Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
ShadowWolf87 wrote: Who said drastically? I said significantly.
Which nothing implies either, so your point is moot.
Drastically implies by a massive amount.
Significantly implies it was enough to be noticeable and have an effect on him.
Not moot even a little.
Significant
-Having or likely to have a major effect; important: a significant change in the tax laws.
-Fairly large in amount or quantity: significant casualties; no significant opposition.
Which means you're saying he was weakened by a large amount, which absolutely nothing implies. All that's implied is that he's weakened. Not that he's weakened by a large amount. So yes, your point is moot.
dbzfan7 wrote:Boo fucking hoo for them. Freeza utilized his advantage of being able to breathe in space, while Vegeta can not. In the end he failed.
Did Gotenks win too when he was beating the shit out of Boo, and then his time ran out? Super Boo took advantage that Gotenks has a time limit. That's not cheating, that's playing smart.
Yes, he failed, but he certainly didn't have all the tools, so get that garbage out of here. Power and advantage doesn't mean jack shit if he can't breathe in space, so saying he had all the tools plus the power and the advantage and still lost is outright wrong.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Still 18 days until the opening in Japan, you guys think TOEI are done promoting? I hope not I want a glimpse of the Blue Super Saiyan.
Toei literally created a hype train for the movie. I think they've advertised it enough but more promoting never hurts. I also want to see Blue Super Saiyan God, too.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Still 18 days until the opening in Japan, you guys think TOEI are done promoting? I hope not I want a glimpse of the Blue Super Saiyan.
We still have Dragon Ball Heroes. At anytime they will update it.
dbzfan7 wrote:Boo fucking hoo for them. Freeza utilized his advantage of being able to breathe in space, while Vegeta can not. In the end he failed.
Did Gotenks win too when he was beating the shit out of Boo, and then his time ran out? Super Boo took advantage that Gotenks has a time limit. That's not cheating, that's playing smart.
Yes, he failed, but he certainly didn't have all the tools, so get that garbage out of here. Power and advantage doesn't mean jack shit if he can't breathe in space, so saying he had all the tools plus the power and the advantage and still lost is outright wrong.
I'm not gonna waste my time going back and forth with this. One fought a full power being and lost possibly due to interference, and still could have lost if he wasn't strong enough. The other lost while he was stronger against a weakened foe and with a power advantage, but was outsmarted and defeated. If you think that's the same, good for you then. I as well as a bunch of others don't see it that way.
Vegeta is allowed to take advantage of Freeza's weakness and fatigue, but Freeza isn't allowed to take advantage of Saiyan physiology for some reason.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Did Vegeta look good when he killed Rikum and Butta when they were knocked out? Or did Goku look better by making them his bitches. In this case. Vegeta could not beat a weaken foe.
RandomGuy96 wrote:If 18's part is as kei17 presents it, and I have no reason to doubt him/her, then this movie just crossed the line from "bland, illogical, and bad" to "bland, illogical, and insultingly bad". It makes no sense at all from an in-universe point of view, since 18 is like a hundred times stronger than Krillin, and is supposed to be the dominant one in the relationship to begin with. I see no reason for her to stay back; it's even less logical than Goten, Trunks, and Buu staying out of it, even though they're all stronger than her.
To be fair, 18 DOES say "but I'm far stronger than you," and Krillin says he's fine because he's still thinking that Freeza is very weak at the point.
Well, that doesn't make any more sense. If he thinks Freeza won't be a threat at all (which explains why Roshi and Ten showed up, at least), then he has no reason to order his wife not to come when she wanted to. And she has even less reason to listen.
Gonstead wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:What would actually seeing a plot in motion affect when someone already knows the plot and dislikes it?
Because you will actually be experiencing the main product for yourself to determine if what is said about the movie holds true instead of relying on hearsay, trailers which aren't representative of the full complete product and very, VERY basic and nitpicky details at best.
Surely at some point in your life you have watched a movie and had a vastly different opinion on a movie than someone else has or at least viewed something and came to the same conclusion as another person without seeing what others have said, right?
But hey, it's your own fault for spoiling yourself on the plot and if you choose to not watch it, I'm certainly not stopping you from doing so. Just note you have nobody else but yourself to blame.
There's a difference between basing your opinions on other people's opinions, and basing your opinion on information about the film. I know the plot, premise, characters, etc. of the film. I dislike all of them, and know that these elements pretty much make a movie. Therefore, I dislike the movie. Actually watching the film gives me next to no new information with which to base an opinion on.
I was never planning on watching it in the first place.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
GokuRules987 wrote:Guys do you think Goku is going to turn evil in the next movie?
Because when Goku killed Freeza, Sorbet said that everything is going according to the plan and he even interfered during their fight to make Goku take the final blow at Freeza instead of Vegeta. Do think Goku killing Freeza might somehow taint his pure heart or place a curse on him allowing Sorbet to take control of Goku. And maybe we're going too see Vegeta in the next movie fight against evil Goku?
You can't be seriously... Julian said that Sorbet dies before Freeza does.
NO! watch this video it shows what exactly happens at the end of the movie and sorbat actually witnesses Freeza die and said everything was going according to the plan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH9KCskB0Xw
Ugh, dude. That's a video made by UnrealEntGaming. Never, and I mean NEVER, use his videos as a source of information. There's absolutely nothing credible about his channel; he simply uploads gameplay footage with a sensationalized title about whatever the new hotness is to gain views. How anyone can uses these videos as a primary source of DB information is well beyond me. The kid goes out of his way to deliberately spread false information just so he can earn revenue off of his videos. Case in point, the quote, unquote "review" of Battle of Gods he did back in 2013 where he stitched together a fake summary of the film using official information and fan speculation. If you know anyone else that actively watches his videos, tell them to unsubscribe. I'm not saying this to be mean, I just don't want more people to end up disappointed.
