My Experience Watching Dragon Ball GT

[Valerius Dover]

The line about the Black Star Dragon Balls being created when Piccolo and Kami were one is there, in the dub at least. My gut feeling tells me that this wasn't made up, though, since GT is more accurate script-wise when it comes to stuff like this.

[Cipher]

The line about the Black Star Dragon Balls being created when Piccolo and Kami were one is there, in the dub at least. My gut feeling tells me that this wasn't made up, though, since GT is more accurate script-wise when it comes to stuff like this.

He talks about them having been created when they were one in the Japanese version too. But I don't remember either version mentioning his alien origin.

[Zephyr]

Not sure if this is a dub line or not, but in the first episode after Goku and Uub finish their training, Dende tells Popo to get a first aid kit. That's stood out to me as one of the more eyebrow raising moments.

[Cetra]

GT had only one really - nah ... - moment for me and it will always stay like that. That is Cell reusing his tail and even being able to potentially absorb others that are not 17 and 18 with it as a whole. If Dragon Ball were mine, I would immeditaley retcon that.

Agreed. That moment is bonkers. I'd definitely take it out.

But it's also not so bonkers that I'd immediately cry foul on it if appeared in the manga. Cell shoots miniature clones out of that tail at one point, with no prior indication he could.

(It's still bad, though. Don't get me wrong.)

I bet Freeza was really mad because Cell for one moment actually had those God powers in his hand.

[Gonstead]

GT had only one really - nah ... - moment for me and it will always stay like that. That is Cell reusing his tail and even being able to potentially absorb others that are not 17 and 18 with it as a whole. If Dragon Ball were mine, I would immeditaley retcon that.

Agreed. That moment is bonkers. I'd definitely take it out.

But it's also not so bonkers that I'd immediately cry foul on it if appeared in the manga. Cell shoots miniature clones out of that tail at one point, with no prior indication he could.

(It's still bad, though. Don't get me wrong.)

Considering he has the DNA of Piccolo, a Namekian, it's not too far fetched that he can spawn mini-mes.

[Valerius Dover]

Not sure if this is a dub line or not, but in the first episode after Goku and Uub finish their training, Dende tells Popo to get a first aid kit. That's stood out to me as one of the more eyebrow raising moments.

That sounds like the kind of thing that would be a dub line. Eh, maybe he was having an off-day.

[Cetra]

Not sure if this is a dub line or not, but in the first episode after Goku and Uub finish their training, Dende tells Popo to get a first aid kit. That's stood out to me as one of the more eyebrow raising moments.

That sounds like the kind of thing that would be a dub line. Eh, maybe he was having an off-day.

You could also explain that away that the Earth God no longer helps as long as it is not really necessary. Like when Kami said "you may ask me for one thing but then never again because you have to learn doing things alone". Kind of reflects Shenlong's final speech as well in a way. Granted, he still would help him with the First Aid Set but I did not say it was a good explanation.

[jcogginsa]

How can someone still have a problem with the power of Base Goku after liking his power ups in Battle of Gods and Resurrection F? He literally is so powerful.

GT had only one really - nah ... - moment for me and it will always stay like that. That is Cell reusing his tail and even being able to potentially absorb others that are not 17 and 18 with it as a whole. If Dragon Ball were mine, I would immeditaley retcon that.

Because his supposed "Stronger forms" proceed to be weaker than his base form

That was never said. Super Saiyajin costs more effort but that's it. This whole "Super Saiyajin God Super Saiyajin" even shows there are still stronger levels than the normal Super Saiyajin God. Basically the Super Saiyajin forms we see in GT could all be SSJGSSJ just not coloured blue.

It doesn't need to be said. GT goku punches Super 17 halfway accross the planet (In either Base or Super Saiyan, can't remember) then transforms into SSJ4 and starts getting his ass kicked

[Cetra]

It doesn't need to be said. GT goku punches Super 17 halfway accross the planet (In either Base or Super Saiyan, can't remember) then transforms into SSJ4 and starts getting his ass kicked

Goku even admits in the original that he was fighting that dumb as a SSJ4 because he felt it would be either the only way that could work or none of it would help them in the end. He could have punched him around nonetheless but not finish him off. And that is what he tried out by using Ki, which he found out to strengthen him.

After Freeza first form being stronger than a retired Gohan or Freeza getting so strong in general in four months I can totally think of the two greatest scientists to make a Machine Mutant who holds his own against Goku. Actually, I did not even need Freeza for that. Dragon Ball was always like that. Weird in terms of power in general.

