Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[UpFromTheSkies]

Everyone's becoming very negative towards the film and AT, kinda makes me wonder if this really is a DB-FAN forum or an ANTI-DB FAN forum.

This happens with almost every franchise that has an enthusiastic, devoted fan base, especially the franchises that took a long hiatus and then returned, such as Star Wars. Those kind of fans are very difficult to please. If things are changed they complain, if things aren't changed they complain, and the writer is always destroying their beloved franchise.

[kei17]

What was up with #18, btw? Instead of saying that Krillin was cool, it would be far more helpful if she went to help him. She is stronger, after all... No logic there.

As I've already stated, 18 once says she will fight instead because she's far stronger than Krillin (she does say so,) but Krillin's still thinking the situation is not serious and Freeza isn't strong at the point, and he says he's fine just alone. As a result, 18 isn't aware of the threat and has to take care of her daughter. It was not that illogical that 18 didn't join the fight.

It could have been more interesting with her, but considering the antagonist and the protagnists they chose, they probably wanted to spotlight the characters from early arcs this time.

[SansrivaaL]

Everyone's becoming very negative towards the film and AT, kinda makes me wonder if this really is a DB-FAN forum or an ANTI-DB FAN forum.

This happens with almost every franchise that has an enthusiastic, devoted fan base, especially the franchises that took a long hiatus and then returned, such as Star Wars. Those kind of fans are very difficult to please. If things are changed they complain, if things aren't changed they complain, and the writer is always destroying their beloved franchise.

Gotcha, this is my first time actually joining an enthusiastic, devoted fan base I'm kinda surprised, and I thought the people from youtube are scary, this takes things to a whole new level. So basically whatever AT does people will still find its flaws and complain....

[shinmaru]

Goku lets Freeza hit him directly with his death beam and

Spoiler:

....
Now the question: Is Goku now too weak that he can't take a weak ki blast when he doesn't defend? Or the plot sucks

Fans suck these days.

It was filler, but still Krillin throwing a rock at SSj Goku Head when he is relaxing.

Bejita lowers his Ki so Krillin can blast a hole through him to get a Zenkia power up.

[Saiga]

That's a pretty unfair and inaccurate way to put it. Not all fans are identical, even the critical ones, so generalizing like that doesn't really work.

The whole "no matter what Toriyama does, the fans will complain" is ignoring that it's very likely different fans complaining in either scenario and then using that to complain against all fans with criticisms in a grossly inaccurate way.

I'm really tired of all the people coming up with their own explanations and reasoning for why people complain. It's just a bunch of bullshit generalisations and I don't see how it adds anything at all to the discussion.

[mAcChaos]

Why does everybody talk about these fights like they are a WWE/UFC match? It doesn't matter who won or lost. They are just parts of the character's story.

[rereboy]

As I've already stated, 18 once says she will fight instead because she's far stronger than Krillin (she does say so,) but Krillin's still thinking the situation is not serious and Freeza isn't strong at the point, and he says he's fine just alone. As a result, 18 isn't aware of the threat and has to take care of her daughter. It was not that illogical that 18 didn't join the fight.

I beg to differ. #18 would always be more useful than Krillin in any conceivable situation. Freeza being as strong as he was or stronger is irrelevant to their usefulness and #18 would always be far more useful, whether it is at fighting minions or Freeza himself.

Not to mention that #18 actually is stronger than the level that Freeza had back then, while Krillin should still be weaker than that.

So, that explanation fails to explain why Krillin goes and #18 stays behind.

[Sparko33]

Why does everybody talk about these fights like they are a WWE/UFC match? It doesn't matter who won or lost. They are just parts of the character's story.

Because fans of the 2-3 (if you count freeza) protagonists are trying to fight/figure out who was the strongest in terms of power level in this movie; and we don't have a lot of information to determine that to be honest, all we can really say is that Goku/Vegeta were stronger than Freeza in terms of power level but their character flaws led to them losing before the time rewind. What we can REALLY take out of this movie is that 'mind > matter' and that both characters have to work on their flaws.

