Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[GeeRod]

And if wasn't for Goku knowing what will happen with his planet, Freeza would blow up the Earth AGAIN and Vegeta will die along. Goku is the real winner here, not Vegeta.

Vegeta had Freeza on his hands and Knees before Goku killed him.

Having someone in that position is win no matter how you look at it.

So Gohan defeated Raditz? Because with his headbutt Raditz was with his chest fucked up and not being able to move, leading to Goku and Piccolo victory.

[sintzu]

And yet Freeza still killed him, that is a show of utter incompetence not superiority.

In the current time line he didn't die.

[Zephyr]

One worthwhile distinction that can be made between Freeza blowing Vegeta up and the Saibaman blowing Yamcha up, is that Freeza was supposed to be the big threat of the story at the time, and was backed into a corner and was forced to play his trump card. The Saibaman, while still being forced into a corner to use his trump card, was not the big bad threat at the time. So humiliating a Saibaman into using his last ditch effort isn't as impressive as humiliating Freeza into doing the same.

Vegeta "won" in a sense that he had to force Freeza to use his trump card to win, but he lost in the grand scheme, since that trump card indeed did him in. If we're giving respect to Vegeta for that, we logically have to give respect to everyone else who's done the same.

Also, this post has shown me how tedious it is to type "Saibaman" repeatedly.

[sintzu]

You telling me Goku going back in time means Freeza wouldn't have killed Vegeta again if Goku stood back and watched.

Of course not,Goku saved the earth by killing Freeza however his fight with Vegeta which lead to him losing still happened.

[SansrivaaL]

Who says Goku won? we all know Goku lost as well due to his being over confident=foreshadowed a lot of times.

As I said before, they both lost in the end because of their character flaws. Vegeta probably took too long to finish Freeza off, giving him enough time to blow up the planet, and Goku let his guard down. I don't care how or if but both lost, so its kind of unfair that only Vegeta gets called out on this. The movie is about them growing as fighters since they are being held back by their character flaws; this is what would make a good discussion, not the toxic found in more than half the thread.[/quote]


Because of the fans that actually thinks Vegeta looked badass while some of us fail to see which part he looked badass and had a win. I already stated Goku has a flaw despite being a great martial artist, AT kinda shoved it down our throats, Beerus said it, Whis said it, Frieza said it, Vegeta said it. He is too soft I'm not denying that, hence the reason why he lost in the 1st place being over confident seeing Frieza down not expecting a hit from anyone then BANG he got pierced in the heart.

[TheGmGoken]

i dont see how vegeta isnt seen as a winner tbh.

Because his name isn't Gohan or Goku.

Goku lost in this movie too. Gohan almost died. I don't see what being a certain character has to do with anything.

Facts are:
Vegeta was scared
Freeza while on brink of defeat blow up Earth killing a lot.
Whis and Goku know the true story (alongside Bulma and Beerus.)
Goku lost due to Sorba.
Gohan got one shotted
Piccolo fought evenly with that Shishmi guy
Everyone else either kick ass or got their ass kicked.

[miguelnuva1]

While were on the subject did Toriyama forget about Bra? Now that Vegeta's a god Bra's power level is going to be multiverse levels.

[sintzu]

Freeza while on brink of defeat...

On the brink ? being on his hands and knees is defeat.

[Lord Frieza]

And yet Freeza still killed him, that is a show of utter incompetence not superiority.

In the current time line he didn't die.

Only because Goku had for-knowledge of what was going to happen, otherwise it would have ended exactly the same. Vegeta getting a planet exploding in his face and then dead. Regardless of the time change Vegeta lost and would have lost and Goku, Bulama and the rest know it.

[dbzfan7]

You telling me Goku going back in time means Freeza wouldn't have killed Vegeta again if Goku stood back and watched.

Of course not,Goku saved the earth by killing Freeza however his fight with Vegeta which lead to him losing still happened.

Because he was saved by Goku. He would have died if not for Goku. So Vegeta nearly killing Freeza but dying, counts as a Vegeta win. Freeza about to kill Vegeta again, but Goku saving Vegeta, counts as a Vegeta win.

[TheGmGoken]

Freeza while on brink of defeat...

On the brink ? being on his hands and knees is defeat.

Not when you blow up the Earth killing the person you're fighting. Vegeta kicked ass yes. But he didn't win. It's like this. Vegeta starts winning. Then he loses. Then he doesn't loses.

Gohan kicked SuperBoo ass until he ran away. Did Gohan win?

