Gotenks and Gohan versus Kid Buu

[fadeddreams5]

Suppose after the fusion wore off for Buutenks, Goten and Trunks actually became liberated inside Buu (Gotenks splitting from inside his pod would have resulted in Goten and Trunks popping out). Inside, they'd do exactly what Goku and Vegeta did, and escape. Outside, after transforming into Kid Buu, Buu would destroy the Earth like normal, only the Supreme Kai would now be helping Gohan, Goten, and Trunks escape (along with Mr. Satan and Dende). They'd meet Goku in the Kai planet, and prepare to battle Kid Buu.

So now, it's (dead) Goku, Gotenks, and Gohan vs. Kid Buu. Would this really be overkill? Or would Kid Buu's incredible regeneration abilities, near infinite stamina, and fearlessness in battle have led to them resorting to a spirit bomb anyways?

[MajinMan]

This is straight up overkill and Buu woulld die in seconds. It doesn't matter how good his regeneration is because a full power kamehameha from Gohan alone would vaporize him like the spirit bomb. People don't really realize the only reason Kid Buu exists is to bring Buu to Gokus level so he can match up with him.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

base Gotenks one-shots Pure Buu.

[Lord Beerus]

base Gotenks one-shots Pure Buu.

No way. Gotenks would need at least SSJ to do some major damage against Pure Boo.

Gohan, on the hand, grinds Boo into dust

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

I'm sure Gohan would finally get around to killing Buu. Gotenks would probably screw around like he did with his entire fight against Buu in the time chamber. Goku would leave it up to them.

That wouldn't have been a bad ending actually, with Gohan saving everyone.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

No way. Gotenks would need at least SSJ to do some major damage against Pure Boo.

Gohan, on the hand, grinds Boo into dust

It's debatable whether Base Gotenks can or not. But SSJ Gotenks should be able to stomp Pure Buu.

IMO:

Base Gotenks (post-RoSaT) >>> SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) >= SSJ3 Goku >= Pure Buu

[fadeddreams5]

No way. Gotenks would need at least SSJ to do some major damage against Pure Boo.

Gohan, on the hand, grinds Boo into dust

It's debatable whether Base Gotenks can or not. But SSJ Gotenks should be able to stomp Pure Buu.

IMO:

Base Gotenks (post-RoSaT) >>> SSJ Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) >= SSJ3 Goku >= Pure Buu

Gotenks without SSJ3 could barely do anything against Super Buu. Kid Buu isn't that much weaker. One could argue he's more or less equal, really.

[dbzfan7]

We have the most logical but boring fight in the Boo arc. Gohan quickly crushes Boo to avoid having what happened last time with Gotenks. Though since they never write a smart character as a...ya know...smart character...I guess Kid Boo absorbs Gotenks again....somehow...cause Gotenks is reckless and shit. That's the excuse they use for the movie so I guess it applies here too. Then Gohan loses even though he'd win logically, cause he's not Goku.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gotenks without SSJ3 could barely do anything against Super Buu. Kid Buu isn't that much weaker. One could argue he's more or less equal, really.

Pure Buu is much weaker than Super Buu. Goku said him and Vegeta were no match for Super Buu, then Goku says he could finish off Pure Buu at FP.

[fadeddreams5]

Gotenks without SSJ3 could barely do anything against Super Buu. Kid Buu isn't that much weaker. One could argue he's more or less equal, really.

Pure Buu is much weaker than Super Buu. Goku said him and Vegeta were no match for Super Buu, then Goku says he could finish off Pure Buu at FP.

As SSJ2s, neither could beat Super Buu. I'm sure as a SSJ3, Goku could stalemate him. I really don't see how Kid Buu could be THAT much weaker that even Base/SSJ Gotenks can beat him.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

As SSJ2s, neither could beat Super Buu. I'm sure as a SSJ3, Goku could stalemate him.

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Why would Goku be talking about Super Saiyan 2 when he can use Super Saiyan 3?

I really don't see how Kid Buu could be THAT much weaker that even Base/SSJ Gotenks can beat him.

Why revert to Kid Buu if Goku is enough to handle Super Buu? The reason Kid Buu was made was that Goku would be able to handle the final villain. Super Buu/Gotenks/Gohan are all in another league.

[Lord Beerus]

Why revert to Kid Buu if Goku is enough to handle Super Buu? The reason Kid Buu was made was that Goku would be able to handle the final villain. Super Buu/Gotenks/Gohan are all in another league.

And even when SSJ3 Goku took on Kid Boo with everything he had, he still couldn't win. And Kid Boo wasn't even fighting seriously half the time.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goku couldn't finish him because his energy was constantly draining from Super Saiyan 3, and Pure Buu had infinite stamina and regeneration, not more actual power than Goku. Goku himself said at full power he could finish off Pure Buu with a Kamehameha.

[fadeddreams5]

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Why would Goku be talking about Super Saiyan 2 when he can use Super Saiyan 3?

SSJ3 Goku would stalemate him even at full power. Given Super Buu's stamina and regeneration, a stalemate = a loss. So yeah, neither could beat him. But that doesn't make him THAT much stronger than Kid Buu.

Why revert to Kid Buu if Goku is enough to handle Super Buu?

Because that'd be boring. Super Buu already got enough screen time. Toriyama wanted to keep things fresh.

