GT Trunks' power

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

If you follow in-universe information there isn't a way for them to get that strong really. And I wouldn't drag Gohan into the same bracket as Goten and Trunks. He is clearly a different type of hybrid compared to his brother and Trunks. Because Gohan was stronger than his father from the start. Look at Goten and Trunks. Do we see them busting out strength above their parents without fusion? Gohan is pretty much an anomaly. As for Goten and Trunks being on par with Gohan. You realise that both of them were sparring with each other. So yes, they are going to receive huge gains to this point. Gohan had also lost a chunk of strength. If he was at what his power was at the Cell Games then Gohan would obviously be quite a bit above Goten and Trunks.

You're talking as though Goten and Trunks logically shouldn't have a lot of potential when that's not suggested. With minimal training they're already stronger than CG Super Saiyans, and it's stated the main reason Gohan had so much potential was because he was a hybrid, and Goten and Trunks are also.

Honestly we don't know if SSJ is stronger than his "Ultimate" form. Because we have conflicting arguments against that. If he was more powerful in his SSJ form then he should have used it against Rild. But then he did use it against Goten. So we have one feat showing that his SSJ form is stronger than his "Ultimate" form. And then we have another feat counteracting that because he never used it. So we can't say that either of them are more likely. Because they both have conflicting points.

That's not conflicting, that's like saying Vegeta and Trunks not using Grade 2 against the Cell kids is proof that SS Grade 2 < regular Super Saiyan. Gohan also uses Super Saiyan later on against Super #17. And also against Super Yi Xing Long.

And what proves that Base Goku (M2) is above SSJ Goku (Early GT)?

Giru had records of Goku using SS against Ledgic, and the Sigma Force were still confident in taking on Goku when they read the data.

Base Goku (M2) > Rild > Super Mega Cannon Sigma > Sigmas (individual) > SS Goku (vs. Ledgic)

[Hitiro]

You're talking as though Goten and Trunks logically shouldn't have a lot of potential when that's not suggested. With minimal training they're already stronger than CG Super Saiyans, and it's stated the main reason Gohan had so much potential was because he was a hybrid, and Goten and Trunks are also.

Minimal training is them sparring. Which has been proven to be the best way to increase power in the story. Akira Toriyama said himself that Goku was a 6 and Beerus was a 10 but the longer Goku would have fought Beerus the smaller the gape would have become. Gohan was naturally born with a massive reserve of hidden power. Really the only reason Goten and Trunks are where they are is because of Lamarckism which is the idea that an organism can pass on their characteristics developed during their lifetime onto their offspring.

It is the thing where a child born from parents who have become become body builders will have a genetic advantage at gaining muscle over another child who doesn't have parents like that. Goten and Trunks were both conceived when their fathers were at incredibly high battle powers compared to Gohan who was born when Goku had a very low battle power compared to his Cell Games self.

That's not conflicting, that's like saying Vegeta and Trunks not using Grade 2 against the Cell kids is proof that SS Grade 2 < regular Super Saiyan. Gohan also uses Super Saiyan later on against Super #17. And also against Super Yi Xing Long.

How is that the same? Vegeta already explained why SSJG2 is inferior to SSJ because it drains excessive energy. So it's not like that at all. We don't even know if Vegeta and Trunks gained FPSSJ during this time. Gohan still didn't use SSJ against Rild though. So there is a conflict point even if he had used SSJ in other instances.

Giru had records of Goku using SS against Ledgic, and the Sigma Force were still confident in taking on Goku when they read the data.

Base Goku (M2) > Rild > Super Mega Cannon Sigma > Sigmas (individual) > SS Goku (vs. Ledgic)

Did Giru's records show that Goku was using his full power? Because I'm sorry. This doesn't mean anything if we're going to use that. Goku could easily suppress himself to the point where he is only a couple of times stronger than his base form. Because if Goku is having trouble with an enemy in his base form then that person is only going to need so much strength more than Goku to cause that problem. In which case going full power as a SSJ is just overkill when he can lower himself to a level where he can have fun fighting the opponent.

