Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Birusu16]

The Saiyaman stuff was entirely Gohan.
The Budokai stuff was mostly Gohan, with Goten and Trunks thrown in.
The Early Buu stuff was mostly Goten and Trunks, with Toriyama building up Gohan in the background.
The Mid-Buu stuff was split between Gohan and the other kids.
Goku wasn't the focus of the arc until the very end.

And you are totally ignoring the fact that Toriyama comes out and says that Gohan is replacing Goku as the main character.

Only agree with the first one. Disagree with the other ones. And no, I'm not ignoring it. I'm going with what I see on panel and what I see is Goku being the hero in the Buu arc and not Gohan.

Well yeah, I can see how one would think that if one were to ignore all of the parts where Goku did absolutely nothing.

Believe what you want. At this point I could care less. This argument is off-topic and pointless.

[Tennessaiyan]

He didn't defeat Boo. The Genki Damai wasn't even his ki. It was the Earth's. Goku didnt have energy to push that much ki. Goku didnt kill Boo. Sorry to tell you.

Also Piccolo should have more of a grudge than Vegeta.

Doesn't matter if it was his ki or not. Just like in Battle of Gods: the power he fought with was not his own. However, that time, he lost.

You could say that about Piccolo, but Vegeta has WAY more history with Frieza. Vegeta was psychologically abused and eventually tortured and murdered by the guy who killed his father, family, and entire race. Basically ruined his life. There's a lot of bad blood there.

[Kamiccolo9]

He didn't defeat Boo. The Genki Damai wasn't even his ki. It was the Earth's. Goku didnt have energy to push that much ki. Goku didnt kill Boo. Sorry to tell you.

Also Piccolo should have more of a grudge than Vegeta.

Doesn't matter if it was his ki or not. Just like in Battle of Gods: the power he fought with was not his own. However, that time, he lost.

You could say that about Piccolo, but Vegeta has WAY more history with Freeza. Vegeta was psychologically abused and eventually tortured and murdered by the guy who killed his father, family, and entire race. Basically ruined his life. There's a lot of bad blood there.

Where's the evidence of Freeza abusing and torturing Vegeta before Namek?

[TripleRach]

This discussion is getting pretty off-topic. Actually, it seems like there are multiple arguments mixing together. One about total victories, one about total screen time (or "panel time"), and one about who really deserves either of those things in F. Only the third one is really relevant to the movie, but keeping it relevant is pretty difficult. So maybe we should slow it down.

[Cetra]

He didn't defeat Boo. The Genki Damai wasn't even his ki. It was the Earth's. Goku didnt have energy to push that much ki. Goku didnt kill Boo. Sorry to tell you.

Then remove Super Saiyan Goku from that calculation and lets see what happens.

[Kamiccolo9]

This discussion is getting pretty off-topic. Actually, it seems like there are multiple arguments mixing together. One about total victories, one about total screen time (or "panel time"), and one about who really deserves either of those things in F. Only the third one is really relevant to the movie, but keeping it relevant is pretty difficult. So maybe we should slow it down.

It's like the Hydra. Cut off one topic, and more take its place.

I'm kinda curious about the Freeza being the youngest son as well. I've always liked Cooler, but somehow I doubt he'll be involved.

[Tennessaiyan]

Where's the evidence of Freeza abusing and torturing Vegeta before Namek?

Well, for starters, he was lied to ever since he was a child about what terrible act had been committed upon his race. And if I'm not mistaken, Vegeta stated during his death scene that he would not have turned out the way he was if it wasn't for Frieza. Also, I said eventually tortured. I never implied he had been tortured before Namek.

But back to ON TOPIC (like I tried to bring it back to before) I'm wondering what Frieza's reaction to Trunks not being on the battlefield will be. He stated that he wanted revenge on two saiyans, Goku, and (implicitly) Trunks

[dbzfan7]

Holy crap so many new pages. I was expecting updates, but I didn't come across anything.

This is the first time in Toriyama's work he's been revived after being dead. That's what I thought we we're talking about. Guess not?

Eh not much of a difference considering without his dad he'd have died anyways. I consider it a revival still.

But it was the chapter after he was defeated on Namek. He basically returned 1 second later his defeat.

It may as well have been a revival. He was near death and brought back. People just want to discredit this as to make Freeza coming back not sound like an overused idea.

Why does Vegeta deserve to beat Freeza again? That's the part I'm not getting.

"Who gets to beat the genocidal, world-destroying alien royalty? The OTHER former genocidal, world destroying alien royalty."

Going by real world logic, nothing Vegeta has done since then justifies his past crimes. However, going by DBZ logic, he is now considered pure-hearted and good. ^.^

The other thing is, everyone keeps bringing up Vegeta's relationship with Freeza, but everyone seems to be overlooking Freeza's relationship with Vegeta.

Goku may not have killed Freeza, but he might as well have destroyed him. Mecha-Freeza was a joke, a shadow of his former self. There's enmity on both sides here. That's what makes a good hero/villain relationship.

