New "Remastered Box Set" Information

[Deus ex Machina]

We'll see. I'll just say it's not the answer I would be seeking, and I'm kind of insulted that they're trying to pass things off as they are.

-Corey

I think that's Funimation's mission statement: Insulting the intelligence of our customers since 1997!

[MajinVejitaXV]

I think that's Funimation's mission statement: Insulting the intelligence of our customers since 1997!

Well, I'm just sad because I actually had a positive experience with FUNi recently.

I bought Samurai 7 at Best Buy via the LE sets, and my copies of Volume 1 & 3 had ruined covers because the security seals were placed over the coverart and ripped them, and my Volume 3 was missing a booklet.

One of the reps at FUNi, who goes by the moniker 'FuniRepBlue', sent me new covers and the booklets with some extras via 2nd day delivery, and when one of those covers was defective too, sent me her own copy of the cover because all their covers in stock had the same problem. She sent that next day delivery.

So...stellar customer service (at least this woman), but whoever is making the technical decisions and giving the explanations to be disseminated needs to be fired. This is not only a bad decision from a technical standpoint (then again, it's probably the same people who choose to make Goku's gi scorch the phosphors on my plasma and not even use a full DVD's space for encoding), but to lie outright to the consumers when there's such a wealth of evidence to contradict their claims...bleh.

-Corey

Edit: And to think, I used to despise FUNi with a passion (yeah, I've been around since 1997, but my hatred really grew in 1999 with the new dub, and the DBZ DVD's), but later loved how they handled other properties as they matured. Here I thought they'd bring that maturity back to the property that made them famous...guess not X_x

[Tenken]

Edit: And to think, I used to despise FUNi with a passion (yeah, I've been around since 1997, but my hatred really grew in 1999 with the new dub, and the DBZ DVD's), but later loved how they handled other properties as they matured. Here I thought they'd bring that maturity back to the property that made them famous...guess not X_x

Funny you mention that...I was thinking the same thing. Yu Yu Hakusho DVDs came out soon after DBZ's started and were done soo much better (hell...they EVEN HAD INSERTS!). Its almost hard to believe they came from the same company (unless you listen to the dub, heh).

[Li'l Lemmy]

Eh, I'm not trying to show off, I'm just stating fact.

Oh, I know. It's me who's showing off, actually-- showing off my complete incompetence when it comes to just this sort of thing.

And yes, time will tell. However, so far, I'm less than impressed with FUNi's damage control. Yes, they are technically telling the truth about more picture if they had the masters corrected so they don't have to zoom in on the picture to hide overlay problems and so forth...however they're completely negating that action (~4-5% lost by the initial zooming vs. ~20% lost by letterboxing) by letterboxing the animation when it wasn't produced in a manner as the movies were to minimize if not eliminate loss of footage.

Okay, now I think I understand this a little better. See, it's all those damned terms that send my mind into a tizzy.

Well, who knows what's going to happen between now and February. While I can understand that some of us are going to be upset over the loss-vs-gain ratio (whatever that may actually turn out to be), the fact of it is that for anyone who doesn't particularly mind the apparent illogic of their decision-- not that there's anything wrong with being an absolute and logical purist, of course-- these boxed sets will still be more convenient than the DVDs we have now and have a fair shot at looking better too.

But will they actually be better? That's hard to say, because the real truth of it is that we know next to nothing about the new video and audio except for what few snippets we've been given, which realistically are just not enough on which to form a proper opinion; we don't know if FUNimation is going to use a new encoding sequence or produce the usual results that many of us have grown to abhor, we don't know if an eight-episodes-per-disc compression is going to diminish their remastering efforts, we don't know exactly what the finised product will look like when it plays-- basically, we just don't know much of anything, and aside from people like you who are making actual use of logic to make their even-handed determinations, there's so much speculation and rumor flying around that we all may as well be monkeys flinging our own shit.

So just a reminder: Nothing's changed. Without an example picture, we still have dick, people.

And to think, I used to despise FUNi with a passion (yeah, I've been around since 1997, but my hatred really grew in 1999 with the new dub, and the DBZ DVD's), but later loved how they handled other properties as they matured. Here I thought they'd bring that maturity back to the property that made them famous...guess not X_x

This new journey of theirs is having a shaky start, admittedly. But there's still time between now and February for more explanations and developments to surface. Whether or not we'll be happy with them is another story, but still . . .

[KinoFourpaws]

I doubt it, remember, this is Funi, the same cheap bastards who got Faulconer instead of the original BGM.

