Why is there so much dislike for GT?

[dalome]

I agree with most of you except kid Goku.

It felt like detective Conan. Sometimes he act like a kid, and sometimes he look fuc**** badass.
I liked It.

When I watch the endings of GT, It makes me wish that gt could be more like them.
The ending 1 has a nice feeling of space exploration, like vacations. It looked nice.
The endings 2 has more interactions than the show.
And the ending 4 make me feel weird. Like, It is the end. Kid Goku from back looks cool.

[Hellspawn28]

- All the main villains (i.e. Bebi, Yi Xing Long, and Super 17) were generic as ****. With Toriyama, we always get a fresh new major villain, but these guys were all worse than many of the movie villains.

Wait, what? A demon who just wants to rule the world because he is evil, a mutant that wants to rule the galaxy because he is evil, a Cyborg that fights for entertainment and ultimately destorys when he is either bored or confronted with his own defeat, and a demon who just destroys because he is evil are better than Baby?

Sorry but Vegeta, Freeza, Cell and Buu had better personality, development and are more memorable then then Super 17 and Yi Xing Long. Bebi is probably the only main villain in GT that had any type of personality and motivation. The other two villains in GT did not. Vegeta, Freeza, Cell and Buu had personality, depth and good motivations (Super Buu somewhat did). Not to mention they all had good build up and suspense to their apparance while characters like Yi Xing Long show up out of nowhere without any type of build up or development. Not to mention all four villains in DBZ had something memorable about them and even casual people who grew up watch DBZ remembers them today. What do Bebi, Super 17 and Yi Xing Long have? Pretty much nothing.

I do think fadeddreams5 sums up my feelings to GT pretty well. Super 17 is one of the worst villains in the series next to Bio Broli and his saga is easily the worst saga next to the Garlic Jr saga. Super 17 feels unspire and lazy. Every villain in GT was poorly developed and generic. Even characters like Zarbon and The Ginyu Force had some level of personality. I wish I can the same for GT since I forgot about most of the villains in GT until Heroes.

[Cetra]

Sorry but Vegeta, Freeza, Cell and Buu had better personality, development and are more memorable then then Super 17 and Yi Xing Long. Bebi is probably the only main villain in GT that had any type of personality and motivation. The other two villains in GT did not. Vegeta, Freeza, Cell and Buu had personality, depth and good motivations (Super Buu somewhat did).

I cannot discuss with you if there is a discrepancy this big between our opinions about "character depth". Also you did not seem to read my comment properly because nowhere 17 or the Dragons were even mentioned so that is no good anyway. Not to forget I did not even mention Vegeta but Piccolo Daimaoh. And just being arrogant and evil is no better personality. Dragon Ball villains are all very shallow personality-wise. Just because DB and DBZ villains have more screentime to show there evil more colourful they are not really less shallow. They are a bit more of a character but not much.

[Zenkai]

I think many people dislike it because they heard someone say it was garbage and then jumped on the bandwagon themselves. It's like a perpetual cycle.

[kei17]

I think many people dislike it because they heard someone say it was garbage and then jumped on the bandwagon themselves. It's like a perpetual cycle.

I DID think GT was so bad even when I was 7 years old, and I clearly remember how I was talking with my friends about why GT sucks on the way from school. People dislike it cause it's absolutely garbage.

[Kakacarrottop]

I think many people dislike it because they heard someone say it was garbage and then jumped on the bandwagon themselves. It's like a perpetual cycle.

I DID think GT was so bad even when I was 7 years old, and I clearly remember how I was talking with my friends about why GT sucks on the way from school. People dislike it cause it's absolutely garbage.

But you're from Japan right? The "GT sucks" bandwagon is more of an American thing. The show was never popular in Japan to begin with, but in America/English speaking countries it seems people have only started hating on it recently.

[Drayenko]

I rewatched GT recently, and I gotta say. It's bad, really freaking bad. As soon as episode 3 everything starts going downhill real fast.

Totally agree with kei.

[TripleRach]

In ancient times, before FUNimation released GT, there was a big "GT sucks" attitude within the English fandom. Some people had seen it themselves via fansubbed or raw recordings, but most people probably never went through the trouble. So I think back then, there probably was a bit of bandwagon parroting of other people's opinions.

