New "Remastered Box Set" Information

[Li'l Lemmy]

If the Japanese audio is mono (which is single channel audio), then how is it possible that the dub can use ONLY the BGM? Is it because FUNi just dubbed the Japanese track with the English voices?

That's assuming there is no dub music track.

I'm not so sure the dub music will be excluded. While I certainly wouldn't take this as completely solid, there is someone on one of the other message boards who claims to have gotten in touch with Mr. Faulconer and been told that his studios are being compensated to use his music on these new season sets.

I'm not sure how much credit I give this little annecdote, since it's likely to be a whole two boxes before Faulconer's music even becomes an issue. But perhaps all this has been planned in advance-- meaning that if it is true, I don't see why the first two sets would contain no dub music only for the latter sets to introduce Faulconer's later on.

So, I'm branching out and asking you guys which arc of the series you'd get if you could only choose one. For me, I guess it would be the latter of the Cell Saga. Then again, I'd love to see Trunks whooping Mecha-Freeza or Goku staring at awe after Kuririn explodes... ugh, there's just too many stuff in the series to choose!

I wouldn't choose. If I could only have one, then I'd rather have none. I don't think I could bring myself to pick one particular piece of the series and let the rest alone . . . it would drive me insane.

[Eclipse]

As epic as this release is, I'm sure there are those of you (myself included) that seriously don't have the money to get every frickin' season set that FUNi'll be cranking out. So, I'm branching out and asking you guys which arc of the series you'd get if you could only choose one. For me, I guess it would be the latter of the Cell Saga. Then again, I'd love to see Trunks whooping Mecha-Freeza or Goku staring at awe after Kuririn explodes... ugh, there's just too many stuff in the series to choose!

I've got no clue. I've barely seen ANY of the series (I feel so ashamed ), but if anything, I'd pick the Cell Saga box sets. Good stuff, even if the early Android episodes are a little on the sad side =D

[SatoSky]

If the Japanese audio is mono (which is single channel audio), then how is it possible that the dub can use ONLY the BGM? Is it because FUNi just dubbed the Japanese track with the English voices?

I'm sure that FUNimation gets a track with the BGM alone. Can anybody verify this?

[fps_anth]

If the Japanese audio is mono (which is single channel audio), then how is it possible that the dub can use ONLY the BGM? Is it because FUNi just dubbed the Japanese track with the English voices?

I'm sure that FUNimation gets a track with the BGM alone. Can anybody verify this?

They must...how else are they going to implement the Japanese music?

Also, I've been thinking....during the whole "Mind....Power....Ki" flashback, does anyone think that they will keep the vocals in the song, or only use the instrumental? I mean, to casual watchers, it will seem weird to hear Japanese vocals....but isn't the Japanese music with the English dub dedicated to us hardcore fans? What do you think?

[Li'l Lemmy]

Also, I've been thinking....during the whole "Mind....Power....Ki" flashback, does anyone think that they will keep the vocals in the song, or only use the instrumental? I mean, to casual watchers, it will seem weird to hear Japanese vocals....but isn't the Japanese music with the English dub dedicated to us hardcore fans? What do you think?

If we count what FUNimation did with the original DragonBall series as a "definitive" example of their plans for vocal songs with regards to the upcoming DBZ season sets' and their English audio over Japanese BGM option, we should consider that the dub of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai used the Mezase Tenkaichi ("Aim to be the Greatest on Earth") music untranslated and in its entirety during the preliminary matches-- so it has in fact been done before.

(Why it was later removed during the Goku vs. Kuririn fight, of course, I have no idea whatsoever.)

[ect5150]

You guys probably don't need much more convincing, but some people over on the Funi forums do. Here is a set of screen shots I worked up showing the cropping affect. Most people are making the argument that you won't miss most of the action, which is true, but there are moments when the entire picture is needed... I'm sure others can post similar moments if needed.

Cropped
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=471603

Uncropped
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=471604

Feel free to show to others on other forums who are non believers. There is just no way there is that much extra image to fill any extra space on the edge. But the point of the above cropping is to show when it can hurt.

[King31]

Hey guys... long time reader, first time poster.

I must say I'm very exicited for this release, regardless of any controversy surrounding the video transfer or widescreen presentation. To be rather honest, I'm almost looking forward to seeing the series in widescreen. It will appear more "cinematic" in a way. I doubt FUNImation would have embarked on this mission had they known it would only be posible by drastically cropping the picture. I'm sure the end result will look just fine, and we'll all get over it once it's on our shelves.

I must say I'm looking forward to the new dub. Now don't get me wrong, I have NEVER cared for the majority of FUNI's U.S. cast when compared to their original Japanese counterparts... but I'm very curious as to how it will compliment the original soundtrack. I'm a huge fan of those first three Pioneer movie dubs and although their voices were indeed much better than FUNI's, it will be a relief to finally see a respectable english dub of the actual series. (Now all they have to is re-write the entire script and I'll be a happy guy )

Still, it's hard to complain about this release. It just feels right this time.