A little candy for you guys who have a special predilection for the original Japanese music (and don't have too much of a problem with the dub voices, hahah). One of the features available on the remastered box sets will be the ability to select the Japanese score to listen with both the original Japanese AND the dub dialogues.

The footage has also apparently been remastered in HD format (though whether we're talking about the Dragonbox remasters, it hasn't been mentioned), and the entire Vejita saga is slated for release in February of next year at the price of fifty dollars. I'm not sure if you guys consider that very cheap, but considering we're talking about high-quality, uncut footage, it might seem a very reasonable price for those of you who are sitting on the edge of your seat waiting to get this stuff.

There's some more information available on this on Kyle Hebert's LiveJournal, which is where I found out about all this. ----> http://gohanvox.livejournal.com/84226.html

I hope that helps you guys some! And sorry if I'm posting stuff that other people have already mentioned... I was feeling a bit too lazy to go through all the posts here.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Well, who knows what's going to happen between now and February. While I can understand that some of us are going to be upset over the loss-vs-gain ratio (whatever that may actually turn out to be), the fact of it is that for anyone who doesn't particularly mind the apparent illogic of their decision-- not that there's anything wrong with being an absolute and logical purist, of course-- these boxed sets will still be more convenient than the DVDs we have now and have a fair shot at looking better too.

Agreed. Anything can happen between now and February. My only hope is that they didn't have the 1080p masters actually made in widescreen, in which case we're screwed.

Funny thing is, while I expected some backlash, almost 95% or so of posts on all the anime forums seem to go, "Oh awesome, remastered DVD's!...wait, widescreen? But it's a full screen show." The ability for all these people to see how something is wrong here does me proud

The other 5% are still grasping that even though it was 'remastered' in 1080p it's gonna be a regular DVD (read: 480i/480p) disc. They'll get it someday I suppose ;p

-Corey

I hope that helps you guys some! And sorry if I'm posting stuff that other people have already mentioned... I was feeling a bit too lazy to go through all the posts here.

Already covered earlier in the thread, but thanks for the attempt.

[Deus ex Machina]

After reading over Kyle Heberts blog, I feel somewhat reassured. Shrinking the over-all picture to add the black wide-screen bars is still better than chopping off the top and bottom of the screen. I guess it will all come down to how the final product actually looks. For right now, I'm cautiously optimistic. DragonBall Z in widescreen is very tempting...

[Li'l Lemmy]

Agreed. Anything can happen between now and February. My only hope is that they didn't have the 1080p masters actually made in widescreen, in which case we're screwed.

Eh? MajinVejitaXV, are you actually planning on picking this up? In fact, I do think you mentioned somplace earlier that you might. But why? Oh, wait . . . let me guess. For the subtitles?

Funny thing is, while I expected some backlash, almost 95% or so of posts on all the anime forums seem to go, "Oh awesome, remastered DVD's!...wait, widescreen? But it's a full screen show." The ability for all these people to see how something is wrong here does me proud

Even the people who are dub-centric. It's true! The DBZ fan has become savvy in his old age, and it's not just the Japanese fans who feel free to complain anymore. Combine that with the fact that we're getting these re-releases in the first place, and it's like stepping into a twisted version of the future that I never would have imagined could come true.

EDIT:

After reading over Kyle Heberts blog, I feel somewhat reassured. Shrinking the over-all picture to add the black wide-screen bars is still better than chopping off the top and bottom of the screen. I guess it will all come down to how the final product actually looks. For right now, I'm cautiously optimistic. DragonBall Z in widescreen is very tempting...

Yeah, wasn't that nice of him to explain as best he could?

Even I was left wondering when I initially heard people talk about FUNi chopping up the screen. But since they're not actually taking a knife to it without making some modifications first, well . . . I'm certainly willing to wait and see exactly how it turns out.

[sangofe]

From FUNi's forum:

What you will actually be getting with the digitally remastered and restored DBZ episodes is more of the viewable film that was not used for traditional 4:3 TV version.

Yeah, but...the gets ugly and stretched!

[MajinVejitaXV]

Eh? MajinVejitaXV, are you actually planning on picking this up? In fact, I do think you mentioned somplace earlier that you might. But why? Oh, wait . . . let me guess. For the subtitles?

I considered buying it at first for a couple of reasons. A remaster job sounded intriguing, and some of the features sounded like they'd be worth a try (English voices, Japanese OST?). Not to mention, I'm pretty sure I could find the box for ~$25 online or via friends who have employee discounts at entertainment stores.