[Cipher]

It doesn't need to be said. GT goku punches Super 17 halfway accross the planet (In either Base or Super Saiyan, can't remember) then transforms into SSJ4 and starts getting his ass kicked

He does that as a Super Saiyan. But Super 17 isn't damaged in anyway and nearly immedately afterward starts dominating Goku. That punch is just typical Dragon Ball flair. The dialogue consistently paints Goku as being out to sea in that fight.

Here's the things about watching GT: You have to put yourself in the mindset that fights, visually, aren't always going to be amazingly consistent representations of characters' power. That's never been Dragon Ball's strong suit, even if the issue here is slightly exacerbated in comparison to Toriyama's material. If you can put that out of your mind, you'll have fun. If you can't, you're in for a bad time, and I think that attitude, which is prevalent among certain parts of the fanbase, has contributed a bit to the series' bad rap.

[voltlunok]

The line about the Black Star Dragon Balls being created when Piccolo and Kami were one is there, in the dub at least. My gut feeling tells me that this wasn't made up, though, since GT is more accurate script-wise when it comes to stuff like this.

He talks about them having been created when they were one in the Japanese version too. But I don't remember either version mentioning his alien origin.

Pilaf never mentions them being Namekians. He merely states that the Black Star Balls were created before Kami separated from Piccolo. He has no idea that they're aliens, to Pilaf, Kami and Piccolo are the god and devil of Dragon World.

[Cetra]

The line about the Black Star Dragon Balls being created when Piccolo and Kami were one is there, in the dub at least. My gut feeling tells me that this wasn't made up, though, since GT is more accurate script-wise when it comes to stuff like this.

He talks about them having been created when they were one in the Japanese version too. But I don't remember either version mentioning his alien origin.

Pilaf never mentions them being Namekians. He merely states that the Black Star Balls were created before Kami separated from Piccolo. He has no idea that they're aliens, to Pilaf, Kami and Piccolo are the god and devil of Dragon World.

And even if, humans knew about Saiyajins arriving and Piccolo Daimaoh. Pilaf found out about the Dragon Balls per sé and how to find the rice containment thing. Knowing of the Black Star Balls is not less likely.

[Captain Space]

The same Pilaf gang who find Piccolo's rice cooker in the original series? As for the accessibility of the lookout, that started with Toriyama. Pilaf's done his homework, I guess, but mystical research seems to be one of the few real talents he has.

Ah. I admit I forgot about that. To be fair, that was hidden under the ocean, and while the ocean is a hell of a big place, it's actually physically possible if highly unlikely for them to find it. There shouldn't be any mystical texts on the Lookout, even if Pilaf is the greatest researcher in the world.

So we could be treated to an explanation from Shen-Long about why his powers can't help this time, as has occurred in the past to prevent easy solutions?

Honestly? I'd have preferred that. Sure, it'd have been like, "Well clearly they're only saying this to move the plot along," but at least it would've been some kind of explanation, as opposed to an oversight.

There is some faffery re: getting their spaceship back when they could Rambo their way through, for sure. But they can't go around deposing dictators on planets they barely understand, which Trunks points out near the end of their first episode there.

True, but even if they didn't want to meddle in the situation, they could've very easily got their spaceship out and left the planet through a much less convoluted and risky method than "take friggin' ages to sneak in, blunder around a bit, forget we're super-strong/super-fast/able to fly/have telekinesis and instead *drive a truck* with our ship on it, with someone who can't drive at that despite us all being fast enough to change over if we're dead-set on doing the driving thing, and otherwise overcomplicate what should've been laughably simple and as a result get our ship damaged".

Characters magically sussed this out on Namek as well. (And it makes sense that in terms of human-looking species, they'd be more recognizable than Earthlings, who haven't yet branched out into space.)

Don't think they did, no. The Namekians and Frieza's soldiers had no clue what they were--Burter had to ask Goku what he was, for one. Frieza only realised Gohan was a saiyan when he got a zenkai boost. The only time one of them besides Vegeta was recognised on sight was Frieza to Goku, and Goku reminded Frieza of Bardock, so...

Well, Don Kee was also being removed from power at that time. So ... golden handcuffs? 20/20 hindsight? It's not nuanced stuff, but neither are most incidental character arcs in Dragon Ball.

I wouldn't mind it as that. My problem is that it doesn't seem to be presented as an arc or a change at all. He suddenly acts like this honour thing has always been his shtick.