With that out of the way, I must say I'm really looking forward to seeing this in a theatre. While many of us like the franchise for character reasons and other stuff like that, it's hard to deny that fighting is one of the series' main draw. There are so many casual fans, who simply grew up watching this show as another action cartoon, that will go and see this and I think it's gonna be really cool to have them treated to a movie that's 90% of what made the series special to them. If this is anything like BOG, it'll definitely be a crowd movie. Pure fun.
Last edited by DragonBoxZTheMovies on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All this was Vegeta the one that won is maiking me sick even I think Vegeta lost and he's my favorite character.
Besides that would it be correct to say Goku came from a different timeline? like he came from a timeline that Freeza destroyed Earth but went back to prevent that in a new timeline.
Last edited by Helios518 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheGmGoken wrote:Think of it as a reversed Ginyu Force.
Did Vegeta look good when he killed Rikum and Butta when they were knocked out? Or did Goku look better by making them his bitches. In this case. Vegeta could not beat a weaken foe.
Of course he did. Vegeta looked amazing taking out the beaten Recoome and Burter. Much better than Goku who fought them.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I'm just glad Toei is treating Dragon Ball how it deserves.
The movie seems to have got better treatment than BOG animation wise. Kei confirmed it was superior too.
I already had that idea by the trailers, but a confirmation is always good. I will judge it with my own eyes, when I see it, later this year (so far away).
Said that, now lets aim for the 4 Billions goal, so the next one can be even better. Always move forward.
Last edited by FortuneSSJ on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheGmGoken wrote:I honestly wonder if such a negative reaction is Vegeta's role in here. Though I'm curious on why Vegeta couldt stop Freeza attack.
Same way Goku could not on Namek, I guess.
Lord Beerus wrote:
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Still 18 days until the opening in Japan, you guys think TOEI are done promoting? I hope not I want a glimpse of the Blue Super Saiyan.
Toei literally created a hype train for the movie. I think they've advertised it enough but more promoting never hurts. I also want to see Blue Super Saiyan God, too.
Though I am shocked they did not even tease the new SS. I guess Golden Freeza may have been enough and they wanted to leave a surprise.
TheGmGoken wrote:Think of it as a reversed Ginyu Force.
Did Vegeta look good when he killed Rikum and Butta when they were knocked out? Or did Goku look better by making them his bitches. In this case. Vegeta could not beat a weaken foe.
Of course he did. Vegeta looked amazing taking out the beaten Recoome and Burter. Much better than Goku who fought them.
Exactly. Badass! Here he just failed. Which isn't impressive.
But you gotta remember. Vegeta cheated to kill Rikum and Butta. They couldn't defend themselves.
dbzfan7 wrote:I'm not gonna waste my time going back and forth with this.
Then don't. I could care less. I don't find your arguments particularly compelling anyway.
One fought a full power being and lost possibly due to interference, and still could have lost if he wasn't strong enough. The other lost while he was stronger against a weakened foe and with a power advantage, but was outsmarted and defeated. If you think that's the same, good for you then. I as well as a bunch of others don't see it that way.
One didn't have the opponent blow up the planet in an effort to defeat him. The fact is that Vegeta DID NOT in anyway have all the tools necessary to win. Having all the tools necessary to win would imply he would be able to breathe in space seeing as blowing up the planet has always been a legitimate option with Freeza. He cannot.
Saying Goku had a better showing because Freeza didn't blow up the planet in his fight while he did against Vegeta is absolutely laughable, but you seem to like those arguments so I'll let you get back to it.
bleed0range wrote:
Well at this point they're both major players in the story
Yes vegeta is a major character but goku is still the protagonist.
bleed0range wrote:and it doesn't always have to be Goku who wins.
He doesnt have to get the minor wins but the big ones? yes ofcourse, or else what the hell story are you telling??
The only exceptions to this was with him against cell , which was set up this way to end the series on a positive note, that his son would carry on his legacy. And him against beerus, where even though he lost, his fighting skill was still a major reason as to why the earth was saved, so he won, though indirectly.
Last edited by Friezaa! on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The dude makes stuff up for views, classic case of it. Likes to title videos like there's been some hints or evidence Broly is going to come back in this or that movie and then it just turns out to be him talking about how they could do it and how cool it would be. Taking everything he says with a grain of salt is the best course of action.
UnrealEntGaming is one of the most popular DBZ channels on You Tube! Hes has over 150k subscribers and 99 percent of his videos are purely dedicated to dragon ball. He also gets help from a lot of reliable DBZ sources and brings his fans the most accurate newest updated information.
You know, you may be onto something. The Branch Davidian Church sure seemed popular, and you never hear those guys complain about anything.
TheGmGoken wrote:Think of it as a reversed Ginyu Force.
Did Vegeta look good when he killed Rikum and Butta when they were knocked out? Or did Goku look better by making them his bitches. In this case. Vegeta could not beat a weaken foe.
Of course he did. Vegeta looked amazing taking out the beaten Recoome and Burter. Much better than Goku who fought them.
Exactly. Badass! Here he just failed. Which isn't impressive.
But you gotta remember. Vegeta cheated to kill Rikum and Butta. They couldn't defend themselves.
I know he didn't fight them at full power. He also sneak attacked Guldo. I bet Guldo would have paralyzed Vegeta and killed him too if Vegeta wasn't such a cheater poopie head trying to fight for his life.
Fuck Freeza right. How dare he use an advantage against Vegeta while Vegeta is allowed to use a few advantages on him. The nerve of that guy.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I also want to see Blue Super Saiyan God, too.
