Favorite Episode?

SDNess · Post by **SDNess** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:19 am

What's your favorite episode throughout all three series?

I'm thinking about mine. Dunno yet.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:35 am

That's a really hard question! I've gotta think about it for a while!

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:44 am

Do tv specials count? If so, my fav is Bardock. If not, then Vegeta's second death scene.

SDNess · Post by **SDNess** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:46 am

Yea, anything. Episodes, movies, and specials.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:54 am

Hm...their's so many to chose from...Goku's first transformation to SSJ1, Cell becoming perfect, Gohan transforming into SSJ2...

But just for the sake of being different, I'm going to go with Vegeta's pounding and following death scene. For me, it was such a dramatic turning point in the series. Vegeta was no longer a 2 dimensional villian, but a real character with goals and feelings. It was a welcome injection of emotion into up to that point, had been mostly JUST a fighting anime.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 12:56 am

first or second death?

SDNess · Post by **SDNess** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:04 am

I'm confused as to where in the timeline you're talking about.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:12 am

His first death in the Freeza saga, at the hands of Freeza. Possibly one of the most brutal beating scenes in the entire series. I thought his last words to Goku were very touching.

SDNess · Post by **SDNess** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 1:28 am

What'd he say? ...it's been so long.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:10 am

Well, Goku acts shocked after Freeza mortally wounds Vegeta, and tells him that their was no honour in killing someone who couldn't fight back. Vegeta tries desperatly to make Goku understand what kind of feind Freeza was, and that if he didn't abandon his feelings and morals that he would get killed.

He describes his childhood as a young saiyan prince, killing and destroying planets for Freeza, and then how he had been taken away by Freeza as a child and forced to obey his orders under the threat that his father and his planet would be destroyed if he didn't.

And then that tearful farewell:

"He made me what I am. Don't let him do it to anyone else..."

Like I said, it was just really touching.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:58 am

My fav is probably the episode where Vegeta dies for the first time, episode #86 of the Japanese version. It was a very unexpected scene for me, and one that helped explain Vegeta's personality. However, what he says is very different from what Deus describes. In the original version, he doesn't much elaborate about what Freeza did to him specifically, but rather what he did to their race as a whole. Here's a link to a transcript of the episode...

http://www.dbzoa.net/pd/pd86.txt
(it's a rather loose translation, but it has the general gist of what was said)

A few close runner-ups to that would be the episode where everybody on earth contributes their energy to Goku's Genki Dama, the episodes where Piccolo trained Gohan, and Bardock's Story.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:03 am

lol, I knew that was going to come up. Yes I was reffering to the dub, but in a sence it was more or less the same. Those 'flashbacks' Vegeta had kinda summed up what he was trying to say.

sailorspazz · Post by **sailorspazz** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:11 am

Lots of Vegeta talk in this thread....which I shall now add to ^_^ My favorite episode is Vegeta's second death, I think it's number 238, and the English title is "Final Atonement" (can't remember the Japanese right now....) It's the only episode out of the entire series that has made me cry (though I do get misty eyed during Gokuu's final genki dama against Buu). It's kind of ironic that my favorite episode would be one where my favorite character dies (and I've seen many other people say the same thing with favorite characters in many different anime series), but I guess death episodes tend to reveal a lot about a character. Vegeta certainly shows how much he has changed when he reaches out to hug Trunks for the first time. I'm also quite fond of Vegeta's first death episode (surprise, surprise). As Deus said, it was really our first glimpse of Vegeta being more than just an arrogant asshole (and he cried! *sniff*) The fact that anime as a whole has villain characters that are actually portrayed as having real depth is one of the things that turned me into an otaku in the first place.

Post by **TripleRach** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:19 am

My favorite has to be Episode 59 of Dragon Ball. The debut of Taopaipai.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:38 am

Deus,

I'd have to disagree. Since Vegeta was far too much an evil little nut to care about whether he was good or bad, or what effect Freeza had on him in that sense. He seemed to be more referring to his humiliation and forced servitude, than his moral state or what had happened to his father. It was the way his pride had been crushed, and his state of utter helplessness that cut him to the core.

Forgive me, I'm a bit of a purist when it comes to the series. It's just that the dub made that scene into too much of a redemption scene rather than a final plea for justice.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 5:26 pm

I agree with Alias on this one. I'm sorry, but Funimation has a way of turning Vegita's as well as Piccolo's comments into "touchy, feely-good" expressions, or at least watering them down. Don't forget how in the Funimation version of Vegita's re-telling of how he attained Super Saiyajin. "I just didn't care about being better than Kakarott anymore." Please! Vegita was bloody enraged at himself for failing to attain his goal. The extreme rage and frustration is what made him finally change! Anyway, the only pure Saiyajin that has ever felt badly about the crimes committed by the Saiyajin race is Goku. Period. Sorry, Vegita could've cared less. Freeza didn't make him what he was, he was already like that! It was all about revenge. It's the exact same thing for the Bardock Special. Funimation pulled it there too. In the dub, Bardock acts like he's sorry for all the genocide the Saiyajins committed under Freeza's orders and that he can die content knowing that his son will carry out justice! **Play the fanfare now** Once again, complete bull! Bardock was as crude a Saiyajin as anyone else! He also did not care about the mass murders he and his comrades did. Like Vegita, he just wanted revenge on that bloody Freeza! He smiled as he was dying because his vision of his son let him know that at least one Saiyajin would be left alive and come back and finally take that bastard Freeza out! His people would at last get their revenge! I feel Vegita does not become fully redeemed until the Buu saga when he sacrifices himself by exploding his body and hopefully taking Buu with him.
As for my favourite episode, I don't really have one. I have favourite moments, but not episodes. Movie-wise I would say movies- 3(because the original guys are all there, yeah!) movie 9(Gohan's so incredible in it and it has really touching moments), and movie 12(this one's just great!).
Movie 6 has some great moments too I think. I do also have a favourite saga-the Saiyajin saga, as well as the Freeza saga too.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:21 pm

lol okay Alias and Jersey Milk, your points are well taken. I'm just trying to save face for quoting a dub episode, since the Freeza saga is one of the few I have not seen in japanese yet. Yes, FUNimation has an extremly annoying habit of adding ideas and extra lines where they are not needed.

HOWEVER, you have to admit that sometimes the dub was just a little better. Now before you crucify me, think to episode 214, Vegeta's Pride. Kaioshin makes a comment about Goku and Vegeta's rivalry being meaningless because of Boo's imminent ressurection. In the original japanese, he says...(not a direct quote, just from memory)

"Meaningless?! He surpassed my strength! He surpassed my strength! Blah blah..."

He was pretty much throwing a tantrum. Then the dub actually injects some thought into this scene.

"Meaningless? What do you know of meaningless?! Spend most of your life ruled by another, watch your race dwindle to a handful, then tell me what has more meaning than your own strength!"

I can think of more instances, but I think I'll just retreat to a safe distance before the DBZ purists read this

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:39 pm

That...that actually is a lot cooler. I suddenly feel dirty for saying that though...

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:54 pm

Dayspring wrote:That...that actually is a lot cooler. I suddenly feel dirty for saying that though...

HA!, I have corrupted you!

heheh, my second example was the Bardock feature. Although FUNimation added in WAY too much talking when their was supposed to be silence (thanks for killing the suspence you bastards!) but the dialogue was much better.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Jan 21, 2004 11:58 pm

NO! In the bardock flashback they had him call all those aliens around him his "fellow Saiyans". BAH! Green-skinned fishfreaks are NOT Saiyans!

You have now UNcorrupted me!