The Vegeta/Freeza relationship, on the other hand, is almost entirely one-sided. Vegeta's always been a joke to Freeza. He's a pet that occasionally tries to bite back. For all that Vegeta despised Freeza, Freeza just didn't care.

You just gave me a whole new insight to this relationship. You're totally right. Just like Goku and Vegeta's rivalry being so one sided that only Vegeta cares, it's the same with Freeza. Freeza doesn't give a shit about Vegeta at all. He really only cares about Goku, and Goku probably cares about Freeza considering what he has done in the past. So really Goku and Freeza have more beef, while Vegeta might hate Freeza more, but Freeza has no real beef with him.

Also to those dissing the Elder Kaioshin power up, I sure as hell hope you don't support Super Saiyan God as it's even more contrived and exploitable. Goku just had to be in a happy fun time circle to surpass potara fusion, which is far more than what the Elder Kaioshin ritual did for Gohan. Speaking of which, while Gohan "sat on his ass", people were dying. He pretty much had to sit there and understand that while he does nothing, his family and friends are killed.

[fadeddreams5]

This discussion is getting pretty off-topic. Actually, it seems like there are multiple arguments mixing together. One about total victories, one about total screen time (or "panel time"), and one about who really deserves either of those things in F. Only the third one is really relevant to the movie, but keeping it relevant is pretty difficult. So maybe we should slow it down.

It's like the Hydra. Cut off one topic, and more take its place.

I'm kinda curious about the Freeza being the youngest son as well. I've always liked Cooler, but somehow I doubt he'll be involved.

I can see his siblings being joke characters or pansies like Tarble.

I would love to see one of them being a serious fighter who joins the good guys and betrays his clan though.

[ShadowWolf87]

This discussion is getting pretty off-topic. Actually, it seems like there are multiple arguments mixing together. One about total victories, one about total screen time (or "panel time"), and one about who really deserves either of those things in F. Only the third one is really relevant to the movie, but keeping it relevant is pretty difficult. So maybe we should slow it down.

It's like the Hydra. Cut off one topic, and more take its place.

I'm kinda curious about the Freeza being the youngest son as well. I've always liked Cooler, but somehow I doubt he'll be involved.

Might be a way of acknowledging a fan favorite character without directly making the events of those movies canon. I personally doubt it'll be significant though.

[sintzu]

I'm wondering what Freeza's reaction to Trunks not being on the battlefield will be.

I don't think he's going to have time to react to it.

[TheGmGoken]

He didn't defeat Boo. The Genki Damai wasn't even his ki. It was the Earth's. Goku didnt have energy to push that much ki. Goku didnt kill Boo. Sorry to tell you.

Then remove Super Saiyan Goku from that calculation and lets see what happens.

I clearly said Goku didnt have enough energy to push other people ki.

[Cetra]

I clearly said Goku didnt have enough energy to push other people ki.

Which is irrelevant because

a) the restored energy was still Goku's
b) no matter how much energy was used or not it would not have been pushed without Goku

[Sandubadear]

I'm kinda curious about the Freeza being the youngest son as well. I've always liked Cooler, but somehow I doubt he'll be involved.

I think that Freeza will merely say that Goku killed his older brother, and that's it.

People say Cooler isn't canon because AT said "Cold and Freeza are the only abnornally strong mutants..." but Cooler himself said Freeza was stronger than himself until before he found his fifth form, so technically this doesn't contradict.

[ShadowWolf87]

I clearly said Goku didnt have enough energy to push other people ki.

Which is irrelevant because

a) the restored energy was still Goku's
b) no matter how much energy was used or not it would not have been pushed without Goku

But Goku never would have been able to push it without Dende's wish.

It was still far and away a team effort.

But I believe we were advised this was off-topic.

[ShadowWolf87]

I'm kinda curious about the Freeza being the youngest son as well. I've always liked Cooler, but somehow I doubt he'll be involved.

I think that Freeza will merely say that Goku killed his older brother, and that's it.

People say Cooler isn't canon because AT said "Cold and Freeza are the only abnornally strong mutants..." but Cooler himself said Freeza was stronger than himself until before he found his fifth form, so technically this doesn't contradict.

That's... not the only reason it contradicts.

[Cetra]

But Goku never would have been able to push it without Dende's wish.

It was still far and away a team effort.

Which means the "Goku didn't do anything or kill Boo" is wrong nonetheless.

[ShadowWolf87]

But Goku never would have been able to push it without Dende's wish.

It was still far and away a team effort.

Which means the "Goku didn't do anything or kill Boo" is wrong nonetheless.

1. No one said Goku did nothing, just that he by himself got whooped.
2. It's also technically not wrong as basically everyone beat Buu and played a key part in it.
3. Again, I believe we were advised this is technically off-topic.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Holy crap so many new pages. I was expecting updates, but I didn't come across anything.

Yeah, unfortunately that has been the trend for this thread for a while now, silly pointless debates that go on for pages and pages. Luckily the main page is pretty quiet

[Helios518]

All this talk about the spirit bomb made me realize what was stopping Vegeta from helping Goku push the spirit bomb.