Plus, while subtitles are nice (I'm learning Japanese myself, little by little, so I'm not so concerned about subs so much), the idea of having the English version as a comparison piece for relatively cheap (if I could get them for $25 each, and they keep the episode counts similar, that's only ~$200 for all of DBZ stretched out over the release schedule) struck me as interesting, especially if this is FUNi's definitive "Here's the best we've got" version.

I may still get it, just waiting until all the sets are out and littered all over Ebay or Deep Discount DVD. Funny thing is, even though I own the whole series and am not dependent on FUNi for my Dragonball needs, I still have the heart of a screwed over North American customer who bought FUNi's first couple of years worth of discs (even when I didn't have DVD player, mind you) and care about the releases.

-Corey

[Li'l Lemmy]

Funny thing is, even though I own the whole series and am not dependent on FUNi for my Dragonball needs, I still have the heart of a screwed over North American customer who bought FUNi's first couple of years worth of discs (even when I didn't have DVD player, mind you) and care about the releases.

Specifically, that is why I asked. A passing interest I would have expected, but it didn't seem logical that someone who owns all five Dragon boxes should invest so much of his attention in the current American releases, let alone hint that he's considering making a purchase of them.

That's not me saying you're some sort of elitist; I would never. It's merely the way the logic played out in my head.

Now I see that it's because you're hoping all these years later that FUNi will show signs that they're not the same company that burned us before; that there might be substantial improvement in how they handle DragonBall, and of course this right here is their definitive and ultimate chance to show how much they really care-- about both the series and its fans.

[MajinVejitaXV]

BTW, forgive the double post, but I wanted to share this. Keep in mind, this is based upon the trailer FUNi released being an accurate representation of the new box(es).



Overlaid these two pics, from FUNi's DVDs (per someone on AoD) and FUNi's trailer. Not only is it cropped, but they did alter the OAR to try and fit it to a 16:9 frame. So, while stretching a 4:3 image to fit 16:9 doesn't bug me on my TV (excellent scaler, thank you Pioneer), I know it'll kill some to have the DVD's actually formatted that way leaving no choice coupled with the letterboxing.

I don't get it. On the plus side, it looks like FUNi *is* working on the color saturation issue.

-Corey

[Li'l Lemmy]

Hmm. Yes, I just saw this over on the AnimeonDVD forums. Thanks for putting it together!

It's definitely nice to have an idea of what the final product could look like, but-- as you just said-- this is assuming that the trailer is in fact an accurate representation of their widescreen effort . . . and personally, I'm loathe to count it as such at this point.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Hmm. Yes, I just saw this over on the AnimeonDVD forums. It's definitely nice to have an idea of what it could look like, but-- as you just said-- this is assuming that the trailer is in fact an accurate representation of their widescreen effort . . . and personally, I'm loathe to count it as such at this point.

Agreed, and I reserve final judgment until the discs go gold, just figured I would share my conjecture based on what we've been given so far.

I'm gonna call it a night, more bitching and moaning tomorrow. Everyone take care

-Corey

[Li'l Lemmy]

But I was having fun! You with your constant explanatory bitching, and me looking like the proverbial dub-centric pussy in constantly defending FUNimation and feeding off my own hopelessly misguided optimism . . .

(I know that's what you're all thinking.)

[InfernoSoul]

Wow. Sometimes I wish I could just leap into a technical conversation like this, because regardless of which of you is actually correct it really looks at though you guys have some sense of what you're talking about. But the more I look at it, the more . . . hurting my brain feels looking at . . . things . . . you say.

Ow! Me brain hurt bad!

[...]

Well, as you said many times before-- time will tell. I still want to see what the actual film looks like to get the best possible idea of what we're in for, be it in motion or just a comparative screenshot.

Eh, I'm not trying to show off, I'm just stating fact. Most forms of digital media have to conform to set specs (DVD's comply with the specs set forth by the DVD Forum, audio CD's conform to the 'Red Book' standard, etc) in order to assure maximum compatibility across the board. I mean, imagine what a mess it would be to design hardware if there was no set specification for things

And yes, time will tell. However, so far, I'm less than impressed with FUNi's damage control. Yes, they are technically telling the truth about more picture if they had the masters corrected so they don't have to zoom in on the picture to hide overlay problems and so forth...however they're completely negating that action (~4-5% lost by the initial zooming vs. ~20% lost by letterboxing) by letterboxing the animation when it wasn't produced in a manner as the movies were to minimize if not eliminate loss of footage.

