Is Kibito just a really weak Kaioshin?

[hyperbeing1]

Kibito has displayed no feats whatsoever that show any indication that he is more powerful than the base saiyans. In fact, his inability to even budge the Z-Sword clearly shows that he is well below them. He just happens to be one of those characters where even power scaling is not applicable. With that in mind, the Z-Sword comparison with Gohan is probably the best thing we have to go by in terms of his power. At least for East Kaioshin, we get some form of power comparison where Freeza is mentioned.

actually i am getting my information from the diaz and it is possible he is just physically weaker then gohan at his base. Also bare in mind gohan had a zenkai at the time after he was nearly killed by majin buu. I remember hitiro i believe saying something along the lines that it is possible gohan is better able to channel ki to his physical strength then kibito or maybe kibito is better with using energy attacks or maybe has to rely on psychic or magical powers. also that was a semi gag scene and it doesn't suggest gohan is more powerful just physically stronger and again i never said he was equal or stronger then gohan merely that he is at maybe 75% as the diaz said he would be able to fight gohan at his base and give him considerable trouble. and as i wish to state i am comparing him to the pre-zenkai gohan.

Personally, I've never subscribed to the theory of Eastern Kaioshin or Kibito using some kind of Kai magic to keep up with the Z-Fighters. The whole scene with Eastern Kaioshin immobilizing Gohan to me seemed like nothing more than Kaioshin's way of manipulating ki. He may leverage his attacks / ki in such a way where its outward appearance can resemble magic.

Going back on topic, Gohan seemed like he was doing his best to mask his identity during the tournament. This most likely means he cannot fight anywhere near his full potential in base. Fighting all bundled up like that while making sure his shades don't fall off could be challenging against even against someone like Krillin. Even if Gohan did get a Zenkai, I find it unlikely that piror to his Zenkai he would be at the point where he can't even budge the Z-Sword. What I gather from this is Kibito is likely a good amount weaker than a Base Gohan (at full power) who hasn't been taking his training seriously.

i feel that i didn't make my point clear enough and i do apologize so i shall try to make it clearer as i talk. I am going by the Diaz which said that kibito would give gohan a tough fight as long as he is not ssj. Also i theorized that kibito was physicality weaker in terms of physical strength and may simply be more capable in ki manipulation. Now going with that theory i myself believe kaioshin is the same way that he is more skilled with ki manipulation then he is physically. The technique he used was telekinesis and i agree that kaioshin doesnt seem to really use magic other then magic materlization to me it just seems he has a huge amount of ki.

[hyperbeing1]

We know they stopped occuring after they the Freeza Arc. So yes, if you claim he got one, then it needs to be stated somewhere.

Ok i really see little point on them needing to say gohan needed a zenkai since by now everyone knows how a zenkai works if you believe they should or should not say this in order to prove it is your opinion and i will be honest that i myself cannot really give evidence on this other then speculation but i do not see any true logical flaws also cell had a zenkai after self destructing so they did not stop after the Freeza saga.

[Kamiccolo9]

We know they stopped occuring after they the Freeza Arc. So yes, if you claim he got one, then it needs to be stated somewhere.

Ok i really see little point on them needing to say gohan needed a zenkai since by now everyone knows how a zenkai works if you believe they should or should not say this in order to prove it is your opinion and i will be honest that i myself cannot really give evidence on this other then speculation but i do not see any true logical flaws also cell had a zenkai after self destructing so they did not stop after the Freeza saga.

Cell isn't a Saiyan. He just has their traits.

We have a direct example of Gohan not receiving a near death boost in the Buu Arc, when Dende heals him after his fight with Buuhan. Gohan's power is said not to have risen at all.

Neither Vegeta or Trunks powered up after the Androids beat them.
Goku wasn't noted to get stronger after getting healed at the Cell Games.

Nowhere after Goku's arrival to the Freeza fight does any Saiyan received near death boosts. One of the Daizenshuu even says that they are negligible after that point. If you want to claim that Gohan got one in the Buu Arc, then you need to provide evidence that he did.