But in 2015, it's so easy to buy the DVDs and watch the show for yourself and form your own opinion. People in this thread have given valid and detailed complaints about GT. The idea that people are still just parroting others' "GT sucks" comments is ridiculous.

I feel like I'm not as negative about GT as most people, but I still haven't watched the last few episodes because the Yi Xing Long fight was boring the hell out of me. I also have numerous issues with the way every character was used, and I have nothing good to say about the Super #17 arc.

[Analytical Delusion]

Can't speak for everybody, but there were a few things preventing me from getting too into the series:

1) Later plots not fleshed out enough, too much happening in a short period of time. Not enough build up/suspense for me.
2) Goku and Trunks seemed completely out of character, personality-wise, from what they were at the end of Z.
3) Lack of emphasis on Uub, and how Gohan was handled in general.

Now, there were some very, very good ideas (though I'm personally not a fan of SSJ4, the return of fusion, Freeza/Cell being reduced to what they were, Piccolo staying in hell, or more Kid Goku at all). If things had been mapped out properly, it could've been an awesome sequel:

• Space exploration/world building, universal Dragon Ball hunting
• Revenge on the saiyans by the original residents of planet Vegeta, Buu/Uub reuniting
• Exploration of the concept of hell (though in retrospect, probably prefer how Movie 12 and presumably RoF handle it), and tying up the loose end of #17
• Consequences for over-dependency on the Dragon Balls (which the Old Kaioshin foreshadowed at the end of the Bui Saga)
• As mentioned earlier in the thread, more fighting in cities, as opposed to vacant fields and such

But instead, it seems like things were incredibly rushed, especially after the Baby arc. Herms had a very informative post here:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 47#p765508

[fadeddreams5]

- All the main villains (i.e. Bebi, Yi Xing Long, and Super 17) were generic as ****. With Toriyama, we always get a fresh new major villain, but these guys were all worse than many of the movie villains.

Wait, what? A demon who just wants to rule the world because he is evil, a mutant that wants to rule the galaxy because he is evil, a Cyborg that fights for entertainment and ultimately destorys when he is either bored or confronted with his own defeat, and a demon who just destroys because he is evil are better than Baby?

I did mention Baby had a good motive and backstory. It's his personality that stinks.

King Piccolo was pretty over-the-top and zany many times. Not to mention, he was the first legit major villain in the series. He is quite literally an embodiment of all the evil inside the individual he split from, so his motives and actions make sense too.

Frieza is already the ruler of many parts of the universe and feels entitled to that role. He's a spoiled, sadistic aristocrat who usually politely interacts with people despite the atrocious acts he's about to commit. Not to mention, his motives in the Namek saga seemed to be inspired by his own fear that a warrior may arise one day to overthrow him. No other villain compares to Frieza in this series, imo. The way he composes and expresses himself. Piccolo was over-the-top evil, but this guy makes him look like a girl scout in comparison.

Cell is unique because his personality changes with every transformation. Imperfect Cell is like an alien in a horror movie. His voice, what he does to the humans, and the way he refers to the androids as his children. His 2nd form is...eh. But moving on to his 3rd form, he becomes the biggest ego trip in the series. Because of the genes he possesses, he has the sadism of Frieza, but is a blood knight like the saiyans. He's constantly referring to himself as perfect, and doesn't really care about ruling or destroying the universe. All he wants is to test out his abilities as the perfect fighter. Blowing shit up is a consequence of that.

And Buu, again, changes personalities with every transformation. Fat Buu is an innocent manchild who was taught that killing is the right thing to do. Super Buu is similar, only he craves destruction because his evil side is in control. And Kid Buu is a psychotic demon who only knows destruction; a disobedient, mischievous child with planet-busting abilities.

We've gone from slightly over-the-top, to sadistic aristocrat, to horror movie villain / massive ego trip, to psychotic child. Does Baby bring anything new to the table? He has an interesting backstory, a good motive, and unique abilities, but he falls flat by being an uninteresting character himself, and nothing we haven't seen before in the series (specifically, the movies). He would have been more powerful if he was genuinely good and everything he did really was for the Tuffles. Also, if he himself fell into the disillusionment that the people he's enslaved really are his people due to his insanity and overwhelming sadness as the last Tuffle King. He wouldn't need to enslave the universe because his goal would be to look after his "people" from saiyans who want to take it all away from him (i.e. Goku). But no, he's just a ****ing asshat that wants everything to be his because he's evil!!! The only thing unique to his personality are his temper-tantrums, which are almost as grating as his dub voice.