The reason Kid Buu was made was that Goku would be able to handle the final villain. Super Buu/Gotenks/Gohan are all in another league.

You're right. Goku could not possibly defeat Buuhan or Buutenks, so Kid Buu was made, from a story perspective, so Goku could compete with him without fusion. That said, I just don't see Kid Buu being that much weaker than Super Buu, or Base/SSJ Gotenks being stronger at all than SSJ3 Goku (SSJ3 Gotenks is, imo). There's just no indication of this. =P

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Not "stalemate" or "put up a fight", no match.

Goku's not one to back down from a fight with a small power disadvantage or because of his energy drain, otherwise he wouldn't have even taken on Pure Buu.

But out of curiosity, where does "Super Buu isn't that much stronger" and "Goku can stalemate Super Buu" come from? What is it based on? You keep saying it like it's a fact....

You're right. Goku could not possibly defeat Buuhan or Buutenks, so Kid Buu was made, from a story perspective, so Goku could compete with him without fusion. That said, I just don't see Kid Buu being that much weaker than Super Buu, or Base/SSJ Gotenks being stronger at all than SSJ3 Goku (SSJ3 Gotenks is, imo). There's just no indication of this. =P

Goku says Super Saiyan Gotenks will be stronger than Fat Buu and himself.

[fadeddreams5]

Chapter: 507 (DBZ 313), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

Not "stalemate" or "put up a fight", no match.

Goku's not one to back down from a fight with a small power disadvantage or because of his energy drain, otherwise he wouldn't have even taken on Pure Buu.

As Kid Buu, they felt they could compete in their base and SSJ2 forms, as Vegeta underestimates him the minute he reverts. They were horrifically wrong. Against Super Buu, Goku knew from the start that as they were at that point, they could not touch him. SSJ3 Gotenks could not beat him, and thus, Goku at full power as a SSJ3, would not be able to beat him either. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to give him a fight, as SSJ3 Gotenks is not leagues above Goku.

But out of curiosity, where does "Super Buu isn't that much stronger" and "Goku can stalemate Super Buu" come from? What is it based on? You keep saying it like it's a fact....

That's just the way I see it. I honestly don't have any manga proof to support my argument. You might be right. I'm not saying it's a fact. But I just don't see how Base/SSJ Gotenks can be greater than SSJ3 Goku. There's nothing substantial that really proves that either. =P

Goku says Super Saiyan Gotenks will be stronger than Fat Buu and himself.

He wasn't going to say the contrary. He hyped up fusion for the longest, but they still ended up losing. In their base, they got pounced by Fat Buu. After ROSAT, they managed to tap into their potential and reach new forms, as well as learn new abilities, but I doubt their base and SSJ states increased so much they'd now be able to beat Fat Buu or even do much better than Majin Vegeta without SSJ3 or, at the very least, SSJ2.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

As Kid Buu, they felt they could compete in their base and SSJ2 forms, as Vegeta underestimates him the minute he reverts. They were horrifically wrong. Against Super Buu, Goku knew from the start that as they were at that point, they could not touch him. SSJ3 Gotenks could not beat him, and thus, Goku at full power as a SSJ3, would not be able to beat him either. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to give him a fight, as SSJ3 Gotenks is not leagues above Goku.

They never said they would compete in their base or Super Saiyan 2 forms. They can sense ki. They even say "we did it!". Why "we did it!" if they barely made him change at all? What says SS3 Gotenks isn't leagues above Goku?

That's just the way I see it. I honestly don't have any manga proof to support my argument. You might be right. I'm not saying it's a fact. But I just don't see how Base/SSJ Gotenks can be greater than SSJ3 Goku. There's nothing substantial that really proves that either. =P

http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8873015&t=8435301

He wasn't going to say the contrary.

And he wouldn't leave it up to them if he knew fusion wasn't enough, considering he could've beat Fat Buu.

He hyped up fusion for the longest, but they still ended up losing. In their base, they got pounced by Fat Buu.

Gotenks never lost to Fat Buu as a Super Saiyan. And Piccolo never felt the need to send Gotenks into the Room of Spirit and Time until Super Buu was formed, which is completely redundant if SS Gotenks was weaker than Fat Buu.

After ROSAT, they managed to tap into their potential and reach new forms, as well as learn new abilities, but I doubt their base and SSJ states increased so much they'd now be able to beat Fat Buu or even do much better than Majin Vegeta without SSJ3 or, at the very least, SSJ2.

Read the link above.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

If Goku says he can't beat Super Boo unless they merge, that means he's weaker. Goku being totally fine with permanently merging to fight a weaker opponent is silly.

Nevermind the fact that Goku outright says they're "no match for his strength", which directly says he's weaker.

[Friezacooler]

Since they haven't trained for this attack, I doubt both Saiyans have enough ki to rival the Super spirit bomb. So they can't deal with pure Buu.

[Darkprince410]

Since they haven't trained for this attack, I doubt both Saiyans have enough ki to rival the Super spirit bomb. So they can't deal with pure Buu.

Given that the Genki Dama had well more than enough ki to destroy Pure Buu, I don't see where you're coming from with that. Given where each were in in relation to Goku, and given Goku's strength in relation to Pure Buu, either would be more than sufficient to easily destroy him.