[UpFromTheSkies]

That's a pretty unfair and inaccurate way to put it. Not all fans are identical, even the critical ones, so generalizing like that doesn't really work.

Have you interacted with fans from other series? It's completely accurate. They would really like to have the series that they are fans of frozen in time and placed behind glass so no one can ever touch it again... and they can admire it forever, and complain that it ended.

[mAcChaos]

Why does everybody talk about these fights like they are a WWE/UFC match? It doesn't matter who won or lost. They are just parts of the character's story.

Because fans of the 2-3 (if you count freeza) protagonists are trying to fight/figure out who was the strongest in terms of power level in this movie; and we don't have a lot of information to determine that to be honest, all we can really say is that Goku/Vegeta were stronger than Freeza in terms of power level but their character flaws led to them losing before the time rewind. What we can REALLY take out of this movie is that 'mind > matter' and that both characters have to work on their flaws.

No I mean stuff like, people asking what Vegeta did to "deserve" a win. In WWE it makes sense because they are real people who put in their dues, and can get promoted, and people like to see them get rewarded for their hard work.

But DBZ is a story. There's nobody "deserving" anything, it's just what happens in the story. All the events are just meant to show us different parts of the character's personalities and be exciting. Not a commentary on the character's worthiness.

[vegitot]

Goku lets Freeza hit him directly with his death beam and

Spoiler:

....
Now the question: Is Goku now too weak that he can't take a weak ki blast when he doesn't defend? Or the plot sucks

Fans suck these days.

It was filler, but still Krillin throwing a rock at SSj Goku Head when he is relaxing.

Bejita lowers his Ki so Krillin can blast a hole through him to get a Zenkia power up.

Manga isn't filler. Oh,Bulma can hurt Goku by slapping him Goku should cry about these things and miss his old days
Vegeta let Krillin kill him. What's strange?

[rereboy]

Manga isn't filler. Oh,Bulma can hurt Goku by slapping him Goku should cry about these things and miss his old days
Vegeta let Krillin kill him. What's strange?

Bulma hurting Goku is played off for laughs.

Krillin hurting Goku with a rock was because Goku was completely relaxed, almost sleeping and nowhere near a battle.

Krillin hurting Vegeta was because Vegeta lowered his defenses on purpose since he wanted to be hurt by Krillin.

Goku getting wrecked by a laser ring was because he apparently and randomly decided to lower his defenses while a battle was going on.

[Noah]

"Off-Screen" training? Ok, so you're taking ideas from this movie which you consider non-canon and using it in one that will be? Let's say I hated BOG and said it was non-canon because I hated it and I ended up loving this movie and want it to be canon. Would that really make sense considering there are characters and ideas from the past film? Nope. However you can consider whatever you want, I'm just throwing some Ideas out there.

I think you missed the point, you couldn't because BoG was the first movie to ever introduce recurring characters to future movies, so if you want to say that BoG isn't canon and RoF is then you'll have a hard time trying to explain why Beerus and Whis are present.

He has it when Uub arrives. And it was outright stated that Mystic changed Gohan's personality, turning him colder and willing to fight, so making Gohan a chump again contradicts the manga.

Mind if I ask if you had a manga/anime pic showing this?

I think it's pretty evident that Toriyama completely ripped up and tossed out End of Z. There is nothing that can be done to even make that work as Uub would be no where near worth Goku's time.

For sure. Goku would obliterate Oob with all that newly achieved God-powers and post training with Whis, I can't see how this is going to fit EoZ.

Yep. A weakened Freeza cause he was too chicken shit to fight like a true Saiyan. Pretty sad when the low class shows more saiyan pride than the Prince.

Hell, even in GT, Vegeta wasn't treated as a fool like this, I don't see the point he being scared of Freeza anymore.

...
Now the question: Is Goku now too weak that he can't take a weak ki blast when he doesn't defend? Or the plot sucks?

The plot indeed sucks.