[WittyUsername]

I honestly was never part of the "GT is complete garbage" bandwagon. The series as a whole wasn't anything to write home about, but it did have some interesting ideas, and some cool villains, though the execution left something to be desired.

I think the three biggest problems people have with the series are Goku becoming a child again, Goku essentially being the only character that was actually useful in a fight, and Pan's character as a whole.

[FoolsGil]

It's been over ten years since I last watched it, but I remember a scene in the last few episodes of the series, where Gohan, or Goten, and Trunks was explaining to Majuub the fusion dance. Majuub was all up for doing it. The other guys said no, because they were too drained of energy and would be no help and Majuub just went with it. I'm sorry, did everyone forget about K0rin and the Senzu? or all you just pussing out?

That...is a tiny example...of why I dislike GT.

[ABED]

He is quite literally an embodiment of all the evil inside the individual he split from, so his motives and actions make sense too.

You mean his generic motivation to do evil because he's the embodiment of evil.

Cell is unique because his personality changes with every transformation.

I don't think the personality change is a result of the transformation. I think it's just natural that he would change the closer he got to his goal.

Does Baby bring anything new to the table?
Revenge and he doesn't see that his actions are no better than the race that destroyed his.

Also, if he himself fell into the disillusionment that the people he's enslaved really are his people due to his insanity and overwhelming sadness as the last Tuffle King. He wouldn't need to enslave the universe because his goal would be to look after his "people" from saiyans who want to take it all away from him (i.e. Goku). But no, he's just a ****ing asshat that wants everything to be his because he's evil!!!

Unlike Piccolo who killed people because... he's EVIL!!!

I'd rather we not armchair quarterback. Baby's motivations work because even if evil people have some modicum of truth to their POV, they typically don't see the contradictions to their actions.

[Bardo117]

As someone who grew up with GT I clearly remember everybody loving GT cause of the awesome transformations , and the fact that the story is awesome if you don't ask questions

[ABED]

As someone who grew up with GT I clearly remember everybody loving GT cause of the awesome transformations , and the fact that the story is awesome if you don't ask questions

Then you're remembering it wrong. I've read little else but people ragging on it.

[Jackal puFF]

The biggest problem I had with Goku was they totally changed his personality from Z.. Just cause they had him turn into a kid doesn't mean he should still act like a kid you know? He didn't even act like his actual kid self. He was a brat and annoying instead of his charming, funny naivety.

[ABED]

The biggest problem I had with Goku was they totally changed his personality from Z.. Just cause they had him turn into a kid doesn't mean he should still act like a kid you know? He didn't even act like his actual kid self. He was a brat and annoying instead of his charming, funny naivety.

I don't see that at all.

[Drayenko]

The biggest problem I had with Goku was they totally changed his personality from Z.. Just cause they had him turn into a kid doesn't mean he should still act like a kid you know? He didn't even act like his actual kid self. He was a brat and annoying instead of his charming, funny naivety.

I don't see that at all.

Are you serious? Goku is a joke of a character. Everything about him in GT is plain wrong.

[ABED]

Are you serious? Goku is a joke of a character. Everything about him in GT is plain wrong.

I could turn the question around, what about GT was that different concerning his characterization? What was a joke about his character? He's always been childlike.

I feel the hate for GT is completely unwarranted. If we never knew that a new showrunner was taking over a show or if we didn't know the behind the scenes goings on, I honestly think a lot of the crap that shows get when things like that happen wouldn't be nearly as big.

[Drayenko]

He is stupid, annoying, ALWAYS hungry in every freaking episode. And he is clumsy as hell. That's not Goku.
He is the strongest person in the universe at this point, yet he seems to be plain retarded, which he is not. Never has been.

For the hate part, everybody is out of character. It's all about Goku in a way that's not even funny.
I don't care who writes what, it's bad because it's bad.