Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Gyt Kaliba]

There's absolutely nothing that says 100% however that, despite his human body, Oob can't grow strong enough to handle his power or get even stronger just like everyone else. If there's one thing I definitely dislike about the introduction of alien races into Z, it's the mindset that seems to have come with it that the humans must automatically remain irrelevant forever more.

[Mewzard]

As I've said before. Freeza, who was one shot material by Buu, got to SSJG level in a mere 4 months. If someone that weak can become that strong in such a short amount of time, imagine what Uub could do being the reincarnation of Buu in a equal amount of time.

Freeza was the strongest in the universe at the time bar gods, horrific mystical monsters like Buu, and the King of the Demon Realm as far as we're aware of. All of that without training.

That's some hardcore untapped potential. It took Goku decades of training (occasionally with gods and in the afterlife) and gaining a legendary transformation all after abusing a species ability to power up after near death to pass an untrained Freeza.

So, weak may not be the right word.

[Lord Beerus]

Oh my god this is


blue blue blue blue blue blue and blue, sorry I only view the blue

Spoiler:

Looks really good on Goku and Vegeta. But it seems a bit bright in this regard.

[ShadowWolf87]

The "Blue SSJ God" is basically "Full Power SSJ God", right?

It's Super Saiyan. Literally Super Saiyan. Just using god ki.

[Kishido]

I'm sorry... But I still find this form ugly as hell

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The "Blue SSJ God" is basically "Full Power SSJ God", right?

And a much more important question. Why would Goku be excited about meeting and fighting Uub in the end of DBZ? Uub is at Kid Buu's level. Goku knew about Beerus, Whis, and SSJ God Vegeta years before the end of DBZ but he is really excited to meet and fight such a weak opponent?

Either Goku & Vegeta will lose their God power in a future movie, or Goku didn't want to use his God power against Oob because he wanted a rematch with Boo's reincarnation to see if he could beat him in a fair one-on-one fight after his training. Super Saiyan God didn't come from his training, so it would have been unfair & pointless

The "Blue SSJ God" is basically "Full Power SSJ God", right?

And a much more important question. Why would Goku be excited about meeting and fighting Uub in the end of DBZ? Uub is at Kid Buu's level. Goku knew about Beerus, Whis, and SSJ God Vegeta years before the end of DBZ but he is really excited to meet and fight such a weak opponent?

As I've said before. Freeza, who was one shot material by Buu, got to SSJG level in a mere 4 months. If someone that weak can become that strong in such a short amount of time, imagine what Uub could do being the reincarnation of Buu in a equal amount of time.

That's not it. Goku was interested about Oob's current power, not his potential. He wanted to fight him from Round 1, when they were both at 100% stamina, and he wasn't even sure he would win. Oob turned out as strong as Goku expected, but the problem was, Oob wasn't trained & couldn't control that power, so Goku was forced to train him.

Goku wasn't looking for a student, he was looking for a good opponent.

It's Super Saiyan. Literally Super Saiyan. Just using god ki.

No, what you describe is the regular Super Saiyan with SS God power, which Goku used against Beerus, and is as strong as SSGod & base with SSGod power. This is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which Super Saiyan combined with Super Saiyan God, and it's stronger than Super Saiyan God, plus, it's blue.

[radrappy]

As I've said before. Freeza, who was one shot material by Buu, got to SSJG level in a mere 4 months. If someone that weak can become that strong in such a short amount of time, imagine what Uub could do being the reincarnation of Buu in a equal amount of time.

If it makes you feel at all better, Piccolo confirms it took him about 6 months, not 4. For everyone still bellyaching about this plot point, rest assured; every character in the movie comments on it constantly. Goku himself is quite taken with Freeza and compliments him heavily.

[ShadowWolf87]

The "Blue SSJ God" is basically "Full Power SSJ God", right?

And a much more important question. Why would Goku be excited about meeting and fighting Uub in the end of DBZ? Uub is at Kid Buu's level. Goku knew about Beerus, Whis, and SSJ God Vegeta years before the end of DBZ but he is really excited to meet and fight such a weak opponent?

As I've said before. Freeza, who was one shot material by Buu, got to SSJG level in a mere 4 months. If someone that weak can become that strong in such a short amount of time, imagine what Uub could do being the reincarnation of Buu in a equal amount of time.

That's not it. Goku was interested about Oob's current power, not his potential. He wanted to fight him from Round 1, when they were both at 100% stamina, and he wasn't even sure he would win. Oob turned out as strong as Goku expected, but the problem was, Oob wasn't trained & couldn't control that power, so Goku was forced to train him.