I don't believe base GT Goku is Boo-level. The series is notoriously murky on its starting powers, but there's quite a viable read that doesnt have Goku all that much stronger than he is at the end of Z.

Really? Huh. I'd always heard he was Buu-level (apparently he says something to that effect towards the end of the BSDB saga?).

I will agree that Imecka isn't a particularly compelling way to start the series, though.

I'm sure. I mean, I do plan on continuing.

[Marlowe89]

I've been rewatching GT recently, and despite some eyebrow-raising moments I don't think it's actually that bad overall, and I've always felt that it had a legitimately fantastic ending; additionally, I thought it succeeded in accomplishing a lot of things that it set out to do and it's fairly self-consistent as a stand-alone continuation. However, it's only when certain more "enthusiastic" fans of GT (for lack of a better term) try to reconcile it with the two most recent DBZ films as being in the exact same continuity that I start to have a problem, because I believe it makes the anime itself go from occasionally nonsensical to completely nonsensical at its very premise. I think it's an enormous disservice to GT when they make this sort of conclusion along with all the immense leaps in logic that would be required to force BoG and RoF into its backstory, so it's far better viewed as Toei's "original" continuation of Z - as opposed to Toriyama's continuation, which it should be distinguished from entirely - in my opinion.

[Hellspawn28]

It doesn't need to be said. GT goku punches Super 17 halfway accross the planet (In either Base or Super Saiyan, can't remember) then transforms into SSJ4 and starts getting his ass kicked

That's how GT works sadly. I mean Base Goku can't be hurt by Super Yi Xing Long's death ball but SSj4 Goku gets hurt by him as well. As far I can remember, the Genki Dama never had any spiritual projection around the attack. When Goku use the Genki Dama against Freeza on Namek, Freeza was still able to hurt him when he was trying to get ready for the attack.

[Cipher]

That's how GT works sadly. I mean Base Goku can't be hurt by Super Yi Xing Long's death ball but SSj4 Goku gets hurt by him as well. As far I can remember, the Genki Dama never had any spiritual projection around the attack. When Goku use the Genki Dama against Freeza on Namek, Freeza was still able to hurt him when he was trying to get ready for the attack.

For what it's worth, Yi Xing-Long also points out the weirdness of Goku taking those attacks. Goku is proooooooobably

Spoiler:

dead at that time. I'll try to find my old-ass post making sense of the ending and paste it here.

EDIT -- My old "Let's make sense of the ending" post:

Personally, I have my own reading of the ending. I'm not sure it's what the producers intended (if they even intended anything other than being cryptic for cryptic's sake), but it's one I've come to like.

I think it's very possible that the evil dragons were never truly a threat.

Bear with. Goku is killed by Yi Xing-Long. I know it's a subject of some debate, but the series seems to go out of its way to imply that he was more than just knocked out by Yi Xing-Long's blast (the one that leaves him in that massive crater). Characters can't sense him. Shen-Long very pointedly revives him with his classic eye-glow from where he lies motionless after defeating Yi Xing-Long, and characters seem to think he's died on the spot. Pan, of course, finds the shredded remains of his gi. So what was Goku wearing? Was he ethereal by that point? Finally, as he says good-bye to Vegeta, Piccolo and Kame Sennin, they all let out that infamous, "Goku, are you ... ?" I don't know about anyone else, but the missing word there seems with all implications to be "dead."

Now remember, when Yi Xing-Long blasts Goku as he's holding up the Genki Dama, he's convinced those hits should be killing him. And from everything we know about their powers, he's right. And what does Goku say? "I can't die until I've defeated you." What if he meant this literally?

What if Shen-Long clued Goku in on some sort of deal at his moment of death? As in, literally, he would live until he defeated the dragon, and then act as Shen-Long's vessel/spirit/what have you for the Dragon Balls as he took them away. In this way, the dragons were never an actual threat; they had to be defeated. It was merely a question of sacrifice.

It makes a bit of sense. Super Saiyan 4 is a power hundreds of times stronger than the gods and stronger than Buu. But some dragon from Earth's Dragon Balls, minus energy aside, shows up that can smack them around like nothing? So if some normal person had abused the balls, it would have been absolutely hopeless? Seems like a tailor-made threat for our heroes. Shen-Long/the Dragon Balls don't really have a motivation for destroying Earth in the first place. But a system in place to teach a lesson specific to those abusing the Dragon Balls seems to make sense.