[vegitot]

Manga isn't filler. Oh,Bulma can hurt Goku by slapping him Goku should cry about these things and miss his old days
Vegeta let Krillin kill him. What's strange?

Bulma hurting Goku is played off for laughs.

Krillin hurting Goku with a rock was because Goku was completely relaxed, almost sleeping and nowhere near a battle.

Krillin hurting Vegeta was because Vegeta lowered his defenses on purposes because he wanted to be hurt by Krillin.

Goku getting wrecked by a laser ring was because he apparently and randomly decided to lower his defenses while a battle was going on.

He doesn't let Sorbet kill him,does he? Or else he is too weak now

[Sparko33]

Why does everybody talk about these fights like they are a WWE/UFC match? It doesn't matter who won or lost. They are just parts of the character's story.

Because fans of the 2-3 (if you count freeza) protagonists are trying to fight/figure out who was the strongest in terms of power level in this movie; and we don't have a lot of information to determine that to be honest, all we can really say is that Goku/Vegeta were stronger than Freeza in terms of power level but their character flaws led to them losing before the time rewind. What we can REALLY take out of this movie is that 'mind > matter' and that both characters have to work on their flaws.

No I mean stuff like, people asking what Vegeta did to "deserve" a win. In WWE it makes sense because they are real people who put in their dues, and can get promoted, and people like to see them get rewarded for their hard work.

But DBZ is a story. There's nobody "deserving" anything, it's just what happens in the story. All the events are just meant to show us different parts of the character's personalities and be exciting. Not a commentary on the character's worthiness.

I agree, some people just like to associate themselves with certain characters I guess, which is why they go all 'fanboyism' mode on everything.

I wonder whatever happened to the good old days where everyone would just enjoy DBZ like when we were kids; nowadays all I see is power level talk and character fanboys fighting. Don't think AT ever intended for this to happen, thank God he'll never see some of these comments because he'd definately decline working another movie again.

[rereboy]

He doesn't let Sorbet kill him,does he? Or else he is too weak now

It doesn't kill him but apparently it wrecks him enough to leave him at Freeza's mercy.

[VegettoEX]

I'm flabbergasted why people have a problem with the shot-through-the-heart thing.

The whole setup with Whis early on foreshadowed how Goku leaves himself open. Goku left himself open. He got shot. Through a vital organ.

He had a heart disease before, too. Disease of the same vital organ. It's already been established that damage to the heart is a serious problem.

To be consistent, if you have a problem with one, you have to have a problem with both. Do you?

[Doctor.]

Personal changes I’d make to the movie, based on the synopsis:

Spoiler:

- Increase the number of soldiers. Seriously, since when is 1k a threat? Bump it up to 10k or 100k and then maybe the Z fighters are forced to actually have a little trouble.

- So you want me to believe that various Ki locating specialists, who sensed Goku and Boo fighting in a different dimension, can’t sense when two huge powerlevels approach Earth? Not even the GOD of Earth who’s supposed to oversee things and be alert to these kinds of things? No! Add some kind of cloaking device to Sorbet’s ship, that hides their Ki while they’re on Earth. It’s much more believable that they’d find the DBs that way.

- Increase Freeza’s training time. This is obvious; I can accept the whole excuse that he’s a prodigy and whatnot, but at least make his training longer, like a year at least. Also show it. Even if it’s something generic like gravity training, at least show us the kind of training Freeza will put himself through in order to get revenge.

- Explain Golden Freeza. I mean, what the hell? We don’t know anything about it, what is it? How did Freeza know how to achieve it? Is it the reason why first form and final form Freeza are so strong, did he manage to use part of its power in those forms like SSJG? Does every race have a transformation that they can access or are the Saiyans and Freeza just special?

- Nitpick, but I think that Freeza asking the Z-fighters for Future Trunks would have been a cool interaction, he speaks about getting revenge on both Saiyans but then is obsessed with Goku the rest of the film.

- Cast of characters chosen are fine. I can understand 18 not fighting. Trunks and Goten would make for some good interactions between them and Freeza, but I don’t mind it much that they were left out. Mr. Boo, however, is a must. Freeza mentions him, it would provide us with great interactions between the two and we haven’t seen Mr. Boo fight in a loooong time.