Early GT
Goku: 100%
SSJ Goku: 2-3%

M2
Goku: 100%
SSJ Goku 100%

So yes, Base Goku(M2) can easily become stronger than SSJ Goku(Early GT) if he had suppressed.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Minimal training is them sparring. Which has been proven to be the best way to increase power in the story. Akira Toriyama said himself that Goku was a 6 and Beerus was a 10 but the longer Goku would have fought Beerus the smaller the gape would have become. Gohan was naturally born with a massive reserve of hidden power. Really the only reason Goten and Trunks are where they are is because of Lamarckism which is the idea that an organism can pass on their characteristics developed during their lifetime onto their offspring.

It is the thing where a child born from parents who have become become body builders will have a genetic advantage at gaining muscle over another child who doesn't have parents like that. Goten and Trunks were both conceived when their fathers were at incredibly high battle powers compared to Gohan who was born when Goku had a very low battle power compared to his Cell Games self.

Future Trunks and present Trunks are born from Vegetas who shouldn't be much different, since they were still concieved before Vegeta reached SSG2 and MSS levels of power.

How is that the same? Vegeta already explained why SSJG2 is inferior to SSJ because it drains excessive energy. So it's not like that at all. We don't even know if Vegeta and Trunks gained FPSSJ during this time.

It's bad for sustained fights, and it's clearly not that excessive, Vegeta used it for a long time against 2nd stage Cell and had no problem. Vegeta could've just used Grade 2 for like 1 minute to finish of the Cell Jr, since the Cell Jr was only evenly matched with Vegeta's SS form.

Gohan still didn't use SSJ against Rild though. So there is a conflict point even if he had used SSJ in other instances.

So when he transformed against Goten, Super 17, and Yi Xing Long, it did nothing? You're clinging on to one single scene which doesn't even specifically say it doesn't boost his power. The fight was very short, not even a full minute, Gohan didn't even have time to transform.

Did Giru's records show that Goku was using his full power? Because I'm sorry. This doesn't mean anything if we're going to use that. Goku could easily suppress himself to the point where he is only a couple of times stronger than his base form. Because if Goku is having trouble with an enemy in his base form then that person is only going to need so much strength more than Goku to cause that problem. In which case going full power as a SSJ is just overkill when he can lower himself to a level where he can have fun fighting the opponent.

Early GT
Goku: 100%
SSJ Goku: 2-3%

M2
Goku: 100%
SSJ Goku 100%

So yes, Base Goku(M2) can easily become stronger than SSJ Goku(Early GT) if he had suppressed.

Burden of proof is on you to prove he's suppressed. Those kind of things are always stated.

I also find it very asinine for Goku to stay in a suppressed state and let Ledgic beat him around, and then transform into a Super Saiyan state suppressed multiple times below his full power base state instead of just using his full base power to beat Ledgic.

Giru also recorded Goku's power against Luud, are you saying Goku was staying suppressed the whole fight, letting Luud be a lot stronger than himself and risking Pan's life? Not likely.

[Hitiro]

Future Trunks and present Trunks are born from Vegetas who shouldn't be much different, since they were still concieved before Vegeta reached SSG2 and MSS levels of power.

There is no way to prove that. Mirai Trunks had altered the timeline pretty heavily just by appearing. Vegeta from Mirai Trunks timeline wouldn't have been as strong as Z timeline Vegeta purely because Mirai Trunks came to warn them. For all we know Z timelines Trunks was conceived after Vegeta obtained SSJ instead of before in Mirai Trunks timeline. Which in my opinion is why Z timeline Trunks was able to become a SSJ at a young age instead of following the events that happened in Mirai Trunks timeline where he only get it in his teens. Either way, Mirai Trunks and Trunks are completely different because they both obtain SSJ at completely different times in their life.

It's bad for sustained fights, and it's clearly not that excessive, Vegeta used it for a long time against 2nd stage Cell and had no problem. Vegeta could've just used Grade 2 for like 1 minute to finish of the Cell Jr, since the Cell Jr was only evenly matched with Vegeta's SS form.