[hyperbeing1]

We know they stopped occuring after they the Freeza Arc. So yes, if you claim he got one, then it needs to be stated somewhere.

Ok i really see little point on them needing to say gohan needed a zenkai since by now everyone knows how a zenkai works if you believe they should or should not say this in order to prove it is your opinion and i will be honest that i myself cannot really give evidence on this other then speculation but i do not see any true logical flaws also cell had a zenkai after self destructing so they did not stop after the Freeza saga.

Cell isn't a Saiyan. He just has their traits.

We have a direct example of Gohan not receiving a near death boost in the Buu Arc, when Dende heals him after his fight with Buuhan. Gohan's power is said not to have risen at all.

Neither Vegeta or Trunks powered up after the Androids beat them.
Goku wasn't noted to get stronger after getting healed at the Cell Games.

Nowhere after Goku's arrival to the Freeza fight does any Saiyan received near death boosts. One of the Daizenshuu even says that they are negligible after that point. If you want to claim that Gohan got one in the Buu Arc, then you need to provide evidence that he did.

1) cell had saiyan dna and has specifically said that it was his saiyan dna that made him stronger unless i am mistaken.
2)Gohan was not apparently near death from that fight just decently injured.
3) as i said just because it isn't stated it doesn't mean it did not happen.
4) goku was not near death just tired like gohan that is all.
5) this further supports my claim that gohan could have received a power increase but it was not so huge and actually kinda small.
As i said that i am merely using speculation but this in itself does not deny or contradict what the manga and diaz establishes the zenkai as. Wether you agree or not i cannot really go any further then say there is no indication they didn't get a power increase. Basically this is up to you if you agree or disagree with this speculation .

[Kamiccolo9]

1) cell had saiyan dna and has specifically said that it was his saiyan dna that made him stronger unless i am mistaken.
2)Gohan was not apparently near death from that fight just decently injured.
3) as i said just because it isn't stated it doesn't mean it did not happen.
4) goku was not near death just tired like gohan that is all.
5) this further supports my claim that gohan could have received a power increase but it was not so huge and actually kinda small.
As i said that i am merely using speculation but this in itself does not deny or contradict what the manga and diaz establishes the zenkai as.

It's not just "small." It's "negligible." It might as well not even be there. If it's there, it's not even noticeable.

[hyperbeing1]

1) cell had saiyan dna and has specifically said that it was his saiyan dna that made him stronger unless i am mistaken.
2)Gohan was not apparently near death from that fight just decently injured.
3) as i said just because it isn't stated it doesn't mean it did not happen.
4) goku was not near death just tired like gohan that is all.
5) this further supports my claim that gohan could have received a power increase but it was not so huge and actually kinda small.
As i said that i am merely using speculation but this in itself does not deny or contradict what the manga and diaz establishes the zenkai as.

It's not just "small." It's "negligible." It might as well not even be there. If it's there, it's not even noticeable.

i am sorry but i do not see any argument in this other then saying that their was a zenkai, but it is really small also if there is a increase even if it does near nothing is still existing if it is not really enough to help or be significant.

[Kamiccolo9]

1) cell had saiyan dna and has specifically said that it was his saiyan dna that made him stronger unless i am mistaken.
2)Gohan was not apparently near death from that fight just decently injured.
3) as i said just because it isn't stated it doesn't mean it did not happen.
4) goku was not near death just tired like gohan that is all.
5) this further supports my claim that gohan could have received a power increase but it was not so huge and actually kinda small.
As i said that i am merely using speculation but this in itself does not deny or contradict what the manga and diaz establishes the zenkai as.

It's not just "small." It's "negligible." It might as well not even be there. If it's there, it's not even noticeable.

i am sorry but i do not see any argument in this other then saying that their was a zenkai, but it is really small also if there is a increase even if it does near nothing is still existing if it is not really enough to help or be significant.

You were saying that the near-death power up was enough to allow him to lift the Z-Sword. If he was as strong as Kibito prior to that, that isn't an "insignificant" or "negligible" boost.