Goku wasn't looking for a student, he was looking for a good opponent.

It's Super Saiyan. Literally Super Saiyan. Just using god ki.

No, what you describe is the regular Super Saiyan with SS God power, which Goku used against Beerus, and is as strong as SSGod & base with SSGod power. This is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which Super Saiyan combined with Super Saiyan God, and it's stronger than Super Saiyan God, plus, it's blue.

The explanation for the form is that it's what happens when someone goes Super Saiyan having mastered God Ki. Which is exactly what I just said.

People need to stop trying to make it needlessly complex.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The explanation for the form is that it's what happens when someone goes Super Saiyan having mastered God Ki. Which is exactly what I just said.

People need to stop trying to make it needlessly complex.

But Super Saiyan God SS is stronger than Super Saiyan God, while Super Saiyan with God power from BoG isn't.

[Low Tone G]

The explanation for the form is that it's what happens when someone goes Super Saiyan having mastered God Ki. Which is exactly what I just said.

People need to stop trying to make it needlessly complex.

But Super Saiyan God SS is stronger than Super Saiyan God, while Super Saiyan with God power from BoG isn't.

That's not because he trained so that's why he became stronger?

[Blade]

I find it funny that almost all of us here first found out about the blue form from mere chibi figurine toys....

Me too, especially as I was rather convinced that there was no way they could be legitimate. They looked so much like the kind of wildly-coloured bootlegs that we've seen on Ebay from Chinese sellers for decades to carry any sort of weight in my mind.

And I wasn't the only one!

[ShadowWolf87]

The explanation for the form is that it's what happens when someone goes Super Saiyan having mastered God Ki. Which is exactly what I just said.

People need to stop trying to make it needlessly complex.

But Super Saiyan God SS is stronger than Super Saiyan God, while Super Saiyan with God power from BoG isn't.

That wasn't Super Saiyan using God ki though. That was Goku going Super Saiyan after receiving the natural boost in strength he gained from absorbing it. But he still couldn't command that ki and use it at will, it only came back out instinctively to disperse Beerus' blast.

Since he's trained, he seems to be able to command and use it at will, which includes using it in other forms.

[Marco Polo]

That's not it. Goku was interested about Oob's current power, not his potential. He wanted to fight him from Round 1, when they were both at 100% stamina, and he wasn't even sure he would win. Oob turned out as strong as Goku expected, but the problem was, Oob wasn't trained & couldn't control that power, so Goku was forced to train him.

Goku wasn't looking for a student, he was looking for a good opponent.

He thought so because he was hoping Uub would be a battle-hardened fighter who trained all his life. He had no idea who/what Uub would be and he didn't particularly expect a young untrained kid who only participated because he needed money for his poor village.

[mAcChaos]

The "Blue SSJ God" is basically "Full Power SSJ God", right?

And a much more important question. Why would Goku be excited about meeting and fighting Uub in the end of DBZ? Uub is at Kid Buu's level. Goku knew about Beerus, Whis, and SSJ God Vegeta years before the end of DBZ but he is really excited to meet and fight such a weak opponent?

As I've said before. Freeza, who was one shot material by Buu, got to SSJG level in a mere 4 months. If someone that weak can become that strong in such a short amount of time, imagine what Uub could do being the reincarnation of Buu in a equal amount of time.

They are not the same species. Freeza is Freeza. Uub is a reincarnation of Kid Buu in a human body. Uub is undeniably the stongest superhuman in DBZ but nothing suggests that he has the same potential as Freeza or the Saiyans. He can't survive if he's chopped into pieces like Freeza was, he doesn't get zenkai boosts like the Saiyans do, and there is no "super human god" ritual to give Uub a power boost.

I don't have a problem with Battle of Gods and Revival of Freeza contradicting pretty much everything in DBGT but I do have a huge problem with these movies contradicting the ending of DBZ as it was in the manga.

By that logic though as a human he should never be able to come close to tapping Kid Buu's power, yet Goku thought otherwise.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's not because he trained so that's why he became stronger?

I'm not talking about BoG & FnF Goku, I'm talking about the forms. When combined with God power, base <= SS <= SSG < SSGSS. That's what the movies showed us.

That wasn't Super Saiyan using God ki though. That was Goku going Super Saiyan after receiving the natural boost in strength he gained from absorbing it. But he still couldn't command that ki and use it at will, it only came back out instinctively to disperse Beerus' blast.

Since he's trained, he seems to be able to command and use it at will, which includes using it in other forms.