We don't know how much power SSJG2 supplies Vegeta. So we can't say that he would have finished Cell Jr in 1 minute. Cell says that they are just barely fighting evenly with the Cell Jr's. So the Cell Jr's still had the upper hand. Whether Vegeta could shrink the gap enough to finish them in 1 minute is entirely guess work. And as for Vegeta fighting against Cell we don't know how long that was. Manga's do not possess a way of distinguishing time so easily. Unless we were given running commentary about how much time had passed all we can do is guess.

So when he transformed against Goten, Super 17, and Yi Xing Long, it did nothing? You're clinging on to one single scene which doesn't even specifically say it doesn't boost his power. The fight was very short, not even a full minute, Gohan didn't even have time to transform.

I'm not saying it did nothing. My point was there is conflicting information in the story. To label it and say that one thing is more valid than the other when there is nothing to state such things is just silly. Yes, we can surmise that SSJ Gohan is above "Ultimate" Gohan. But given the way GT is a complete mess and given the way that people battle powers seem to fluctuate on a minute by minute bases, a prime example is base Goku tanking Omega Shenron's attacks so clearly base Goku > SSJ4 Goku right? Then we can't say anything for certain. I don't think you understand that. You're the one in this thread coming at me with absolutes like SSJ Gohan > Ultimate Gohan. When we've seen that the Toei are asshats when it comes to determining the strength of characters. We have a scene with SSJ4 Goku getting cut with glass for gods sake. If you want to go by feats then Goku from the start of dragon ball is more durable than SSJ4 Goku.

Burden of proof is on you to prove he's suppressed. Those kind of things are always stated.

I also find it very asinine for Goku to stay in a suppressed state and let Ledgic beat him around, and then transform into a Super Saiyan state suppressed multiple times below his full power base state instead of just using his full base power to beat Ledgic.

Giru also recorded Goku's power against Luud, are you saying Goku was staying suppressed the whole fight, letting Luud be a lot stronger than himself and risking Pan's life? Not likely.

I don't get where this "burden of proof" thing keeps coming from. Honestly. We're both in the same situation here. If you can't prove he was at full power in "early GT" you have as much burden to prove something as me. There isn't damning evidence either way. You can't just say "the burden of proof is on you" when there is a disagreement with your opinion. You aren't providing facts here. All we know for certain is the Sigma force are confident that they could beat "that" version of SSJ Goku. If his power is never suggested then we can either look at it like he is at full power or he is suppressed.

Ledgic says that Goku was already not fighting at his full power even before he transforms anyway. So this is a moot point really.

When does the Sigma Force say they were still confident on taking on Goku when they read the data anyway? The only quote I found mentioning the Sigma Force was by Rild:

Episode 17
Time: Roughly 10m30s
Context: After Rild has analyzed Goku's battle power
Rild: “Unbelievable... Where in the world does that child keep that much power? If we were to make these guys are enemies, then not even the Mega Cannon Sigma, our mightiest squad, would come away unscathed!”

And this quote suggests that the Sigma Force would not come out away unscathed. I believe this is before Giru shows them the records of Goku and the others.

Goku doesn't fight at full power against his other opponents most of the time throughout the story. And why would he go full power against something that absorbed Pan? He doesn't want to kill her. If Luud is 15% stronger than Goku. There is no reason for Goku to go 100% SSJ on him and attack him. Even if you want to say that SSJ's multiplier is much weaker now. There is no reason for Goku to exceed a power output that would be more than enough to deal with Luud. In most cases you only need 15% more power than someone to beat them from the Dragon Ball story. Goku doesn't want to completely obliterate Luud and risk destroying Pan. Even if SSJ was scaled back to 2x that would be much too much to use against Luud.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

There is no way to prove that. Mirai Trunks had altered the timeline pretty heavily just by appearing. Vegeta from Mirai Trunks timeline wouldn't have been as strong as Z timeline Vegeta purely because Mirai Trunks came to warn them. For all we know Z timelines Trunks was conceived after Vegeta obtained SSJ instead of before in Mirai Trunks timeline. Which in my opinion is why Z timeline Trunks was able to become a SSJ at a young age instead of following the events that happened in Mirai Trunks timeline where he only get it in his teens. Either way, Mirai Trunks and Trunks are completely different because they both obtain SSJ at completely different times in their life.