[hyperbeing1]

You were saying that the near-death power up was enough to allow him to lift the Z-Sword. If he was as strong as Kibito prior to that, that isn't an "insignificant" or "negligible" boost.

i believe there was a misunderstanding i never said kibito was as strong as gohan just strong enough to give him a descent fight as long as he is not ssj. If this is going with the idea that gohan was not gonna use full power then i can take a guess that kibito would be maybe around 60% or even less then gohans power.

[supercat]

i feel that i didn't make my point clear enough and i do apologize so i shall try to make it clearer as i talk. I am going by the Diaz which said that kibito would give gohan a tough fight as long as he is not ssj. Also i theorized that kibito was physicality weaker in terms of physical strength and may simply be more capable in ki manipulation. Now going with that theory i myself believe kaioshin is the same way that he is more skilled with ki manipulation then he is physically. The technique he used was telekinesis and i agree that kaioshin doesnt seem to really use magic other then magic materlization to me it just seems he has a huge amount of ki.

From what we've gathered so far, it's pretty apparent that ki is what also increases a fighter's strength physically. Sure, there are beings who are more physically durable than others, take Frieza for an example. His body is physically stronger and more durable than most of the other beings in DBZ, but ultimately someone with stronger ki would most likely be labeled as the stronger fighter. Kid Buu does not appear to be durable at all, but compared to someone who has better physical durability but weaker ki, he is still considered the stronger fighter. People would assume Nappa is stronger than Vegeta based on appearance, but Vegeta has him beat in all aspects because he has stronger ki. My view on this is that in the realm of DBZ, ki and physical strength are used interchangeably. It seems it's their ki that gives them the ability to display physical strength.

Hand to hand combat skills may be an advantage, but only if the two fighters have similar power. Ultimately when faced off against a stronger opponent, or an opponent with higher ki, simply having better fighting skills would most likely not yield a favorable outcome.

[hyperbeing1]

i feel that i didn't make my point clear enough and i do apologize so i shall try to make it clearer as i talk. I am going by the Diaz which said that kibito would give gohan a tough fight as long as he is not ssj. Also i theorized that kibito was physicality weaker in terms of physical strength and may simply be more capable in ki manipulation. Now going with that theory i myself believe kaioshin is the same way that he is more skilled with ki manipulation then he is physically. The technique he used was telekinesis and i agree that kaioshin doesnt seem to really use magic other then magic materlization to me it just seems he has a huge amount of ki.

From what we've gathered so far, it's pretty apparent that ki is what also increases a fighter's strength physically. Sure, there are beings who are more physically durable than others, take Freeza for an example. His body is physically stronger and more durable than most of the other beings in DBZ, but ultimately someone with stronger ki would most likely be labeled as the stronger fighter. Kid Buu does not appear to be durable at all, but compared to someone who has better physical durability but weaker ki, he is still considered the stronger fighter. People would assume Nappa is stronger than Vegeta based on appearance, but Vegeta has him beat in all aspects because he has stronger ki. My view on this is that in the realm of DBZ, ki and physical strength are used interchangeably. It seems it's their ki that gives them the ability to display physical strength.

Hand to hand combat skills may be an advantage, but only if the two fighters have similar power. Ultimately when faced off against a stronger opponent, or an opponent with higher ki, simply having better fighting skills would most likely not yield a favorable outcome.

True though i do like to add that i do no have supreme evidence for this and i agree in most cases this is the case, anyhow i do not believe this to be the ultimate case and i admit it is mostly speculation but i guess i can try this. if characters can be much faster then someone despite their being a decent power difference between them then i do not see any trouble for their being a possibility for a character being physically stronger then someone even if they have about the same amount of power. either how i am not gonna add a bit of real life n this and i hope this will not explode in my face but being able to pick up more does not mean one can punch harder then another.
I divide physical strength into two categories pick up and punching power. A good analogy are boxers and bodybuilders. Boxers are no where near able to pick up as much as bodybuilders but they punch a decent amount harder then bodybuilders. In this case it is possible that kibito is not able to channel a lot of ki into pick up strength but can channel it will in punching power. this is the best i got sadly i do wish hitiro was here to help cause it is him i got this theory from.
Edit: oh Freeza example is a thing i can possibly use. If i remember right people here theorize that people use ki to enhance their durability. Well frieza with no ki left has shown to survive a planet explosion which is something i have yet to see anyone else do with the same amount of ki. Yes despite this he is seemingly unable to use ki to enhance himself as well as goku. the majin buu thing does seem to support this somewhat as he is far beyond Freeza yet his durability was kinda inferior.
So my thinking is basically this if durability and speed are like this then why not physical strength. But i do admit that they do also rise along with power just seemingly not to the same extent in all cases. I hope this is understandable to you lol i am still kinda nervous.