So my reading: The evil dragons had to be defeated. But Goku was the price of their defeat. There's just too much emphasis on Goku's "death" and his "I can't die until I've defeated you" line to not warrant a deeper look.

And obviously he's granted the privilege of somehow being connected to the Dragon Balls upon their return.

(Spoiler used only because the thread is about someone's first complete viewing.)

[Sinestro]

Man, I remember the first time I saw GT.

I bought fansub tapes from a video game store on Staten Island. it was the Super 17 Saga.

[Captain Space]

For what it's worth, Yi Xing-Long also points out the weirdness of Goku taking those attacks. Goku is proooooooobably

Spoiler:

dead at that time. I'll try to find my old-ass post making sense of the ending and paste it here.

EDIT -- My old "Let's make sense of the ending" post:

Personally, I have my own reading of the ending. I'm not sure it's what the producers intended (if they even intended anything other than being cryptic for cryptic's sake), but it's one I've come to like.

I think it's very possible that the evil dragons were never truly a threat.

Bear with. Goku is killed by Yi Xing-Long. I know it's a subject of some debate, but the series seems to go out of its way to imply that he was more than just knocked out by Yi Xing-Long's blast (the one that leaves him in that massive crater). Characters can't sense him. Shen-Long very pointedly revives him with his classic eye-glow from where he lies motionless after defeating Yi Xing-Long, and characters seem to think he's died on the spot. Pan, of course, finds the shredded remains of his gi. So what was Goku wearing? Was he ethereal by that point? Finally, as he says good-bye to Vegeta, Piccolo and Kame Sennin, they all let out that infamous, "Goku, are you ... ?" I don't know about anyone else, but the missing word there seems with all implications to be "dead."

Now remember, when Yi Xing-Long blasts Goku as he's holding up the Genki Dama, he's convinced those hits should be killing him. And from everything we know about their powers, he's right. And what does Goku say? "I can't die until I've defeated you." What if he meant this literally?

What if Shen-Long clued Goku in on some sort of deal at his moment of death? As in, literally, he would live until he defeated the dragon, and then act as Shen-Long's vessel/spirit/what have you for the Dragon Balls as he took them away. In this way, the dragons were never an actual threat; they had to be defeated. It was merely a question of sacrifice.

It makes a bit of sense. Super Saiyan 4 is a power hundreds of times stronger than the gods and stronger than Buu. But some dragon from Earth's Dragon Balls, minus energy aside, shows up that can smack them around like nothing? So if some normal person had abused the balls, it would have been absolutely hopeless? Seems like a tailor-made threat for our heroes. Shen-Long/the Dragon Balls don't really have a motivation for destroying Earth in the first place. But a system in place to teach a lesson specific to those abusing the Dragon Balls seems to make sense.

So my reading: The evil dragons had to be defeated. But Goku was the price of their defeat. There's just too much emphasis on Goku's "death" and his "I can't die until I've defeated you" line to not warrant a deeper look.

And obviously he's granted the privilege of somehow being connected to the Dragon Balls upon their return.

(Spoiler used only because the thread is about someone's first complete viewing.)

That's a pretty cool theory, I gotta say.

[Valerius Dover]

And now I've started the Shadow Dragon Saga off with 4 episodes.

-The Black Smoke Dragon is a real douche to everyone. And it's glorious.
-Haze Shenron, the Two-Star Dragon born from Upa's wish to revive Bora, is sort of a warm up boss here, but Giru gets to have some heroic moments here! Also, Haze correctly refers to Bora's killer as Mercenary Tao, rather than General Tao.
-Rage Shenron, The Five-Star Dragon born from the wish to revive Goku to fight the Saiyans, is reliant on electricity, pretty much.
-Oceanus Shenron aka Princess Oto the Six-Star Dragon is the most interesting one so far. She also uses tricks like water and cyclones to try to beat Goku. Also, they really have fun with her origins being the wish Oolong made for The World's Most Comfortable Pair of Underwear.
-Colm has an accent of some sort, apparently from the UK or Ireland.
-Goku hums the DB Opening theme! Nice reference added to the many others!
-There's a really good music track played at the end of the Oceanus episode. Why do I get the feeling it'll never pop up again?
-Also, new ending theme! This has great singing and melody! But those lyrics are....odd.

[buutenks]

I thoroughly enjoyed GT from the beginning till the first episode of the shadow dragon saga,which i disliked and stopped watching.But the exploration episodes,bebi and super 17 were very awesome.