I know, I'm just saying that the gap between the Vegetas of the two timelines isn't nearly as gargantuan as the gap between the Gokus that conceived Gohan and Goten.

We don't know how much power SSJG2 supplies Vegeta. So we can't say that he would have finished Cell Jr in 1 minute.

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P5.3-4
Piccolo: “It’s started. His ki is increasing and increasing!!!”
Tenshinhan: “It-it’s a stupendous ki…!”

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P10.2
Context: as Vegeta continues to turn into a Super Saiyan Grade II
Piccolo: “…It-it’s still increasing…!”

I can't help but scratch my chest at these quotes implying the boost from Grade 2 isn't big enough to help one quickly finish off someone who's barely stronger than themself at best.

Cell says that they are just barely fighting evenly with the Cell Jr's. So the Cell Jr's still had the upper hand.

Children which perfect-form Cell births through his tail. In the story, he gives birth to seven. Their appearance is like perfect-form Cell, only small and cute. However, their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and their personalities were cruelty itself.

Whether Vegeta could shrink the gap enough to finish them in 1 minute is entirely guess work. And as for Vegeta fighting against Cell we don't know how long that was. Manga's do not possess a way of distinguishing time so easily. Unless we were given running commentary about how much time had passed all we can do is guess.

All I'm saying it's not like Vegeta's quickly winded or drained from using the form within one minute. If the boost as big as Piccolo implies, and the Cell kids aren't much stronger than Vegeta, I really don't see Vegeta not being able to finish off the Cell kids quickly with the form instead of struggling.

I'm not saying it did nothing. My point was there is conflicting information in the story. To label it and say that one thing is more valid than the other when there is nothing to state such things is just silly.

What's silly is claiming "Oh! Gohan didn't transform in a 30 second fight where Rild didn't give the chance to! GT is just sooooo inconsistent! Base Gohan >>>> Super Saiyan Gohan!"

Yes, we can surmise that SSJ Gohan is above "Ultimate" Gohan. But given the way GT is a complete mess and given the way that people battle powers seem to fluctuate on a minute by minute bases,

I hate this typical excuse.

It's no secret Toei isn't known for their consistency, but GT isn't nearly as hectic as people claim it to be strength wise. Yes, some things deserve a head scratch, but most of it is easy to piece together if you just sit down and analyze the material instead of tossing it the window out the second the blood starts to pump into your brain.

a prime example is base Goku tanking Omega Shenron's attacks so clearly base Goku > SSJ4 Goku right?

Or Goku just used energy from the Genki Dama to guard himself???

Then we can't say anything for certain. I don't think you understand that. You're the one in this thread coming at me with absolutes like SSJ Gohan > Ultimate Gohan. When we've seen that the Toei are asshats when it comes to determining the strength of characters. We have a scene with SSJ4 Goku getting cut with glass for gods sake. If you want to go by feats then Goku from the start of dragon ball is more durable than SSJ4 Goku.

In Dragon Ball, Kid Trunks is struggling with 150x gravity, while pre-Zenkai Namek Goku has 100x gravity mastered. Do we conclude that Kid Trunks can't be much stronger than that Goku? Is Toriyama an asshat who can't keep a consistent story now? What about Buu saga Goku not even being able to lift 40 tons? Saiyan saga Vegeta threatening to blow up the earth with a galick gun and Super Saiyan Kid Trunks' blast only making a small wave? SS3 Goku shaking the entire planet and Super Vegetto doing nothing?

I don't get where this "burden of proof" thing keeps coming from. Honestly. We're both in the same situation here. If you can't prove he was at full power in "early GT" you have as much burden to prove something as me. There isn't damning evidence either way. You can't just say "the burden of proof is on you" when there is a disagreement with your opinion. You aren't providing facts here. All we know for certain is the Sigma force are confident that they could beat "that" version of SSJ Goku. If his power is never suggested then we can either look at it like he is at full power or he is suppressed.

