General "Canon/Filler" Debate/Discussion

[Dyno]

I'm dismissing EoB for two reasons, 1. Its a game only what if scenario tie in for Dragon Ball Heroes so it has very little relevance to the Dragon Ball manga continuity to begin with and 2. Bardock Special was overwritten by Minus no longer making it in the continuity of the manga by default kicking EoB out of the picture since its a what if scenario kicking off from the out of continuity Bardock Special. Don't know why your brought up the Tarble special as it doesn't contradict anything (So far) and exist just fine as another additional to the manga continuity.

1- Tarble's OVA is a comemoration of an anniversary, so it has very little relevance to the Dragon Ball manga continuity/Vegeta's brother has even less relevance than the Legendary Super Saiyan, which is a plot point of Freeza's saga.

2- Episode of Bardock starts where TV Special ended, and where TV Special ended, is written in the manga as pictured above. Chapter 307.

Don't know why you are talking about "relevance/dismissing" as the "Legendary Super Saiyan Bardock" itself also doesn't contradict anything. And it can be an additional to the manga and Freeza's saga as a whole.

It clearly shows a scene from the special:

Spoiler:

That's because "Bardock vs Freeza" scene from the TV Special is still canon/considered/happened in the manga's continuity...

[lord turbo]

1- Tarble's OVA is a comemoration of an anniversary, so it has very little relevance to the Dragon Ball manga continuity/Vegeta's brother has even less relevance than the Legendary Super Saiyan, which is a plot point of Freeza's saga.

Your first point is utterly irrelevant and just flat out wrong. I'm not taking about Tarble's place in the grand scheme of things, that matters very little here. We are talking about continuities here and the Tarble special counts and takes place in the manga's continuity. it doesn't hurt the special was based off of Toriyama's idea anyway which saw a manga version from him and Ooishi together, doesn't hurt that he was directly referenced in BoGs.

Your second point is equally frivolous as the first if not more so since the story of EoB does not take place in the manga's continuity. its a video game what scenario that ties directly into the universe of Dragon Ball Heroes to explain why Bardock is a SSJ there, the events of EoB by default has little influence on the manga's continuity, nor does Toriyama care about that version of Bardock which differs significantly from his own Bardock introduced in Minus.

2- Episode of Bardock starts where TV Special ended, and where TV Special ended, is written in the manga as pictured above. Chapter 307.

Don't know what you are talking about "relevance/dismissing" as the "Legendary Super Saiyan Bardock" itself also doesn't contradict anything. And it can be an additional to the manga and Freeza's saga as a whole.

The SSJ bardock stuff contradicts the fact Bardock never travelled to the past in the first place, he was outright killed by Freeza in the special and this is outright stated in the narration of that iconic scene taken directly from the Bardock Special in the manga that Bardock was kicked by Freeza, period, not any video game DBH nonsensical what if scenarios. Let alone the simple fact Chilled passed down what the SSJ looked like and did down his family line, yet Freeza has no clue what one looks like or is right before his eyes when Goku transforms into a SSJ identical to what Chilled passed down in his family.

The DB Minus special is the manga's continuity here, not the BS or EoB stuff, you are just going in illogical circles to say other-wise at this point.

[Dyno]

Tarble's OVA became part of the main series after Battle of Gods, before that it was up to personal canon. As it is Episode of Bardock now, that's why I won't prolong here, the fact I consider that OVA canon is irrelevant, I just wanted to point out that an origin of a material is not a matter to consider canon or not. Toriyama had deeply involvement with Dragon Ball Online plot, just an online game, do you consider it part of the main series? No? Then don't tell others EoB is out of the manga because of such invalid reason.

Cool that you mentioned that. Raditz told Kakarot only four Saiyans survived Vegeta's explosion, later on, Vegeta reaffirms with all his strength only four Saiyans survived, and yet... Look, it's Tarble! Vegeta's younger brother!
So, sorry... It's not because it is written "Bardock died" that he truly died. Being too literal only brings you more inconsistency, as you couldn't tell Saiyans can't breathe in space, and yet... We see Bardock and Kakarot out there.

[lord turbo]

I just looked my post an felt I was being rather antagonistic towards you, I do apologize for that. Was having a less than stellar day when i wrote that. I disagree, I've always felt Tarble was part of the main series way before Battle of Gods entered the scene. BoGs just help make it more obvious. I was dismissive of EoB because of its situation. Its an alternate what if story that place in the Dragon Ball Heroes verse just to explain why he's SSJ in the game. It makes little sense to me to use that as proof its set in the same continuity as the manga's universe, even if Minus wasn't created which only further invalidates not only EoB, but the same special its a what if sequel about. Things with Dragon Ball in general is a case by case thing with me, I look at the overall history of something before making a judgement call. DBO gets the same treatment from me that RoF and BoGs does, Toriyama vocally goes out his way to state he's writers these projects passionately with the intent of the taking place in the manga had he continued serialization.

Though that could change depending on how RoF impacts the Freeza portion of DBO.

Cool that you mentioned that. Raditz told Kakarot only four Saiyans survived Vegeta's explosion, later on, Vegeta reaffirms with all his strength only four Saiyans survived, and yet... Look, it's Tarble! Vegeta's younger brother!
So, sorry... It's not because it is written "Bardock died" that he truly died. Being too literal only brings you more inconsistency, as you couldn't tell Saiyans can't breathe in space, and yet... We see Bardock and Kakarot out there.