[supercat]

You were saying that the near-death power up was enough to allow him to lift the Z-Sword. If he was as strong as Kibito prior to that, that isn't an "insignificant" or "negligible" boost.

i believe there was a misunderstanding i never said kibito was as strong as gohan just strong enough to give him a descent fight as long as he is not ssj. If this is going with the idea that gohan was not gonna use full power then i can take a guess that kibito would be maybe around 60% or even less then gohans power.

Speed and better fighting skills are advantages that can only be applicable in fights where both fighters are relatively close in power / ki. This has been demonstrated between Perfect Cell and Trunks with Cell having the upper hand in battle due to having superior speed.

Your theory on lifting strength and punching power is an interesting concept. However, I can't think of any specific references where strength was divided into these two categories. One small example of all aspects of strength being amplified along with ki increase is when South Kai raises the weights Goku had on his arms and legs. Initially, in base form, Goku is unable to do much. However, as soon as he powers up to SSJ he is able to demonstrate both increased punching power and lifting strength (effortlessly punching and kicking with the same weights he was struggling with in base form) that was clearly obtained through ki increase.

Though not an actual ability, Frieza's durability can even be viewed as a part of who he is, or a special gift, much like Buu's regeneration. Barring these special gifts and/or abilities, it seemed pretty apparent that strength and ki are interchangeable, or at the very least, closely tied together. Regardless of this comparison, even with special abilities, it was usually the stronger / more power fighter who came out victorious.

Kibito not being able to even budge the Z-Sword a bit hints that his strength is probably pretty far off from Base Gohan. The gap between the two fighters is probably significant enough where any special abilities and/or speed would not be able to make any kind of big impact. In addition, due to the lack of demonstration of anything even remotely akin to a special ability or gift, I can't think of any possible way for Kibito to give Base Gohan a difficult fight, let alone defeat him.

[hyperbeing1]

Speed and better fighting skills are advantages that can only be applicable in fights where both fighters are relatively close in power / ki. This has been demonstrated between Perfect Cell and Trunks with Cell having the upper hand in battle due to having superior speed.

Your theory on lifting strength and punching power is an interesting concept. However, I can't think of any specific references where strength was divided into these two categories. One small example of all aspects of strength being amplified along with ki increase is when South Kai raises the weights Goku had on his arms and legs. Initially, in base form, Goku is unable to do much. However, as soon as he powers up to SSJ he is able to demonstrate both increased punching power and lifting strength (effortlessly punching and kicking with the same weights he was struggling with in base form) that was clearly obtained through ki increase.

Though not an actual ability, Freeza's durability can even be viewed as a part of who he is, or a special gift, much like Buu's regeneration. Barring these special gifts and/or abilities, it seemed pretty apparent that strength and ki are interchangeable, or at the very least, closely tied together. Regardless of this comparison, even with special abilities, it was usually the stronger / more power fighter who came out victorious.

Kibito not being able to even budge the Z-Sword a bit hints that his strength is probably pretty far off from Base Gohan. The gap between the two fighters is probably significant enough where any special abilities and/or speed would not be able to make any kind of big impact. In addition, due to the lack of demonstration of anything even remotely akin to a special ability or gift, I can't think of any possible way for Kibito to give Base Gohan a difficult fight, let alone defeat him.