We'll see. I'll just say it's not the answer I would be seeking, and I'm kind of insulted that they're trying to pass things off as they are.

-Corey

Edit - Someone says on AoD that it's 4-5% lost by FUNi's zooms, so I changed my figure. If someone can prove one way or the way, please do.

Eh, same here not trying to show off or anything. Just having a tech discussion. Anyways back to the whole 1080p thing here is where I got that WMV HD compression thing on DVD's Majin;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1080p

"1080p and near-1080p content has also been released on regular DVD-ROM disks using WMV HD compression. Although these titles could not be viewed for a while in normal DVD players, they can be played back by some current generation DVD Players (such as the Kiss DP-600), and can be viewed on a Windows-based computer with a (recommended) 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 processor or equivalent CPU, among other hardware requirements"

The only logic I can come up with is they would have to use the 720 X 480 resolution. Then you would have to have a DVD player that can upscale that image to 1080p. That is including that you have a HDTV that supports 1080p. So I am very stummped how they can put 1080p episodes on a regular DVD(that doesn't support that format) not only that but if they do the files sizes would be huge for a DVD. However unless this compression method they use not only makes for better quality image but also keeps the file sizes down. You seem to be a bit more knowlegable in this area then me. What are you thoughts on this?

[ect5150]

The only logic I can come up with is they would have to use the 720 X 480 resolution. Then you would have to have a DVD player that can upscale that image to 1080p. That is including that you have a HDTV that supports 1080p. So I am very stummped how they can put 1080p episodes on a regular DVD(that doesn't support that format) not only that but if they do the files sizes would be huge for a DVD. However unless this compression method they use not only makes for better quality image but also keeps the file sizes down. You seem to be a bit more knowlegable in this area then me. What are you thoughts on this?

In short, they can't. Only the mastering process was done in 1080p. Upscaling doesn't add any information to the picture signal, thus won't be any different from 480i/p ...

I mean 1080p is a progressive image at 1920 × 1080 resolution, where DVD is just 720 x 480 interlaced. The extra space for that is overwhelming to place on a DVD (which would have to be done with MPEG2).

And on another note, I don't believe the junk about he widescreen. People that own the original cells would have noticed if it wasn't 4x3 as someone has already said. I think it is a goof, but that it was intentional so they may use that footage on future generations of TVs.

[tarsonis]

I'm just hoping the whole widescreen thing is a mistake, because as people have pointed out, you can't go from 4:3 to any wider aspect without either squeezing the picture, or cropping off the top and bottom, neither of which would be good.

[MarcFBR]

When Funimation is talking about HD it is ONLY related to the remastering and their 'master' digital copy, scanned from said remasterings.

The disks will be normal DVD disks, they will not be in HD, period. They MIGHT be in 480p, which we don't know. These releases will in no way be in HD, it is simply used in reference to how the 'cleaned' masters were scanned (or how the dirty masters were scanned before digital cleaning depending on any of numerous ways).

Even if you have an upscaling to 1080p DVD player its still 480i/p content being UPSCALED, not 1080p video content.

And encoding their digital masters at 1080p in no way means it needs to be widescreen (just to be clear about that), the middle could be the video with the sides having black pillarboxes. But from the trailer it is clear that what they mean is cropping the top and bottom for a widescreen 'effect', it is as much widescreen as me saying hi to VegettoEX in the chatroom makes me VegettoEX, the show was ANIMATED in 4:3, and as anyone who has seen any DBZ cels can tell you, it's unlikely, if not impossible, that Funimation has a magical 16:9 print with more art on the side that no one has never seen nor heard of before (I'm not saying theres not ANY extras on the sides of Funi's prints, just not enough to do widescreen without heavy cropping).

As for the rep saying you see more and loose nothing, bullshit, he is either lying or confused.

[InfernoSoul]

I know what "UPSCALING" does no need to shout. I said the only logic I could figure out how they are getting the image to 1080p on DVD would only be if you had a upscaling DVD player. Which ofcourse isn't going to be that actual 1080p HD image which we have already discussed in our last posts(the links to the wiki/snice dvd only supports 720 x 480). In the trailer it says remasterd in HD from the original Japanese masters. Which could leave you to believe you would be getting DBZ in HD the 1080p HD encoding not a DVD interlaced encoding, which would be super sweet. However I suppose if it is on DVD then HD wouldn't be possible maybe an up in quality but not HD standards. All this discussion and theories on this is getting us nowhere. I suppose like everyone else we will have to wait and see what is going to happen. ^_^