Tenshinhan's strength at the end of the series

[Darkprince410]

I can't help but feel if they were as weak as some people seem to suggest, the Cell Jr's wouldn't have just given them a pasting, they'd of sliced them in two with each punch or kick they delivered upon them.

He had them intentionally holding back in order to prolong their suffering and force Gohan to get angry. If Cell himself can suppress his strength to the point that he can keep from killing Mr. Satan with a single hit, then the Cell Jr.s can certainly hold back their strength enough to keep from outright killing Kuririn and the others.

Remember, Kuririn was still under 100,000 following his potential being released by Saichorou (75,000 according to V-Jump), and the extent of his training between then and the Cell Games was all done on his own, without any kind of training partner or higher than Earth gravity available to him. It's highly, highly unlikely, given the jumps we've seen from him in the past, to assume him to go from 75,000 to the low millions in that span of time. I think it'd be generous to assume him to gain 10x his strength in that period of time, let alone 30-40x.

[soduh2]

Akira Toriyama is to George Lucas

as

Tenshinhan's strength is to Han Solo's shooting

[Lord Beerus]

Akira Toriyama is to George Lucas

as

Tenshinhan's strength is to Han Solo's shooting

Not really a good comparison.

[MarCas92]

You really think that someone with the power of 1% level Freeza could have actually done absolutely anything against a character like cell?

Piccolo was able to keep 50% Freeza at bay and he wasn't even close to his power.

He didn't even do damage. He just held him back and it almost ended up killing him.

well,perhaps power levels in general dont mean as much as we think.

also that is quite a great avatar you have,the kaioken atack was my favourite technique in dragon ball z
i would really like to have seen Tenshinhan and/or yamcha learning it.

I never took power levels seriously. But they exist so....

Also, thanks! It's one of my faves too. I can't believe that Tenshinhan didn't learn/master it. But at least he and Yamcha have it in Xenoverse.

[soduh2]

Akira Toriyama is to George Lucas

as

Tenshinhan's strength is to Han Solo's shooting

Not really a good comparison.

Not perfect, but it fits. A vocal group of fans disagreeing with the creator of a work of fiction. Said disagreement is based on how much the creator's word is accepted over the creator's work. If the work of a creator contradicts the creator's word (*subjectively or objectively*), which should be held to a higher regard? Should the fan reconcile the contradiction to the creator's word, should the creator be held to their previous standard, or should the fan be free to interpret things their own way?

[The Monkey King]

Piccolo was able to keep 50% Freeza at bay and he wasn't even close to his power.

He didn't even do damage. He just held him back and it almost ended up killing him.

Piccolo caught him off gaurd with one solid kick, this was after he took power from Gohan and Krillin as well.
If Freeza saw him coming and had time to brace himself he wouldn't have moved an inch.

While in Tien's case Cell saw the attack coming and was still effected by it.

[tienfan]

i did not know tien and yamcha could use the kaioken in xenoverse,interesting to know.
i think perhaps the reason yamcha and tien didnt learn it was because king kai just didnt believe they had the necessary control over
their bodies/ki to learn it which is obviously not true( at least for tien) since tien is a master of the tri-beam technique
or maybe king kai would feel a litle insulted to have seen not only goku but other z figthers master it as well when he himself couldnt?

[Hitiro]

i did not know Tenshinhan and yamcha could use the kaioken in xenoverse,interesting to know.
i think perhaps the reason yamcha and Tenshinhan didnt learn it was because king kai just didnt believe they had the necessary control over
their bodies/ki to learn it which is obviously not true( at least for Tenshinhan) since Tenshinhan is a master of the tri-beam technique
or maybe king kai would feel a litle insulted to have seen not only goku but other z figthers master it as well when he himself couldnt?

There is a bit of dialogue from Tenshinhan in the manga where he says about learning what Goku learned and adding a few twists in order to catch up with Goku. So it is possible that he learned Kaioken and altered it to suit him more.