You can't expect me to prove a negative. You're making the claim he was suppressed, so prove it. There's never any indication given he was suppressed.

It's simply amazing that the quotes suggest Base Goku > Sigma Cannon > SS Goku (early), and instead of taking it at face value, people will just simply twist/warp it or just flat out make things up.

What evidence is there to support that Early GT SS Goku is above the Sigmas anyway? That doesn't involve making things up?

Ledgic says that Goku was already not fighting at his full power even before he transforms anyway. So this is a moot point really.

Which would just mean Goku isn't using his transformations.

I really don't see any logic in Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan that' suppressed multiple times below his base instead of just powering up in base to beat Ledgic.

I'm also curious how the hell Toei expects us to find out Goku's suppressed if they don't give any indication at all.

When does the Sigma Force say they were still confident on taking on Goku when they read the data anyway? The only quote I found mentioning the Sigma Force was by Rild:
-
And this quote suggests that the Sigma Force would not come out away unscathed. I believe this is before Giru shows them the records of Goku and the others.

It was before Giru gave him the data.

[Hitiro]

I know, I'm just saying that the gap between the Vegetas of the two timelines isn't nearly as gargantuan as the gap between the Gokus that conceived Gohan and Goten.

Well, we just don't know. It could be a pretty large gap. He may have been 2x or even 4x stronger than his Mirai Trunks timeline version. And like I said, he may have already had SSJ before he conceived Trunks. Which is why Trunks can easily go SSJ.

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P5.3-4
Piccolo: “It’s started. His ki is increasing and increasing!!!”
Tenshinhan: “It-it’s a stupendous ki…!”

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P10.2
Context: as Vegeta continues to turn into a Super Saiyan Grade II
Piccolo: “…It-it’s still increasing…!”

I can't help but scratch my chest at these quotes implying the boost from Grade 2 isn't big enough to help one quickly finish off someone who's barely stronger than themself at best.

For starters, we don't know where Vegeta's Ki was sitting before he initiated the transformation. He could have easily been suppressed. They usually are before a fight and we don't get any confirmation on whether they are suppressed or not unless they are actually fighting. So it would make sense that Piccolo and Tenshinhan are astonished. Don't forget that Vegeta training in the RoSaT too. So he already should have a bit more than his Pre-RoSaT self. Secondly, if you're going to tell me that Grade 2 is a large boost then where is SSJ2 supposed to sit? The guidebooks have SSJ2 at 2x SSJ. So Grade 2 can be anywhere from 1.1x SSJ up to 1.9x SSJ. Though I highly doubt it is on the larger end.

Children which perfect-form Cell births through his tail. In the story, he gives birth to seven. Their appearance is like perfect-form Cell, only small and cute. However, their power was equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the time, and their personalities were cruelty itself.

All I'm saying it's not like Vegeta's quickly winded or drained from using the form within one minute. If the boost as big as Piccolo implies, and the Cell kids aren't much stronger than Vegeta, I really don't see Vegeta not being able to finish off the Cell kids quickly with the form instead of struggling.

Quoting the Daizenshuu 4 is useless in this scenario. Because we have a direct quote in the manga that specifically says that Vegeta and Trunks are barely fighting evenly against the Cell Jr's.

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell (to Gohan): “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”
Note: Cell says that “Vegeta ya Trunks” are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for ‘and’, meaning the things listed aren’t necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell’s line doesn’t necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they’re the first examples to come to mind

So the Cell Jr's were more powerful than them. To the point that they were barely managing to fight them evenly. If the Cell Jr's were a little stronger then Vegeta and Trunks wouldn't even be able to fight them evenly. So Vegeta and Trunks going SSJG2 may allow them to fight more evenly or even give them a slight advantage. But they are definitely not going to be able to beat the Cell Jr's in a minute.

I hate this typical excuse.

It's no secret Toei isn't known for their consistency, but GT isn't nearly as hectic as people claim it to be strength wise. Yes, some things deserve a head scratch, but most of it is easy to piece together if you just sit down and analyze the material instead of tossing it the window out the second the blood starts to pump into your brain.

