Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Big Momma]

The Vegeta/Freeza relationship, on the other hand, is almost entirely one-sided. Vegeta's always been a joke to Freeza. He's a pet that occasionally tries to bite back. For all that Vegeta despised Freeza, Freeza just didn't care.

That's why I'd like to see Vegeta get the win. Freeza already see's Goku as a potential threat. To have Vegeta, the one he hasn't taken seriously yet, come out and defeat him would do work to his pride. It would also boost Vegeta. I think the one-sidedness of their relationship would make Vegeta's win that much more satisfying.

[Kamiccolo9]

"That Genkidama idea" actually came from Vegeta. Guess we forgot about that too.

Doesn't make any difference. Goku won. He saved the day. He was the hero.

So, Gohan was the hero of the Saiyan Arc, then. I mean, he's the one who did the finishing blow to Vegeta.

[ekrolo2]

"That Genkidama idea" actually came from Vegeta. Guess we forgot about that too.

Doesn't make any difference. Goku won. He saved the day. He was the hero.

So, Gohan was the hero of the Saiyan Arc, then. I mean, he's the one who did the finishing blow to Vegeta.

Nah, Vegeta is the hero of the Saiyan arc he is the one who got himself crushed by great Ape Gohan after all.

[sintzu]

So, Gohan was the hero of the Saiyan Arc, then. I mean, he's the one who did the finishing blow to Vegeta.

Actually Vegeta did that.

[ShadowWolf87]

Goku gave Freeza enough of his Ki to float away from the planet before it exploded, not enough to survive a planet going Kaboom. It's kinda silly to suggest that little energy would be enough to help him survive that. Plus he kinda USED that energy to shoot at Goku.

Goku giving Cell a Senzu bean was meant both to keep what was technically a tournament fight a "fair fight" and to play head games with Cell, make him think Gohan was a threat, which he was. Gohan, however, then refused to play his part as he hated himself when he let his rage take over. Becoming that cruel scared him. But had he not done that, it wouldn't have mattered.

But yes, Gohan was being shifted into MC status until Toriyama opted to not try to drastically shift Gohan's character.

1. Yet he survived, which kind of makes your entire point moot. If Goku had never gave him the energy in the first place then it's very unlikely he even survives.
2. And I could care less why Goku gave Cell the senzu bean. It was foolish and the blame lies with him for doing it.
3. Shifted is the key word. He may have intended for Gohan to become the MC of the series, but it never happened.

1. Point's not moot as Freeza fired that ki right back at Goku trying to hit him in the back. If anything, Freeza was more drained after that PLUS being blasted by Goku again.
2. It backfired, yes, but it backfired because of someone else. That can't entirely be placed on him. And even then, the worst that happened was Gohan getting kicked around because he refused to draw out his power, and Cell making Cell Jrs (which he probably could have made just as easily without that bean since it didn't drain him much) and 16 being crushed, which... actually was what it took for Gohan to bring his power out anyways. Goku also took a beating during that, along with everyone else. But it certainly wasn't as bad as helping him achieve that level of power in the first place just to stroke his own ego.
3. It actually did happen. It was simply then shifted away again. Gohan was indeed the MC of the Cell Arc, he was the focus, and he's still as much or more significant than Vegeta in terms of characters. The only way that fades is if one takes into account media since the end of Z and everything after Gohan's absorption, such as GT.

[Birusu16]

.....When?

Goku? Fight with Vegeta, Teaches Goten and Trunks the fusion basics. Fight with Buu. Fusion with Vegeta and another fight with Buu. Another fight with Buu where he finally kills him. Gets the last fight with Uub. Gohan? Small fight with Buu and another relatively short fight with Buu. That's it.

[Big Momma]

.....When?

Goku? Fight with Vegeta, Teaches Goten and Trunks the fusion basics. Fight with Buu. Fusion with Vegeta and another fight with Buu. Another fight with Buu where he finally kills him. Gets the last fight with Uub. Gohan? Small fight with Buu and another relatively short fight with Buu. That's it.

Gohan was pretty prevelant in the beginning up until Fat Buu came out.

[Birusu16]

Goku gave Freeza enough of his Ki to float away from the planet before it exploded, not enough to survive a planet going Kaboom. It's kinda silly to suggest that little energy would be enough to help him survive that. Plus he kinda USED that energy to shoot at Goku.