[Blackstripe]

It would make perfect sense for Tenshinhan to be stronger than Krillin base on feats, whereas you have to jump through many hoops to justify Krillin being stronger than Ten. So no, it doesn't make a bit of sense. Ten deserves to be much stronger. He never shows fear. He never backs down, no matter how daunting the foe. Krillin practically wets himself when faced with odds he knows he can't beat, outside of filler scenes where he attacks Cell and Buu. Ten never stops training, whereas Krillin slacks off constantly.

It honestly pisses me off that Toriyama keeps saying such ridiculous things, but it honestly isn't surprising. He's said a lot of foolish things lately. Just look at how Piccolo gets treated in the most recent movie.

[tienfan]

It would make perfect sense for Tenshinhan to be stronger than Krillin base on feats, whereas you have to jump through many hoops to justify Krillin being stronger than Ten. So no, it doesn't make a bit of sense. Ten deserves to be much stronger. He never shows fear. He never backs down, no matter how daunting the foe. Krillin practically wets himself when faced with odds he knows he can't beat, outside of filler scenes where he attacks Cell and Buu. Ten never stops training, whereas Krillin slacks off constantly.

It honestly pisses me off that Toriyama keeps saying such ridiculous things, but it honestly isn't surprising. He's said a lot of foolish things lately. Just look at how Piccolo gets treated in the most recent movie.

how was piccolo treated in the movie btw?

i didnt get the chance to see it

[Blackstripe]

It would make perfect sense for Tenshinhan to be stronger than Krillin base on feats, whereas you have to jump through many hoops to justify Krillin being stronger than Ten. So no, it doesn't make a bit of sense. Ten deserves to be much stronger. He never shows fear. He never backs down, no matter how daunting the foe. Krillin practically wets himself when faced with odds he knows he can't beat, outside of filler scenes where he attacks Cell and Buu. Ten never stops training, whereas Krillin slacks off constantly.

It honestly pisses me off that Toriyama keeps saying such ridiculous things, but it honestly isn't surprising. He's said a lot of foolish things lately. Just look at how Piccolo gets treated in the most recent movie.

how was piccolo treated in the movie btw?

i didnt get the chance to see it

He was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level.

[Darkprince410]

It would make perfect sense for Tenshinhan to be stronger than Krillin base on feats, whereas you have to jump through many hoops to justify Krillin being stronger than Ten. So no, it doesn't make a bit of sense. Ten deserves to be much stronger. He never shows fear. He never backs down, no matter how daunting the foe. Krillin practically wets himself when faced with odds he knows he can't beat, outside of filler scenes where he attacks Cell and Buu. Ten never stops training, whereas Krillin slacks off constantly.

After the Saiya-jin Saga, Tenshinhan's only "feats" involve the Ki Kou Hou, which is so powerful it does things that characters vastly more powerful than him aren't able to do.

Just because he acts braver than Kuririn doesn't mean that he should be considered stronger than him, and Tenshinhan's training is simply just not enough to catch up to Kuririn having his potential unlocked during the Freeza Saga.

[Hitiro]

He was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level.

Piccolo was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level in Freeza's army. That's what I've been told anyway. It's not on about Zarbon's level of strength but his level within Freeza's army. Military position really.

[ZombieVito]

He was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level.

Piccolo was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level in Freeza's army. That's what I've been told anyway. It's not on about Zarbon's level of strength but his level within Freeza's army. Military position really.

He was Zarbon level in terms of power since

Spoiler:

Freeza killed Tagoma so easily in his first form. Shisami obviously trained and reached Piccolo's level. They had an even fight after all.

[Hitiro]

He was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level.

Piccolo was beaten up by someone stated to be on Zarbon's level in Freeza's army. That's what I've been told anyway. It's not on about Zarbon's level of strength but his level within Freeza's army. Military position really.

He was Zarbon level in terms of power since

Spoiler:

Freeza killed Tagoma so easily in his first form. Shisami obviously trained and reached Piccolo's level. They had an even fight after all.