- I can understand why they left Boo and Gotenks out and why they nerfed Gohan, they would get rid of the army too easily, I get that. But if you think they’re too powerful, don’t nerf them, make the opponents more powerful instead. Increase the number of soldiers like I said; this movie was a perfect opportunity to introduce a few new interesting characters like the Ginyu Force but we only get Tagoma, who gets killed very early on, and Sorbet. Add like 4 new guys, the new Ginyu Force or something. Have them be new recruits from different dimensions or something, or they trained along with Freeza to increase their power. One at SSJ2 level would be fine for Mr. Boo, one at Perfect Cell level for Piccolo and the other two at like 50% Freeza level for Kuririn and Tenshinhan.

- Do not disrespect Gohan, don’t forget about his ultimate power-up. While everyone else deals with fodder soldiers and the new Ginyu Force, let ultimate Gohan stomp first form Freeza for a while, and then proceed to get stomped (or an even fight, either or) by final form Freeza when he transforms. Then Gohan doesn’t have a good moment at the cost of Piccolo’s dignity like in this movie, and he doesn’t immediately get one shot. He also keeps his title of strongest non-fused and non-deity Z fighter; the whole scene of Freeza almost killing Gohan can be kept.

- Why were they sparring their opponents? Only Goku has been worried with that in the past, and he has let go of that habit, then why is everyone doing it now? Is it just to say they’re holding back and that’s why they have a bit of trouble? Is it just to make Freeza look badass by killing his own men? I can appreciate the second option, but it’s really out of character for people like Piccolo to spare his opponents when he has never done that before. Let them kill them, geez.

- More info on SSJG. It’s such a cheap transformation that they can abuse so easily. If they sensed Freeza’s ki, why didn’t Gohan and the others ask to do the ritual? Just to be sure they’re ready if Freeza - no, if any threat ever comes to Earth again. There’s no drawback to SSJG, if they fail to absorb the Godly Ki, just re-do the ritual until they get it right. Add some restrictions to it, damn. Make it so that beings with Godly Ki can’t participate in the ritual, and since there’s only Trunks, Goten, Gohan, Pan, Bra and Vegeta left, they could only do the ritual to one more person (Vegeta ofc). This also allows for a further ritual if F. Trunks ever comes back or Tarble returns to Earth.

- Better explanation on the Blue SSJG. It’s “Super Saiyan fused with Super Saiyan God” but we already saw Goku turning SSJ in BoG. Is it like a mastered form? How did they achieve it? Does it have a time limit? If they can turn Blue Super Saiyan God now, does it mean they can turn into the normal SSJG at will too?

- Why the hell does Freeza believe Vegeta still has some loyalty left? I understand if he asks it one time and lets it go when Vegeta says no, but he kept insisting throughout their fight. It seems like forced lines just so that Vegeta can admit he likes Goku or whatever.

- I like that Golden Freeza has a drawback, but don’t make the fights so one-sided. Freeza was literally a punching bag the entire fight. Make G. Freeza vs Goku an even fight until Goku gets distracted and let G. Freeza hit Vegeta with a few good hits, even if the latter has the advantage.

- What the hell was Sorbet’s ring all about? It seemed like it had so much potential from the trailer and in the film it only serves to shoot one beam, what?! And it comes out of nowhere as well, with no mention prior of it in the film (not in the summary at least). Why does he need a ring, does it hold some type of special power? Can he not use Ki? The ring could have been a great tool, it has been a long time since someone in DB has used items. In my opinion, the ring should have some type of ability like absorbing Ki in a specific area (the entire battlefield, just exclude Freeza as I’m sure he won’t like it). Something like 2% every 5 minutes or something.