Goku giving Cell a Senzu bean was meant both to keep what was technically a tournament fight a "fair fight" and to play head games with Cell, make him think Gohan was a threat, which he was. Gohan, however, then refused to play his part as he hated himself when he let his rage take over. Becoming that cruel scared him. But had he not done that, it wouldn't have mattered.

But yes, Gohan was being shifted into MC status until Toriyama opted to not try to drastically shift Gohan's character.

1. Yet he survived, which kind of makes your entire point moot. If Goku had never gave him the energy in the first place then it's very unlikely he even survives.
2. And I could care less why Goku gave Cell the senzu bean. It was foolish and the blame lies with him for doing it.
3. Shifted is the key word. He may have intended for Gohan to become the MC of the series, but it never happened.

1. Point's not moot as Freeza fired that ki right back at Goku trying to hit him in the back. If anything, Freeza was more drained after that PLUS being blasted by Goku again.
2. It backfired, yes, but it backfired because of someone else. That can't entirely be placed on him. And certainly wasn't as bad as helping him achieve that level of power in the first place just to stroke his own ego.
3. It actually did happen. It was simply then shifted away again. Gohan was indeed the MC of the Cell Arc, he was the focus, and he's still as much or more significant than Vegeta in terms of characters. The only way that fades is if one takes into account media since the end of Z and everything after Gohan's absorption, such as GT.

1. What exactly suggests the ki blast he fired at Goku was all the energy Goku gave him? You're assuming this. Nothing proves this at all.
2. It's still his fault. He should've never given it to Cell to begin with. The blame lies entirely with him.
3. MC of one arc doesn't make him the MC of the entire series. And no, Gohan certainly wasn't more significant than Vegeta in the Buu arc.

[Tsufuru]

i dont think toriyama decided that vegeta(if) beats freezer and this time vegeta looking down on a beat up goku and not the other way around cuz of some vegeta/freezer/goku relationship.
probably cuz he thought its about time idk.

and yes vegeta deserves to beat freezer cuz of how he humilated him.
you dont know how vegeta will feel when he sees freezer again and with such power.

remembering a hated person is not the same as seeing the person in fron of you and with powers you never thought are possible.

[Hellspawn28]

Then I guess that Genkidama came out of nowhere

It's not Goku's own power. The Genkidama needs to gather energy from other sources. So Goku never beat Buu under his own power.

[ShadowWolf87]

"That Genkidama idea" actually came from Vegeta. Guess we forgot about that too.

Doesn't make any difference. Goku won. He saved the day. He was the hero.

So, Gohan was the hero of the Saiyan Arc, then. I mean, he's the one who did the finishing blow to Vegeta.

Mr. Satan got the credit for that though. I thought we were counting "in-universe credit".

But Goku and Vegeta are usually credited with beating Buu, and Mr. Satan did indeed actually make a large contribution to that win. And Vegeta's contribution to Gohan's win with Cell was also directly acknowledged by everyone reading and Toriyama.

But honestly, why are we so obsessed with "in-universe credit" and act as if the fandom's recognition of a character's accomplishments are irrelevant?

[Kamiccolo9]

.....When?

Goku? Fight with Vegeta, Teaches Goten and Trunks the fusion basics. Fight with Buu. Fusion with Vegeta and another fight with Buu. Another fight with Buu where he finally kills him. Gets the last fight with Uub. Gohan? Small fight with Buu and another relatively short fight with Buu. That's it.

First of all, I said up until the final fight. Half the stuff you listed comes during or after that. Goku WAS the main character at the end of the Buu Arc, no one's denying that.

You're also ignoring a decent chunk of the manga where Goku wasn't present at all, Gohan's fight with Dabura which was much more important than Goku and Vegeta's fights with Babidi's henchmen. Goku vs Majin Vegeta in the manga is so brief that it's practically a blink and you miss it moment, Piccolo spent more time teaching the kids than Goku did.

Over half the arc is spent building up Gohan as the "mightiest in the universe." Gohan is built up as the main character of the arc, up until the very end when Toriyama grinds his development to a screeching halt, and starts with the most poorly written part of the entire franchise.

[ShadowWolf87]

you dont know how vegeta will feel when he sees freezer again and with such power.

I remember what happened last time he saw Freeza with insurmountable power.

Spoiler:

I kid, I kid. But like I said, I can see Vegeta putting up a good effort, but there's no way either of these guys solos.

[sintzu]

Starts with the most poorly written part of the entire franchise.

