Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
FortuneSSJ wrote:
If you want to call him something, God is the best word now.
Well in a metaphorical sense sure why not. But remember what lessons DBZ taught us when Kami eyes werent able to keep up with goku speed Remember when Kami actually was sweating when he first met king kai. and later supreme kaioshin's. It just shows how irrelevent this whole god meaning is in DBZ. I'm sure Kami's was just a thrown Name rather than an actual rank. My original concern was whenever or not Toriayam actually was being serious when he meant that goku was a super saiyan god or was the whole god was irrelevant to an actual godly rank and here is what i found out.
The movie battle of gods was called Kami to Kami which means God vs God but toriyama decided to go even further by giving goku an actual god label which is Sūpā Saiya-jin Goddo which pretty much confirms at this point that the whole Goku becoming a god serves a deeper to this whole god thing. And if goku is actually a god then he wouldnt even need to have a physical body to exist! He should be pretty much a deity at that point.
GokuRules987 wrote: \What i don't understand is why would Toriyama try so hard to actually give Goku an official god label.
He isn't. He didn't create the concept, just went in and tweaked it. By his own admission he think it's an "exaggeration".
Is he now trying to say that Goku is now the god of all saiyans?
It doesn't make him a "god" in that way. It's a transformation that gives him the power/strength of a god. It's not a permanent title/status change.
Rocketman(In response to a post about Pandora's Box) wrote:
I sat here for ten damn minutes wondering what the hell God of War had to do with any of this.
Insertclevername wrote:I plan to lose my virginity to Dragon Box 2.
GokuRules987 wrote:Is he now trying to say that Goku is now the god of all saiyans?
It doesn't make him a "god" in that way. It's a transformation that gives him the power/strength of a god. It's not a permanent title/status change.
Well, Goku has absorbed the form's power in his normal form, and he can still transform if he wants on his own, so it is permanent now. Also, the Super Saiyan God has also been called the Kami of the Saiyans.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
The entire concept of "gods" in Dragonball is completely pointless since they aren't that much higher than mortals anyway. I mean when the top of the totem pole (so far) the god of destruction has a much more powerful dude hanging around him that taught him everything he knows, you kind of wonder why fans make such a bit deal about it to begin with.
Goku isn't exactly a "God" in the same vein as Beerus, Supreme Kai, etc (I would mention Whis but we really don't know what he is). He's a mortal with strength in the realm of a god.
Birusu16 wrote:Goku isn't exactly a "God" in the same vein as Beerus, Supreme Kai, etc (I would mention Whis but we really don't know what he is). He's a mortal with strength in the realm of a god.
Super Saiyan God Goku is a god like Beerus, Kaioshin, etc. He is just not in the same level of hierarchy, he is equal to the planetary Kamis (like the Kami of Earth).
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Birusu16 wrote:Goku isn't exactly a "God" in the same vein as Beerus, Supreme Kai, etc (I would mention Whis but we really don't know what he is). He's a mortal with strength in the realm of a god.
Super Saiyan God Goku is a god like Beerus, Kaioshin, etc. He is just not in the same level of hierarchy, he is equal to the planetary Kamis (like the Kami of Earth).
I don't know about the last part about being equal to planetary Kamis, but the rest of this is right, in my opinion.
That's what I never actually got from the movie.
To me, SSJ God is a level of achieving power on different realm, in the realm of Gods and not becoming a God in true sense like Kaioshin or King Kai.
MCDaveG wrote:That's what I never actually got from the movie.
To me, SSJ God is a level of achieving power on different realm, in the realm of Gods and not becoming a God in true sense like Kaioshin or King Kai.
I agree. Goku (and Vegeta possibly?) may have godly power, but it doesn't make them "gods."
mogi67 wrote:I kind of view Dragon Ball the same way I view mythology. It can be convoluted, contradictory, but always a treasure.
Birusu16 wrote:Goku isn't exactly a "God" in the same vein as Beerus, Supreme Kai, etc (I would mention Whis but we really don't know what he is). He's a mortal with strength in the realm of a god.
Super Saiyan God Goku is a god like Beerus, Kaioshin, etc. He is just not in the same level of hierarchy, he is equal to the planetary Kamis (like the Kami of Earth).
Hence my point of him not being a "God" in the same vein as Beerus and the Supreme Kai.
MCDaveG wrote:That's what I never actually got from the movie.
To me, SSJ God is a level of achieving power on different realm, in the realm of Gods and not becoming a God in true sense like Kaioshin or King Kai.
MCDaveG wrote:That's what I never actually got from the movie.
To me, SSJ God is a level of achieving power on different realm, in the realm of Gods and not becoming a God in true sense like Kaioshin or King Kai.
Goku has been above that level since the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.
And if he wasn't an actual god, he wouldn't have the same type of ki that gods have.
CM101Play wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Birusu16 wrote:Goku isn't exactly a "God" in the same vein as Beerus, Supreme Kai, etc (I would mention Whis but we really don't know what he is). He's a mortal with strength in the realm of a god.
Super Saiyan God Goku is a god like Beerus, Kaioshin, etc. He is just not in the same level of hierarchy, he is equal to the planetary Kamis (like the Kami of Earth).
I don't know about the last part about being equal to planetary Kamis, but the rest of this is right, in my opinion.
He is stated to be the Kami of the Saiyans, so that would place him on the same level as all other Kamis.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Here's how I see it; the gods have a completely different type of power than the "normies" (Humans, Nameks, etc). That's why normal people can't sense godly ki. It's in a completely different realm than normal ki. Literally. While in the SSJG state, and afterwards, Goku is now able to access that ki, that power. That doesn't make him a god in the hierarchy of things. Just as far as his power goes. And I don't mean "Power" in the sense of "X is now stronger than Y" (Although it obviously does do that for Goku). I mean, as I said before, it's just a different kind of power than mortals have.
Rocketman(In response to a post about Pandora's Box) wrote:
I sat here for ten damn minutes wondering what the hell God of War had to do with any of this.
Insertclevername wrote:I plan to lose my virginity to Dragon Box 2.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
I'm new here, read some pages on this thread and I have a couple of questions about it:
- Will we get major spoilers about the story in this sunday or just some big info?
- Or the major spoiler about the movie will come only in March 30?
- Questions like "Will Vegeta be the one to defeat Freeza?", "Will Freeza die again in this movie?" will be answered in that day?
Thanks
We will be getting big plot info, and SaiyaJedi will be answering fan questions, so that has the potential for big spoilers, though theu will likely give spoiler warnings. It will come March 30, and those questions will most certainly be answered.
Also, welcome!
Hi! My name's Abel, and I'm pretty awesome.
VegettoEX wrote:
Abel is pretty awesome.
SaiyaJedi wrote:
Abel is the best contributor to this forum ever! He's the true Julian #1
Herms wrote:
Abel is so awesome that I forgot how to speak Japanese.
Abel Taylor wrote:We will be getting big plot info, and SaiyaJedi will be answering fan questions, so that has the potential for big spoilers, though theu will likely give spoiler warnings. It will come March 30, and those questions will most certainly be answered.
Also, welcome!
Thank you!
Well, I think I going to stay a little off in this thread when this happens, I'll save myself until the movie debuts in my country
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Rarely post, but when you do, it's a link to something relevant. lol
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Remember when Kami actually was sweating when he first met king kai. and later supreme kaioshin's. It just shows how irrelevent this whole god meaning is in DBZ. I'm sure Kami's was just a thrown Name rather than an actual rank. My original concern was whenever or not Toriayam actually was being serious when he meant that goku was a super saiyan god or was the whole god was irrelevant to an actual godly rank and here is what i found out.