Goku didn't get a natural boost in his base. If he had, Super Saiyan would gave been x50 stronger than his base, not insignificantly stronger. After absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God, all of his forms (base/SS/2/3/God) came to the same level, with SSGSS being the only form that surpassed them.

[ShadowWolf87]

That's not because he trained so that's why he became stronger?

I'm not talking about BoG & FnF Goku, I'm talking about the forms. When combined with God power, base <= SS <= SSG < SSGSS. That's what the movies showed us.

That wasn't Super Saiyan using God ki though. That was Goku going Super Saiyan after receiving the natural boost in strength he gained from absorbing it. But he still couldn't command that ki and use it at will, it only came back out instinctively to disperse Beerus' blast.

Since he's trained, he seems to be able to command and use it at will, which includes using it in other forms.

Goku didn't get a natural boost in his base. If he had, Super Saiyan would gave been x50 stronger than his base, not insignificantly stronger. After absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God, all of his forms (base/SS/2/3/God) came to the same level, with SSGSS being the only form that surpassed them.

Where in the world are you getting that from?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Where in the world are you getting that from?

Battle of Gods, Ressurection F, and Toriyama himself.

We see in BoG through Goku vs Beerus that God, base, and SS are on the same level, since Goku didn't notice the difference when changing forms (he hadn't even realized he was changing forms), and Beerus stated that after Goku absorbed the power of SSG, his power decreased insignificantly. FnF also shows that base Goku is about as strong as God Goku.

Toriyama said that after the fight with Beerus, Goku will stop using Super Saiyan God because he doesn't need it, and he won't be using SS2 & SS3 anymore because they consume too much energy, implying that if Goku had used SS2 or SS3 against Beerus, he wouldn't get any stronger like it happened with regular Super Saiyan, so Goku will only be using his base & SS now. FnF shows that SS can still give a significant increase by combining it with SSG.

[Rozay]

It seems to me that Toriyama is trying, with recent movies and interviews, to shift the focus of battle from mostly "power stacking", especially if we think about the Buu Saga that preceeded these movies, to nuanced fighting and a bigger emphasis on technique, but he's doing it a bit too forcefully and overlooking a little (sometimes a lot) of continuity, by overlooking that before, things like physical stress and getting caught unguarded didn't seem to matter as much, or weren't used much in other recent major battles. For example, even with the physical strain, SSJ3 was definitely a useful form, and now it doesn't seem to be anymore, yet if you apply Buu Saga's logic, SSJ3 Goku infused with God energy would probably be, yes, very useful, even if in limited time. Just a thought.

[ShadowWolf87]

Where in the world are you getting that from?

Battle of Gods, Ressurection F, and Toriyama himself.

We see in BoG through Goku vs Beerus that God, base, and SS are on the same level, since Goku didn't notice the difference when changing forms (he hadn't even realized he was changing forms), and Beerus stated that after Goku absorbed the power of SSG, his power decreased insignificantly. FnF also shows that base Goku is about as strong as God Goku.

Toriyama said that after the fight with Beerus, Goku will stop using Super Saiyan God because he doesn't need it, and he won't be using SS2 & SS3 anymore because they consume too much energy, implying that if Goku had used SS2 or SS3 against Beerus, he wouldn't get any stronger like it happened with regular Super Saiyan, so Goku will only be using his base & SS now. FnF shows that SS can still give a significant increase by combining it with SSG.

None of that is implied by any of these things.

I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God.

Goku didn't realize he'd lost his form because it had been absorbed into him, it was part of him. But he knew he was powering up when he burst through those rocks. What Toriyama said was Goku, having absorbed said Godly ki into himself, no longer needed the ritual to take that form when he already had access to that power.

Similarly, SSJ2 and SSJ3, while giving a boost in power, also consume energy far faster. They've always done so.

Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength...

Right there he even says they're still powered-up versions of said transformations, but they also burn through your stamina rapidly. They're best used only when needed or in short bursts, whereas continuing to improve himself in his base form and using only one transformation would allow him to maintain stamina as well as become less reliant on having to transform and risk what happened when fighting Buu. That's not saying they're at the same level in the least.

[Marlowe89]

The explanation for the form is that it's what happens when someone goes Super Saiyan having mastered God Ki. Which is exactly what I just said.

People need to stop trying to make it needlessly complex.

But Super Saiyan God SS is stronger than Super Saiyan God, while Super Saiyan with God power from BoG isn't.

Nowhere in the film or in official material is this ever remotely implied. It is literally Super Saiyan 1 using the power of Super Saiyan God, nothing more and nothing less. This is explicitly stated.