Then tell me why Gohan didn't use SSJ then? There is no point in saying that he didn't have a chance to. Because he had plenty of chances. He even managed against Super #17 who is stronger than Rild. It pretty much is as hectic as people claim it.

a prime example is base Goku tanking Omega Shenron's attacks so clearly base Goku > SSJ4 Goku right?

Or Goku just used energy from the Genki Dama to guard himself???

Why has this never been a factor since this time? You're always going on about the burden of proof. I'm not one to pin everything on a single person because they have a slightly different opinion than me. Nothing says that he wasn't using the energy from the Genki Dama so it's fine for you to interpret it like this if you so choose. But this is the one and only case in which it supposedly happened. So I find it hard to believe in all honesty.

In Dragon Ball, Kid Trunks is struggling with 150x gravity, while pre-Zenkai Namek Goku has 100x gravity mastered. Do we conclude that Kid Trunks can't be much stronger than that Goku? Is Toriyama an asshat who can't keep a consistent story now? What about Buu saga Goku not even being able to lift 40 tons? Saiyan saga Vegeta threatening to blow up the earth with a galick gun and Super Saiyan Kid Trunks' blast only making a small wave? SS3 Goku shaking the entire planet and Super Vegetto doing nothing?

Kid Trunks struggling in 150x normal gravity means nothing. Because we don't know how this sort of stuff scales. For all we know 150x could mean Kid Trunks is much much stronger than Pre-Namek Goku. There are a lot of unknown factors surrounding this. Kid Trunks also doesn't have the muscles of an adult. So we could conclude that his amping of his strength via Ki does not amount to as much as the adults. And the same can be said for Goku lifting 40 tons in the Boo saga. There are a lot of unknown factors surrounding this too. We've never seen a character weight train while flying. We don't know what the planet Goku is on is like, for all we know it could have a similar gravity to Kaio's planet. SSJ Kid Trunks blast is another thing we don't know about. Ki attacks have always been something that doesn't have enough information about it. We see a lot of attacks more powerful than Vegeta's Galick Gun yet they would possibly do less destructive damage than it. For all we know Ki attacks can be manipulated to destroy or do nothing but disintegrate. And again, we've had several instances of people shaking the planet at lower levels but at higher levels they haven't. So we can't possibly understand why. I've always believed it's the way their Ki escapes their bodies. If the transition is smooth then there is no adverse effects on the environment. If there is difficulty releasing it from their bodies then it causes effects to the environment. I also believe that is why characters have sparks sometimes. It's the way their energy escapes from their body, causing a pressure to build up like tectonic plates pressing against each other until they give way.

But really I can only think of one reason why SSJ4 would get cut by glass. His Ki is lower than Goku's at the beginning of Dragon Ball. For that to be true he either suppressed his Ki or lost it. And Goku would not have survived the attacks in either case. So yeah. It really doesn't make sense.

You can't expect me to prove a negative. You're making the claim he was suppressed, so prove it. There's never any indication given he was suppressed.

You can't expect me to prove a negative either. That is why this whole burden of proof thing is silly. You're in the same boat as me because there is nothing to prove that he was at full power just as there is no indication that he was suppressed. So the burden of proof shouldn't fall solely on me in this argument. It would make more sense if you had things to back up your statement. Then the burden of proof would really fall on me because you would have evidence pointing to the contrary.

It's simply amazing that the quotes suggest Base Goku > Sigma Cannon > SS Goku (early), and instead of taking it at face value, people will just simply twist/warp it or just flat out make things up.

I'm asking you where is this proof that Sigma Cannon could take SSJ Goku? Because the Giru data was given after Rild said that Sigma Cannon wouldn't come out of a fight unscathed with Base Goku. Giru offered the data to combat Goku being a difficult opponent in the first place. If they had seen the way he fought before they found out that Sigma Cannon wouldn't come out unscathed in a fight then I would tend to agree with you. I also don't see any of them saying they could take Goku after seeing the fighting data.

What evidence is there to support that Early GT SS Goku is above the Sigmas anyway? That doesn't involve making things up?