[SatoSky]

You guys probably don't need much more convincing, but some people over on the Funi forums do. Here is a set of screen shots I worked up showing the cropping affect. Most people are making the argument that you won't miss most of the action, which is true, but there are moments when the entire picture is needed... I'm sure others can post similar moments if needed.

Cropped
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=471603

Uncropped
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=471604

Feel free to show to others on other forums who are non believers. There is just no way there is that much extra image to fill any extra space on the edge. But the point of the above cropping is to show when it can hurt.

Thanks for the comparisons, but we don't definitely know how much of the image will be cropped out yet. Though I must say that I hope it won't be that much.

[DBW]

. . . if you still have those Dragon Box images for Tanooki here, that'd be great.

No problem...it looks like these shots are from the raw film source (I took them quite a while ago).

FUNimation:

Dragon Box:


FUNimation:

Dragon Box:

Also, do you think this set will have the Japanese next episode previews?

I don't know. I'm more nervous about the credits actually. If they're cropping the images then the lyrics on the opening credits will be cut in half (or maybe out completely). This makes me question whether they're even getting the credits at all...

[theoriginalbilis]

If the Japanese audio is mono (which is single channel audio), then how is it possible that the dub can use ONLY the BGM? Is it because FUNi just dubbed the Japanese track with the English voices?

Most anime come with 2 audio tracks. A vocal track and a music/effects track. If a show is recorded in 5.1 surround or even mono, those tracks still exist.

That's how most anime companies are able to dub over voices without altering the M & E track. There are exceptions to the rules (like Voltron, where they replaced voices, music, and SE)

Just becuase FUNimation didn't use the M & E track for their DBZ dubs, doesn't mean they didn't have it. I mean, DB did have the original M & E track, did it not?

[Blitzen]

To be rather honest, I'm almost looking forward to seeing the series in widescreen. It will appear more "cinematic" in a way.

No it won't. I mean, assuming you've got a standard TV, sure, you'll have black bars. What won't stop bugging you is the fact that the animation is made for TV (not cinematic at all) and in general eyes and 'important' stuff will be cut out.

I doubt FUNImation would have embarked on this mission had they known it would only be posible by drastically cropping the picture.

Sure, they wouldn't be able to release it in widescreen had they known the ony way to release it was via cropping, but it doesn't need cropping! It's still a TV show, a relativley stiffly animated one from Japan. Anyone who takes more than a minute or so to see the comparisons or hunt them out will know that they're being bullshitted about.

I'm sure the end result will look just fine, and we'll all get over it once it's on our shelves.

Here's the thing though- it won't. It's completely and totally unjustifiable, and for FUNimation to pull this after years of negligent treatment, when everything finally seems to be going in the right direction, is a stupid punch to the face.

So before it gets put out, I want to complain. I want FUNimation to know my greivances. I want them to try and fix this before it becomes a permenant problem. If they have to delay the release to get it back to fullscreen, I won't mind, assuming it's gone that far. I'm still on the fence about this but I'm seriously dissapointed they'd do it. The movies are one thing, they were meant to have the tops and bottoms chopped off. TV series though, no, it's not. It's also a cut, too, and as this is supposed to be a 'definitive, way it was mean to be seen' uncut version, then it's absolute crap.

[BrollysKin]

We still don't know for SURE that they plan to do it like that, do we?

[Blitzen]

We still don't know for SURE that they plan to do it like that, do we?

Right now they've shown no indication that this is an error in communication or that they;ve registered it as a negative, so for the moment it counts as true. The reason people are complaining is because it is much easier to rectify this when it's in preproduction. Post production requires replacements and shit and is generally harder.

[Snail]

I wouldn't mind it if this is the way it will be, and if they do decide to have all of the footage cropped, then the real question is why?

If the answer has already been explained through technical terms regarding a dvd's capabilities, etc. etc. then it wasn't clear enough to understand why, or simple enough to understand for that matter.

My guess would be that it is a part of a whole marketing plan. As I had mentioned before included within another post, they'd probably plan to release the 'full-screen' editions after a majority of the series had been released through season sets. Either that or, they save the whole full screen announcement a year or two later ( or even years after..) they're complete the season set releases.

But it's inevitable, most of us will fall into this trap, whether it be widescreen or not. Funi would most likely release another Dragonball Z set, at an even better, affordable price, and with a nifty box art that all of us are craving for as well, of which will surely lure all of us in to purchase those fine items.

It's as if they deliberately screw up their Dragonball, Z, GT dvds on purpose. The other anime they dub, and release in sets all look pretty awesome. All in uniform, and affordable as well.

Any how, what do you guys think? why the hell would they crop each frame, and eliminate footage, what's the reason? Did they think it looked good...to them? maybe?

Oh Funi, I love and hate you at the same time.

[Azure]

Most anime come with 2 audio tracks. A vocal track and a music/effects track. If a show is recorded in 5.1 surround or even mono, those tracks still exist.

Just because FUNimation didn't use the M & E track for their DBZ dubs, doesn't mean they didn't have it. I mean, DB did have the original M & E track, did it not?