I cannot take credit for this. this is something i came across and believe in at least in terms of real life if you wish i can give you what i know on this in pm. anyway i recall the fight between ginyu and goku where ginyu despite being around 120,000 compared to goku's 90,000 which is a 30,000 level difference between power in flat around and 1/3 in percent admitted goku was faster then him. if you wish i can get the quote it is in the strength checker. he power between trunks and cell were hardly equal unless you wish to downplay piccolo and cells comment who state that trunks was much stronger .
Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P1.3, P2.1-3
Trunks: “What you’re about to see now…is my true power!!!”
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…”
Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P3.5.
Piccolo: “Absolutely incredible power! It’s even greater than Cell’s…! Un-unbelievable…!“
both of these confirm that trunks is a descent amount more powerful then cell but due to a combination of stamina drain and lowered speed his power meant next to nothing despite the huge gap between them.

I did admit that in most cases that as levels go up stats increase as well that includes strength, durability, speed, and so on this i am not denying this but it i do believe that it is possible to be weaker then someone or about the same level yet significantly physically weaker then them. Maybe its cause i am implying more realistic standard in db instead of simply more power means more win where there are usually much more than that. Goku was able to give Freeza a significant fight when he was holding back maybe despite being for the most part significantly weaker then Freeza.

Kibito has shown at least 3 special abilities healing, teleportation, and cloth change showing a much more magical nature in his abilities. The diaz did say that his power is high enough to give gohan a tough fight maybe suggesting his durability or maybe his unique ki manipulation. Maybe he could do something akin to south kai and make gohans clothes very heavy. of course as i try to repeat many times though i don't believe them necessarily on equal levels but kibito really close to a restrained gohan and that enough is significantly higher then king kai. And to answer the main question no he is not a kaioshin but rather a powerful kaio at least compared to king kai who was responsible for training king yemma.
p.s thanks for separating your posts it makes it much easier for me and thanks for being patient i am still kinda shy.

[supercat]

Speed and better fighting skills are advantages that can only be applicable in fights where both fighters are relatively close in power / ki. This has been demonstrated between Perfect Cell and Trunks with Cell having the upper hand in battle due to having superior speed.

Your theory on lifting strength and punching power is an interesting concept. However, I can't think of any specific references where strength was divided into these two categories. One small example of all aspects of strength being amplified along with ki increase is when South Kai raises the weights Goku had on his arms and legs. Initially, in base form, Goku is unable to do much. However, as soon as he powers up to SSJ he is able to demonstrate both increased punching power and lifting strength (effortlessly punching and kicking with the same weights he was struggling with in base form) that was clearly obtained through ki increase.

Though not an actual ability, Freeza's durability can even be viewed as a part of who he is, or a special gift, much like Buu's regeneration. Barring these special gifts and/or abilities, it seemed pretty apparent that strength and ki are interchangeable, or at the very least, closely tied together. Regardless of this comparison, even with special abilities, it was usually the stronger / more power fighter who came out victorious.

Kibito not being able to even budge the Z-Sword a bit hints that his strength is probably pretty far off from Base Gohan. The gap between the two fighters is probably significant enough where any special abilities and/or speed would not be able to make any kind of big impact. In addition, due to the lack of demonstration of anything even remotely akin to a special ability or gift, I can't think of any possible way for Kibito to give Base Gohan a difficult fight, let alone defeat him.

I cannot take credit for this. this is something i came across and believe in at least in terms of real life if you wish i can give you what i know on this in pm. anyway i recall the fight between ginyu and goku where ginyu despite being around 120,000 compared to goku's 90,000 which is a 30,000 level difference between power in flat around and 1/3 in percent admitted goku was faster then him. if you wish i can get the quote it is in the strength checker. he power between trunks and cell were hardly equal unless you wish to downplay piccolo and cells comment who state that trunks was much stronger .
Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P1.3, P2.1-3
Trunks: “What you’re about to see now…is my true power!!!”
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…”
Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P3.5.
Piccolo: “Absolutely incredible power! It’s even greater than Cell’s…! Un-unbelievable…!“
both of these confirm that trunks is a descent amount more powerful then cell but due to a combination of stamina drain and lowered speed his power meant next to nothing despite the huge gap between them.