Tell me what evidence is there to support that Early Gt SSJ Goku isn't above them? Because they got the fighting data for the sole reason that Rild thought they would have problems with base Goku anyway.

Ledgic says that Goku was already not fighting at his full power even before he transforms anyway. So this is a moot point really.

Which would just mean Goku isn't using his transformations.

Why? Ledgic didn't seem to know Goku could transform. In fact he was shocked. And why is it that in all of dragon ball's story that transformations are never included when people talk about them not fighting at full power? The only other reference to hidden power were by magical beings finding out the Saiyan's energy in the Boo arc. Does Ledgic have some sort of magic sensing ability?

I really don't see any logic in Goku transforming into a Super Saiyan that' suppressed multiple times below his base instead of just powering up in base to beat Ledgic.

Why? Goku is often lowering his power in transformations to have a good fight. He wasn't at full power against Pure Boo or Fat Boo, despite being stronger than both. He also fought against Cell holding back for a period. Against Yakon he was not outputting his full power as a Saiyan or SSJ if you follow the BP to Kiri scale.

I'm also curious how the hell Toei expects us to find out Goku's suppressed if they don't give any indication at all.

I'm also curious as to how Toei expects us to find out Goku is at full power if they don't give any indication at all. Because in all the fights I've seen before GT we're given an indication of when he is using full power too if it hasn't indicated that he is suppressed. He says that he gave his all against Cell, he said that he threw everything at Freeza, he said that he pushed himself to his limits against Vegeta. And when we aren't told these things we get told he is suppressed or holding back. The only time this becomes fuzzy is when he battles Oob. But given that these chapters are vague to possibly include further stories during the 10 year gap then it is understandable. We never get told anything definitive towards the end of the manga. Like what happened 5 years ago when they last saw Bulma, etc.

It was before Giru gave him the data.

I checked the episode for this though. You'll have to tell me when specifically. Because the only quote I found was of Rild. Then Giru says he'll give them Goku's fighting Data.

Edit: I just realised something. If they did in fact say this before Giru gave the data to them. How would they know what SSJ Goku was like Pre-M2? This has all been on the premise that they knew what SSJ Goku was like Pre-M2 but they only know what he was like after Giru gives them the data. So this is a logical fallacy on your part. The only time they can gauge Base Goku's strength was before they caught him and put him to sleep. But then he could have been suppressed because otherwise it wouldn't make sense that putting Goku to sleep increased his base power to the point that Sigma Force wouldn't come out unscathed in a battle with him. And they never fought him while he was a SSJ until Goku was against them and Rild. So they literally have no idea what his SSJ form is like until Giru gives them the data.

[Confidence Matters]

Ledgic wrecked the fuck out of Trunks without trying. Base Goku was able to do much better against Ledgic. Base Goku clearly is stronger than Base Trunks.

Ledgic is clearly likely the strongest minor antagonist next to the Sigma Force, who were all stated to be the strongest villains up until that point (even when Rhild shows up, he apparently still isn't stronger than the Sigma Force... neither when he fuses with them nor when he reaches his metal form... kinda weird, maybe I'm missing a quote or 2).

In fact, Ledgic can be stronger than Base Rhild if we go by how each antagonist did against Base Goku.

If Gohan was stronger than Trunks, then Rhild in his base form is far beyond Trunks since Base Rhild mollywhopped Gohan.

[Hugo Boss]

I think the most interesting part of this dialogue is that GT makers have Piccolo stronger than Trunks, but they don't have to cite every single person that is stronger than him. That is a bit similar to when Cell cites people that were fighting back the Cell Jrs., when we can see that, besides Vegeta and Trunks, Piccolo is also able to.

Why would they leave out one single person though? Trunks only says Vegeta, Gohan, and Piccolo, and uses 'and' instead of 'ya', what reason would their be to believe Good Buu is above Trunks based off that.

Not exactly. Trunks says "Gohan", "and Dad" and continues by saying "not to mention Piccolo". The way he says is like he is remembering some names, but not excluding the possibility of forgetting someone. I believe Boo is more powerful than Trunks because he is comparable to Rilldo.