I saw Kamiccolo9 comment on this in another thread. He said that it was confirmed by some native Japanese people that him being Zarbon's level had nothing to do with power.

Didn't the native Japanese speakers here already tell us that the whole "Shisami is Zarbon level" thing refers only to his position in the organization, and was not referring to his power? Granted, I've been gone a while, but I'm almost certain that Kei at least has said that.

That's what I'm saying. From what I read in the movie thread from a native Japanese speaker who saw the movie, the term they used here referred to position, not strength.

[ZombieVito]

I saw Kamiccolo9 comment on this in another thread. He said that it was confirmed by some native Japanese people that him being Zarbon's level had nothing to do with power.

Both of them are still under 530,000.

The only logical solution is that Shisami trained.

[supercat]

I saw Kamiccolo9 comment on this in another thread. He said that it was confirmed by some native Japanese people that him being Zarbon's level had nothing to do with power.

Both of them are still under 530,000.

The only logical solution is that Shisami trained.

Agreed.

Whether the comparison was in reference rank or not seems irrelevant at this point. The fact that Tagoma was so easily dispatched by First Form Frieza highly implies he is far below 530,000. Furthermore, if Shisami was stronger than Tagoma, I think Sorbet would have taken him along to gather the Dragon Balls. It seems more than likely both Shisami and Tagoma are relatively close in strength, and both were below First Form Frieza (before training).

Let's put it this way, if Piccolo is indeed on par with Zarbon, and Gohan needed SSJ to defeat Shisami, then that would imply Base Gohan is below Zarbon level. This clearly would not make any sense at all.

Shisami training seems like a very plausible concept.

[Hitiro]

I saw Kamiccolo9 comment on this in another thread. He said that it was confirmed by some native Japanese people that him being Zarbon's level had nothing to do with power.

Both of them are still under 530,000.

The only logical solution is that Shisami trained.

Tagoma's definitely under 530,000. But why does Shisami need to be?

[supercat]

I saw Kamiccolo9 comment on this in another thread. He said that it was confirmed by some native Japanese people that him being Zarbon's level had nothing to do with power.

Both of them are still under 530,000.

The only logical solution is that Shisami trained.

Tagoma's definitely under 530,000. But why does Shisami need to be?

It certainly is a possibility that Shisami was initially around Piccolo / Cell Jr. level, and that he was far above Tagoma. However, I just feel if he was wielding that kind of power, some recognition of that power would have been given to him by Sorbet during their introduction to Frieza. In addition, if Shisami was that powerful, why would Sorbet decide to take Tagoma instead to collect the Dragon Balls? My only guess would be Tagoma was more intelligent, and their mission was supposed to be kept on the low, so they were intending on avoiding confrontation with the Z-Fighters. With that being said, couldn't someone who is around Piccolo / Cell Jr. tier at least have tagged along for the purpose of serving as a bodyguard?

[Hitiro]

It certainly is a possibility that Shisami was initially around Piccolo / Cell Jr. level, and that he was far above Tagoma. However, I just feel if he was wielding that kind of power, some recognition of that power would have been given to him by Sorbet during their introduction to Freeza. In addition, if Shisami was that powerful, why would Sorbet decide to take Tagoma instead to collect the Dragon Balls? My only guess would be Tagoma was more intelligent, and their mission was supposed to be kept on the low, so they were intending on avoiding confrontation with the Z-Fighters. With that being said, couldn't someone who is around Piccolo / Cell Jr. tier at least have tagged along for the purpose of serving as a bodyguard?

You'll have to forgive me but have you seen the movie? When does Shisami show up exactly? Because in the revival of F manga he isn't in the story until after the 4 month training gap Freeza took. It is highly possible that Freeza found this subordinate during the 4 months worth of training and hired him. Which is why Sorbet didn't take him to Earth. Because he wasn't part of Freeza's army at that point.

Edit: Seems I'm mixing up the movie with the manga. Shisami doesn't seem to show up in the manga?