Goku&Vegeta finally putting their differences aside for the common good was the best way to end the story.

[Hellspawn28]

With the recent info of Freeza's family members makes me wonder if Toriyama forgot about his recent comment about Cold and Freeza being the only mutants? I guess he could add Coola into Freeza's family tree but I think he is likely going to create a new original brother and sister for Freeza. I bet Freeza will end up having a sister named "Frost" or something like that .

[Birusu16]

.....When?

Goku? Fight with Vegeta, Teaches Goten and Trunks the fusion basics. Fight with Buu. Fusion with Vegeta and another fight with Buu. Another fight with Buu where he finally kills him. Gets the last fight with Uub. Gohan? Small fight with Buu and another relatively short fight with Buu. That's it.

First of all, I said up until the final fight. Half the stuff you listed comes during or after that. Goku WAS the main character at the end of the Buu Arc, no one's denying that.

You're also ignoring a decent chunk of the manga where Goku wasn't present at all, Gohan's fight with Dabura which was much more important than Goku and Vegeta's fights with Babidi's henchmen. Goku vs Majin Vegeta in the manga is so brief that it's practically a blink and you miss it moment, Piccolo spent more time teaching the kids than Goku did.

Over half the arc is spent building up Gohan as the "mightiest in the universe." Gohan is built up as the main character of the arc, up until the very end when Toriyama grinds his development to a screeching halt, and starts with the most poorly written part of the entire franchise.

If sitting on your ass for hours is building one up as the mightiest in the universe then quite a lot of people have that in spades. The fact is that Goku has had more fights and more panel time than Gohan had in the Buu arc. And Goku was the one who managed to beat Buu and get the final fight in the manga. Gohan wasn't even present for the Buu fight.

[ShadowWolf87]

Gohan is built up as the main character of the arc, up until the very end when Toriyama grinds his development to a screeching halt, and starts with the most poorly written part of the entire franchise.

I actually kinda liked that move. Really added to the sense of hopelessness when you see the strongest dude out there suddenly outmatched. Was also cool to see a villain actually strategize a way to overcome a power gap rather than merely freak out about it.

[sintzu]

I bet Freeza will end up having a sister named "Frost" or something like that .

We've never gotten a main female villain so that would be interesting.

[Kamiccolo9]

If sitting on your ass for hours is building one up as the mightiest in the universe then quite a lot of people have that in spades. The fact is that Goku has had more fights and more panel time than Gohan had in the Buu arc. And Goku was the one who managed to beat Buu and get the final fight in the manga. Gohan wasn't even present for the final fight.

In case you didn't notice, the whole time Gohan was on his ass....Goku was right there next to him. Except he was doing absolutely nothing.
And again, that's why I said "up until the final fight," which is when Toriyama through logic out the window, depowered Buu, and came up with a stupid plan to get rid of him instead of calling in Gotenks or Gohan to slap him into the sun.

[ShadowWolf87]

Goku? Fight with Vegeta, Teaches Goten and Trunks the fusion basics. Fight with Buu. Fusion with Vegeta and another fight with Buu. Another fight with Buu where he finally kills him. Gets the last fight with Uub. Gohan? Small fight with Buu and another relatively short fight with Buu. That's it.

First of all, I said up until the final fight. Half the stuff you listed comes during or after that. Goku WAS the main character at the end of the Buu Arc, no one's denying that.

You're also ignoring a decent chunk of the manga where Goku wasn't present at all, Gohan's fight with Dabura which was much more important than Goku and Vegeta's fights with Babidi's henchmen. Goku vs Majin Vegeta in the manga is so brief that it's practically a blink and you miss it moment, Piccolo spent more time teaching the kids than Goku did.

Over half the arc is spent building up Gohan as the "mightiest in the universe." Gohan is built up as the main character of the arc, up until the very end when Toriyama grinds his development to a screeching halt, and starts with the most poorly written part of the entire franchise.

If sitting on your ass for hours is building one up as the mightiest in the universe then quite a lot of people have that in spades. The fact is that Goku has had more fights and more panel time than Gohan had in the Buu arc. And Goku was the one who managed to beat Buu and get the final fight in the manga.

Krillin has the second-most manga appearances after Goku, clearly he should be the one to kill Freeza! /sarc


But nah, why are we counting "panel time"? And you may recall, Goku sat on his ass for that exact same amount of time. Longer, in fact. That was Goten and Trunks' hour of having to step up.