Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
So if Gohan lost SSJ 2 and Mystic by not training. <--
Not fact just my theory
What about Goten and Trunks?
They probably stopped training as soon as Boo died. No matter what they're stronger than Earth besides the obvious. No villain was going to match them especially w/ fusion. They might actually trained as it looked cool(Goten W/ Goku perhaps for a brief period And Trunks and Vegeta) until they realize it's not as fun. So I'm guessing not as soon as Boo died but 1-6 months at best before they stopped.
Why did they stop training anyway? They did basis warm ups as kids. Even fighting each other. I understand not training like Goku or Vegeta (as stated earlier) but shit.
Seeing as Goten and Trunks stopped training going by EoZ as Goku forced Goten to trained (father son bonding . Wish we had more Goten and Trunks interaction) and same with Trunks. Is it possible that they lost the SSJ ability. Or could not have the knowledge of SSJ no more? "I think I can turn SSJ". I mean they perhaps didn't train for 10+ years. If Gohan loses a transformation in that time period. Shouldn't Goten and Trunks?
I don't see it happening. Gohan, in spite of whatever happened to him, still basically kept the same position he'd have in the movie if he were Ultimate. Weaker than Goku and Vegeta with their god training and Freeza, the main villain, but stronger than everyone else. He also is the only one carrying the traditional SSJ look in the movie, which was likely the main reason to make him go SSJ there.
Goten and Trunks losing SSJ would have no point. They'd get dropped to the level of the humans, and there'd be no benefit from it marketing-wise, unlike Gohan's transformation.
With how naturally the ability to transform came to them, I'd be very surprised if they ever lost it. Don't forget that with Gohan, it was something he actually had to train to do. But for the kids it's essentially an innate ability.
Kaboom hit the nail on the head. Goten and Trunks were much more naturally gifted as far as tapping into raw power goes, than Gohan was at his age, that they really didn't need to put in much effort into become a SSJ in the first place. So I highly doubt they'll ever lose the transformation.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Wed May 06, 2015 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Unlikely cause it came to them naturally. Though who knows if they think it will be funny, they'll have Gohan, Goten, and Trunks forget all about martial arts next.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I agree that since they were able to obtain SSJ so naturally, that they will not be unable to transform in the future. Now, the loss of power from not training is a completely different matter. For example, if they get rusty enough, they might drop down to how strong they were before they started training in the ROSAT.
Considering Goten and Trunks transformed based on instict, rather than training, I would doubt that they would lose it. They probably had grown weaker in the years, but they wouldn;t lose the form.
I don't see how the boys would lose their ability to transform into SSJ. Considering how easily they were able to obtain the form, it seems unlikely that lack of training would be enough to take away their ability to transform.
Gohan losing his ability to go SSJ2 seems a little different. This form obviously yields much greater power than the standard SSJ transformation, so it also probably comes with higher requirements of maintenance. The SSJ2 form was also something Gohan really had to push for, and was something that came at a time of need. During a time of peace where he is not involved in any training, I could see him losing the ability to go SSJ2. Regardless, I could still see him being able to transform into FPSSJ at the very least.
The Ultimate form is a little more confusing as it seemed more like a mastered state of control that was obtained through special means. It seemed to be better defined as more of a controlled state which enabled him to tap into large reserves of power released from his potential versus an actual transformation.
Last edited by supercat on Thu May 28, 2015 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think they won't use Fusion anymore, but will likely use Super Saiyan separately. Granted, they could train to remaster Fusion again as well as with SS3.
Yeah, Gotenks is a different story. The kids may not lose their SS ability, but they've almost definitely gotten weaker. I wouldn't be surprised if Gotenks has likewise lost a lot of the power he gained in the RoSaT, and even maybe his SS3 capability along with it.
Do Saiyans actually get weaker from not training? I mean I guess we have very few examples, but even after 7 years Gohan supposedly didn't lose any power at all, just his hidden potential rage powers.
singsing wrote:Do Saiyans actually get weaker from not training? I mean I guess we have very few examples, but even after 7 years Gohan supposedly didn't lose any power at all, just his hidden potential rage powers.
Gohan did get weaker after the 7 year gap between Cell and Buu. To what extent is not specified, but he was definitely not at the same level as he was during the Cell Arc. We could always say that he was simply "rusty" after years of not training / fighting, but the impression I got was that he did lose some power. While it didn't seem like a tremendous decrease in power, it was pretty clear that his power did decline to some extent.
singsing wrote:Do Saiyans actually get weaker from not training? I mean I guess we have very few examples, but even after 7 years Gohan supposedly didn't lose any power at all, just his hidden potential rage powers.
Gohan did get weaker after the 7 year gap between Cell and Buu. To what extent is not specified, but he was definitely not at the same level as he was during the Cell Arc. We could always say that he was simply "rusty" after years of not training / fighting, but the impression I got was that he did lose some power. While it didn't seem like a tremendous decrease in power, it was pretty clear that his power did decline to some extent.
The supplementary guides all say that Gohan didn't get weaker, just lost his rage boosts.
singsing wrote:Do Saiyans actually get weaker from not training? I mean I guess we have very few examples, but even after 7 years Gohan supposedly didn't lose any power at all, just his hidden potential rage powers.
Gohan did get weaker after the 7 year gap between Cell and Buu. To what extent is not specified, but he was definitely not at the same level as he was during the Cell Arc. We could always say that he was simply "rusty" after years of not training / fighting, but the impression I got was that he did lose some power. While it didn't seem like a tremendous decrease in power, it was pretty clear that his power did decline to some extent.
The supplementary guides all say that Gohan didn't get weaker, just lost his rage boosts.
Then why does Vegeta make remarks about Gohan being weaker than he was when he fought Cell?
supercat wrote:
Then why does Vegeta make remarks about Gohan being weaker than he was when he fought Cell?
Because he was fuckin' ENRAGED when he fought Cell as a SSJ2.
I could actually see that being very plausible. I also think that the fact that his skills and keen sense weren't as polished as they were during his fight with Cell, and how he was probably rusty overall from his sedentary lifestyle all contributed towards giving off a "weaker" impression.
Even with the assumption of Gohan actually losing power, I always thought it was a very negligible amount.
. Wish we had more Goten and Trunks interaction) and same with Trunks. Is it possible that they lost the SSJ ability. Or could not have the knowledge of SSJ no more? "I think I can turn SSJ". I mean they perhaps didn't train for 10+ years. If Gohan loses a transformation in that time period. Shouldn't Goten and Trunks?