Other foreign language dubs such as the Italian movies, and the Chinese ones I've seen have as far as I can tell the original BGM/SFX (which is usually one track). That's why I suspect FUNi had to redo the SFX for their original dub too ( hence why the Ocean/FUni dubs sound slightly different). Occasionally some effect sounds find their way to the dub track though, the Evangelion/Angel howls in Eva were on the dub track and had to be redone in the movies.

With a cash cow such as DBZ FUNi will keep re-realising on every format going. If you want to own it then you have to make a choice sooner or later. With that said let us now think of those that bought DBZ on laser disk....

[ect5150]

No problem...it looks like these shots are from the raw film source (I took them quite a while ago).

FUNimation:

Dragon Box:


FUNimation:

Dragon Box:

These images are from Funi DVDs and Dragonbox DVDs? Or Funi DVDs & animation cell scans?

I have two points/questions to make if they are:

1. - I seem to remember the Funi DVDs always having some black lines on the left and right sides of the image on their DVDs, thus I'm wondering if the above Funi DVD images were cropped slightly.

2. - Given the "Dragon Box" image compared to the "Funi" image, I can totally see how Funi is claiming to add more picture on the left and right sides and still maintain widescreen. However, they are just foregoing adding the additional top and bottom they could be giving us as well.

Very interesting. If the above is Funi DVD vs <anything, it doesn't matter>, and you thought the image on your screen was acceptable with the Funi DVDs, there is no reason to think you would have problems watching the new widescreen FUNI discs. I guess we're gaining the left and right portions that are shown in the Dragon box footage, just not the top and bottom when comparing it to the current Funi pictures.

Therefore, they are keeping roughly the same height on the image as the original Funi discs, but adding the additional footage on the sides that was originally zoomed thru. I just wonder if those Funi DVD pictures above are cropped or not (because I don't see those back lines on the edge like the ones that are on every other single Funi DBZ DVD I've ever tried to edit and use).

[Kula]

...Therefore, they are keeping roughly the same height on the image as the original Funi discs, but adding the additional footage on the sides that was originally zoomed thru.

I think you may have figured it out.

If Funi's existing footage is zoomed in from the original, they can add footage to the sides, but not the top to give widescreen. This is essentially taking the original 4:3 picture and trimming the top and bottom.

It's better compared to Funi's existing DVDs but worse than the Dragon Box.

[DBW]

These images are from Funi DVDs and Dragonbox DVDs? Or Funi DVDs & animation cell scans?

My images are from the original raw film source (the original cel photography). The clips are taken from Dragon Box Z Vol. 2 and are the source used for the Dragon Box remasters. All I mean by "raw film source" is that it's untouched, it hasn't been remastered (but they're not cel scans or anything). I'd assume this is the same footage FUNimation recieved for their remastering. As far as framing goes, the Dragon Box masters are the same.

HOWEVER, I should point out that this is only for the *creditless* version of that opening animation. The final animation used in the episodes was actually re-framed. This re-framing was done by Toei when the episodes first aired, and not by Pony Canyon during the remastering process (this is indicated by the placement of the credits on the film). Therefore, it is technically possible for FUNimation to capture more image, but only to the degree shown in the *raw* film masters, which isn't much.

Even then, this only applies for that one particular opening sequence. It's unlikely that this same logic will apply to the actual episode content, since there would be no credits on the screen to keep Pony Canyon from zooming out even further (which they did, even re-aligning the photography in some instances to capture as much image as possible).

Anyways, here's the re-adjusted images:

(I'm guessing the colors are deeper in the episode versions due to the extra overlaying cels, or whatever they used, to add the credits.)
FUNimation:

Raw Film Source:

Dragon Box (in episode):


FUNimation:

Raw Film Source:

Dragon Box (in episode):

[Li'l Lemmy]

ONCE AGAIN, EVERYONE PUT YOUR EYES (AND POSSIBLY OTHER BODY PARTS) ON THE FOLLOWING:


Here's something to get the conversation juiced all over again. We now have (what's likely to be) OFFICIAL BOX ART for the upcoming season set, courtesy of the listing on RightStuf:

NEW:


"But wait, Lemmy. That's the canceled box art from before. You're just looking for attention. What a shame, that you should be so lonely. I hope you find true love someday."

Uh . . . you're tragically blind, and my love life is none of your business. Note the difference.

ORIGINAL:


While the new box does basically look the same as the previously released image, there are some subtle differences to this packaging; the box is more of a golden orange color than the yellow we saw before, and of course there's now the "Digitally Remastered" tag celebrating the set's key feature.

Other small things, like FUNimation's DVD code on the spine, indicate this to be official.

They kept the same image of Vegeta-- and while I suppose that's not the absolute best one to use (I can certainly think of a few others), I could care less because the actual box design doesn't look half-bad. I'm going to love having a neat and tidy row of these on my shelf.

Opinions?

EDIT: (BELOW IMAGE courtesy of Daizenshuu EX! And remember guys, let's try not to carry these cover images over to every other post unnecessarily; keep the thread clean, user friendly and free of Mike's wrath!)

[SatoSky]

In regards to the box art, they could have done worse. In my opinion, the content is more important than the packaging.