- And with the above in mind, now it would make sense for Sorbet to actually manage to hurt Goku. There have been cases of weaker characters hurting stronger characters in the past, but this is like Mr. Satan hurting SSJ Vegetto, it doesn’t make any sense. If Sorbet’s ring had some kind of Ki absorbing ability and then could convert it into beams, then it’d make sense for him to hurt Goku, as he’d actually have part of Mr. Boo’s and Gohan’s Ki incorporated into it. Not enough to actually hurt Goku when he’s with his guard up, but when he’s distracted it works. Either that, or make G. Freeza pull a Piccolo Jr. and shoot a death beam through Goku’s chest when he though Freeza was dead.

- Change the ending completely. Get rid of that stupid plot device that made Freeza a joke. Have Freeza die not in a way that completely humiliates his character. Let him suicide by blowing up Earth and killing everyone. Let Whis save those that were on the battlefield (Jaco, Bulma, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Roshi, Boo, Gohan, Piccolo). Vegeta, Goku and Beerus don’t need saving because they’re strong enough to survive Freeza’s blast and since they’re actually Gods now, it’s about time Goku and Vegeta got over their weakness of not being able to survive in space. If there’s a good excuse as to why now they can when they couldn’t before it’s definitely Godly Ki. Have Goku lament for his inability to save everyone and say it’s all his fault; have him also ask Whis to turn back time and then have Whis refuse because Goku needs to take responsibility for his mistakes, which will make his character a very harsh teacher when he needs to be. Either go to Namek and make a wish or, like I said before, come up with an excuse as to why the Namek balls don’t work and have Whis offer Goku and Vegeta a way to go to another universe to use their Dragon Balls. This way, there's a cliffhanger for the next movie, this ending allows closure for Vegeta (it’s only debatable because Trunks died in the blast, but he will obviously resurrect him the future) while simultaneously giving him his moment to shine, Goku also gets a time to shine for a while, Freeza’s resurrection isn’t pointless, he doesn’t get completely humiliated and his death accomplished something.

Not trying to sound pretentious NOR am I trying to give the impression that I could write a better movie than Toriyama, of course not that's never my intention. However, these are some changes that I would personally make to the film, while keeping the same premise, if I was in charge of the script. Everything I didn’t change from the synopsis, either I like or don’t mind.

[rereboy]

No I mean stuff like, people asking what Vegeta did to "deserve" a win. In WWE it makes sense because they are real people who put in their dues, and can get promoted, and people like to see them get rewarded for their hard work.

But DBZ is a story. There's nobody "deserving" anything, it's just what happens in the story. All the events are just meant to show us different parts of the character's personalities and be exciting. Not a commentary on the character's worthiness.

A story isn't real but it has characters with motivations, personality, goals and so on, within a plot. Which means that every story is its own little universe.

So, obviously, people who follow these stories and these characters and all their traits and struggles, have an opinion regarding what they deserve.

If it wasn't like that, why do we cheer for the heroes of the stories? Isn't it because, in our opinion, they deserve to win? If it wasn't because of that, then we wouldn't have any good reason to not cheer for the bad guys. As such, I don't follow your point.

[SansrivaaL]

Manga isn't filler. Oh,Bulma can hurt Goku by slapping him Goku should cry about these things and miss his old days
Vegeta let Krillin kill him. What's strange?

Bulma hurting Goku is played off for laughs.

Krillin hurting Goku with a rock was because Goku was completely relaxed, almost sleeping and nowhere near a battle.

Krillin hurting Vegeta was because Vegeta lowered his defenses on purposes because he wanted to be hurt by Krillin.

Goku getting wrecked by a laser ring was because he apparently and randomly decided to lower his defenses while a battle was going on.

He doesn't let Sorbet kill him,does he? Or else he is too weak now

Whis while training Goku said he is too relaxed and over confident in his abilities, he was looking down on a worn down Frieza he thinks the battle is done,he was being over confident and didnt expect anything can hurt him since Frieza was down so he probably lowered his ki, we all know how important ''Ki'' is to DB verse. Also that ring may have something special in it since that wasnt a normal ki blast, its from a ring and I'm sure AT did that on purpose so that Goku can logically get injured from a grunt.