You could easily chalk up Tarble by Vegeta and the others not being omniscient, Vegeta had a firm belief that Tarble was most likely dead (Plus retcons) which is why he and others said what he did. The thing with Bardock is different since its flat out written in Narration Box that Bardock was killed by Freeza which is a lot different from a character simply being mistaken. Also, neither Bardock or Goku were breathing in space, both were in the stratosphere portion of their respective planet's atmosphere. Toriyama even mentions this for Goku during one of those BoGs interviews of his.

[Hellspawn28]

Episode of Bardock is a what if story since going by what Naho Ooishi.

So I was just absurdly happy and fired-up to be able to draw a Bardock what-if story! I want Bardock to keep playing a big role in video and card games from here on out!

If Episode of Bardock is written as a what if story then it never happen. That's the whole point of being a what if story.

[Dyno]

I just looked my post an felt I was being rather antagonistic towards you, I do apologize for that. Was having a less than stellar day when i wrote that.

That's okay, no problem.

Episode of Bardock is a what if story since going by what Naho Ooishi.

So I was just absurdly happy and fired-up to be able to draw a Bardock what-if story! I want Bardock to keep playing a big role in video and card games from here on out!

If Episode of Bardock is written as a what if story then it never happen. That's the whole point of being a what if story.

Dragon Ball GT has everything pointing to it being non-canon and even so, many people still consider it canon/happened/it is part of the main series.

And yet, it comes from Ooishi Naho. It is not like if Toriyama wants he couldn't add Episode of Bardock because Naho said it is "what-if", on the contrary, she and I would be pretty happy, as Toriyama would set a little of glorious to this character who should be a little more badass than he already is.

[SaiyanBaller22]

What is canon in Dragon Ball? The world may never know...

[Dyno]

What is canon in Dragon Ball? The world may never know...

Everything that happened and/or is, somehow, connected to the manga.

[Sandubadear]

What is canon in Dragon Ball? The world may never know...

A question that no two people will answer in the same way. It's like asking where do we come from and where we will go after dying...

[sintzu]

What is canon in Dragon Ball?

Jaco he galactic patrolman.
Dragon Ball.
Yo son Goku and his friends return.
Battle of gods.
Resurrection F.

Quite simple yet for some reason it's one of the biggest debates among fans.

[Lord Beerus]

What is canon in Dragon Ball?

Jaco he galactic patrolman.
Dragon Ball.
Yo son Goku and his friends return.
Battle of gods.
Resurrection F.

Quite simple yet for some reason it's one of the biggest debates among fans.

You forgot Dragon Ball Minus.

[Dyno]

What is canon in Dragon Ball? The world may never know...

Everything that happened and/or is, somehow, connected to the manga.

Dragon Ball Minus.
Jaco, The Galactic Patrolman. / Bardock vs Freeza scene. (TV Special)
Dragon Ball manga.
Dragon Ball: Yo!! Son Goku and His Friends Returned!
Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods.
Dragon Ball Z: Resurrection F.

It is pretty much this the Dragon Ball canon. Aside from Episode of Bardock, which is up to personal canon. So it is, what I like to call it, "neutral".

[ShaneisMC]

Speaking of Yo Son Goku and his friends return, did we ever actually get any kind of official english release at all? For some reason i think i have a vague memory of Raging Blast being tied to it but i may be completely mistaken.

[Dyno]

No. But Raging Blast 2 features Tarble, so there is the only place where you can hear Tarble's english voice.

[Bullza]

Episode if Bardock isn't canon in any way.

Like Sintsu said it's really all very simple, I don't know why so many people have to make it so complicated. I'm sure half the time it's of fans want certain things to be canon and others not to be.

[Sandubadear]

Canon is: Dragon Ball GT, Dr. Slump, Dragon Ball Heroes, Dragon Ball Goku's Traffic Safety and Dragon Ball Goku's Fire Brigade.

[Mewzard]

Speaking of Yo Son Goku and his friends return, did we ever actually get any kind of official english release at all? For some reason i think i have a vague memory of Raging Blast being tied to it but i may be completely mistaken.

It got legally streamed in English for a short while, that was all we ever got of it.

Do want it dubbed one day.

[Goe]

Hi:

Well, in my opinion, only Toriyama's work is canon. Then, Bardock special from 1990 isn't canon, but Bardock is a canonic character because he appears in 2 panels of the manga. Is a canonic fact that Bardock fought Freezer, but Toma, Serippa, Panbuckin and Toteppo don't exist and Bardock can't see the future. That things are filler. I became a big Bardock fan when i saw that special, so is hard for me saying this, but sadly, is true.

So, only manga, BoG, and Freezer's resurrection are canon. Tarble is mentioned in BoG, but there aren't mentions to Avo/Cado or Gure, so we must wait to assure "Son Goku and his friends return", is canon or not. If Toriyama makes a new film with continuty of that story, we will consider that film canon

About Dragon Ball Minus, I think isn't canon becaue DB Minus is a spin off like Neko Majin.

[Dyno]

What the hell... You said his TV Special is "filler" and yet, you says Minus also isn't part of the main continuity?
Wow...

[Goe]

Yes, I say Bardock special isn't canon. Minus neither.

Bardock Special was written by Takao Koyama, not Toriyama, so can't be canon.

Dragon Ball Minus is part of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman, a spin off, like Neko Majin, that, in my opinion, can't be considered Dragon Ball canon. We can't consider Onio a canonic character because he only appears in Neko Majin (a spin off). In the same way, we can't consider Tight a canonic Dragon Ball character because she only appears in Jaco(another spin off), so Bulma hasn't got a sister. So, if Jaco is not canonic Dragon Ball, Minus (a part of that Spin-off), can't be Dragon Ball canon.