[Sparko33]

Because of the fans that actually thinks Vegeta looked badass while some of us fail to see which part he looked badass and had a win. I already stated Goku has a flaw despite being a great martial artist, AT kinda shoved it down our throats, Beerus said it, Whis said it, Freeza said it, Vegeta said it. He is too soft I'm not denying that, hence the reason why he lost in the 1st place being over confident seeing Freeza down not expecting a hit from anyone then BANG he got pierced in the heart.

Same thing happened to Vegeta, except Sorbet was already dead because he killed him, and Freeza was even more desperate because he had been beaten up again; which led to more drastic measures in the form of him blowing up the planet. Tbh in this movie no one looked badass, except maybe Whiss, because everyone had their flaws, which is why some people are criticizing the movie. There are both extremes to the 'Vegeta looked badass' part, some people are over-glorifying him because they hoped he would be the star of this movie, and others are making him sound second-tier, when in reality its somewhere in between. I think we can all agree that everyone messed up in some way, and that maybe the majority of people are hoping that another movie will ensure that Goku/Vegeta get over their character flaws and work together to beat a relevant opponent.

[sintzu]

I don't see what being a certain character has to do with anything.

Goku defeats Nappa while Vegeta kills him = win for Goku.

Vegeta defeats Freeza while Goku kills him = win for Goku,loss for Vegeta.

Vegeta distracts Cell in order for Gohan to defeat him = win for Gohan.

Sorbet distracts Goku in order for Freeza to defeat him = Freeza cheated.

That's pretty much the general opinions on the above so being a certain character has everything to do with what's looked at as a win or loss.

[mAcChaos]

Freeza going for a kamikaze move isn't that different than from what Cell did so I don't see what the big deal is.

[dbzfan7]

I don't see what being a certain character has to do with anything.

Goku defeats Nappa while Vegeta kills him = win for Goku.

Vegeta defeats Freeza while Goku kills him = win for Goku,loss for Vegeta.

Vegeta distracts Cell in order for Gohan to defeat him = win for Gohan.

Sorbet distracts Goku in order for Freeza to defeat him = Freeza cheated.

That's pretty much the general opinions on the above so being a certain character has everything to do with what's looked at as a win or loss.

Nappa was crippled and literally couldn't fight back. Hence why Vegeta killed him. Goku didn't have to prove anything further as Nappa can't possibly try anything.

Freeza was moments away from beating Vegeta before Goku killed him.

Goku and Vegeta assist Gohan to help him kill Cell. Goku with moral support, and Vegeta to give Gohan an opening to make things easier.

No such thing as cheating in a life or death battle.

[TheGmGoken]

I don't see what being a certain character has to do with anything.

Goku defeats Nappa while Vegeta kills him = win for Goku.

Vegeta defeats Freeza while Goku kills him = win for Goku,loss for Vegeta.

Vegeta distracts Cell in order for Gohan to defeat him = win for Gohan.

Sorbet distracts Goku in order for Freeza to defeat him = Freeza cheated.

That's pretty much the general opinions on the above so being a certain character has everything to do with what's looked at as a win or loss.

No one said Freeza cheated. There's no rules. Goku the dumbass who left his guard down. He played the price for it. Vegeta let Freeza destroy Earth. He died. Whis is the winner here. No one really won except maybe Freeza until Whis did magic.

Once again. Did Gohan defeat Super Boo?

[sintzu]

It's like this. Vegeta starts winning. Then he loses. Then he doesn't loses.

Gohan kicked SuperBoo ass until he ran away. Did Gohan win?

If Freeza blew up the earth mid battle then I'd agree but he didn't he was defeated before he did that.

Gohan forced him to run away so yes it's a win for Gohan.

[Mystic Tien]

And yet Freeza still killed him, that is a show of utter incompetence not superiority.

In the current time line he didn't die.

We don't know yet, if Whis created another timeline with his rewind ability, or if he just changed the past. If he created another timeline, then in original FnF timeline Vegeta died, if he didn't, he died anyway, after which Whis rewind time, which prevented Vegeta from dying. But it doesn't change the fact that initially he died.

[Lord Frieza]

This reminds me of something from Red Dwarf

LISTER: Hey, it hasn't happened, has it? It has "will have going to have
happened" happened, but it hasn't actually "happened" happened yet,
actually.

RIMMER: Poppycock! It will be happened; it shall be going to be
happening; it will be was an event that could will have been taken
place in the future. Simple as that.

[sintzu]

Nappa was crippled and literally couldn't fight back.

Wasn't Freeza on his hands and knees after fighting Vegeta ? wouldn't that mean he couldn't fight back ? so why isn't that a win for Vegeta ? of course this is after Whis fixed everything.