I did admit that in most cases that as levels go up stats increase as well that includes strength, durability, speed, and so on this i am not denying this but it i do believe that it is possible to be weaker then someone or about the same level yet significantly physically weaker then them. Maybe its cause i am implying more realistic standard in db instead of simply more power means more win where there are usually much more than that. Goku was able to give Freeza a significant fight when he was holding back maybe despite being for the most part significantly weaker then Freeza.

Kibito has shown at least 3 special abilities healing, teleportation, and cloth change showing a much more magical nature in his abilities. The diaz did say that his power is high enough to give gohan a tough fight maybe suggesting his durability or maybe his unique ki manipulation. Maybe he could do something akin to south kai and make gohans clothes very heavy. of course as i try to repeat many times though i don't believe them necessarily on equal levels but kibito really close to a restrained gohan and that enough is significantly higher then king kai. And to answer the main question no he is not a kaioshin but rather a powerful kaio at least compared to king kai who was responsible for training king yemma.
p.s thanks for separating your posts it makes it much easier for me and thanks for being patient i am still kinda shy.

Yes, that Trunks vs Cell fight was what I was trying to point out earlier in terms of speed being applicable in certain cases. While the power gap between them didn't appear to be small, I don't think it was as substantial as people would think. Again, if it were, Cell's speed and attacks would have been nothing to Trunks and the damage taken would have been negligible. I think the gap between the two was small enough for Cell to be able to cause significant damage.

Yes, Kibito has shown that he can heal, teleport, and materialize clothing. However, I can't think of how any of those abilities can help him win a fight against an opponent who is most likely vastly superior in ki / strength. Your theory about weighing Gohan down with heavy clothing was actually kind of funny, but may not be impossible to pull off at the right time! In terms of durability, nothing has ever suggested that this is a gift that Kibito possesses. Again, we have very little to go by, and aside from the Z-Sword feat, there isn't a single piece of evidence that at least helps us compare him with other characters. Power scaling gives us even less information about his power, as it is not really applicable with the limited information we have on him. With that being said, I do agree with you that he is probably substantially stronger than King Kai.

[hyperbeing1]

Yes, that Trunks vs Cell fight was what I was trying to point out earlier in terms of speed being applicable in certain cases. While the power gap between them didn't appear to be small, I don't think it was as substantial as people would think. Again, if it were, Cell's speed and attacks would have been nothing to Trunks and the damage taken would have been negligible. I think the gap between the two was small enough for Cell to be able to cause significant damage.

Yes, Kibito has shown that he can heal, teleport, and materialize clothing. However, I can't think of how any of those abilities can help him win a fight against an opponent who is most likely vastly superior in ki / strength. Your theory about weighing Gohan down with heavy clothing was actually kind of funny, but may not be impossible to pull off at the right time! In terms of durability, nothing has ever suggested that this is a gift that Kibito possesses. Again, we have very little to go by, and aside from the Z-Sword feat, there isn't a single piece of evidence that at least helps us compare him with other characters. Power scaling gives us even less information about his power, as it is not really applicable with the limited information we have on him. With that being said, I do agree with you that he is probably substantially stronger than King Kai.

Well it is possible that for the trunks in cell think trunks focused entirely on his power and nothing else which is partially why cell had little trouble injuring him on the other hand nothing shown he was actually injured and was simply annoyed he cannot touch cell or at least i do not remember cell really hurting him.also cell's line
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…” seems to suggest the power is a descent huge amount. though i am willing to admit he was probably just lying and toying with trunks though i did theorize that he was still learning to use his power so he may have unlocked more of his power later though again he never really refuted it.

Well i know it was kinda desperate but it was just a quick guess i mean south kai can make goku struggle on movement i beleive kibito can do similar to gohan. The few reasons i do not like using the z sword thing as evidence of strength is that there are a few possibilities the most common one is that Kibito is significantly weaker then gohan in terms of physical strength. the other one is that the z sword may not be usable by kais and kaioshins or they are not able to hold the sword this stems from the fact that it is kinda of a ironic hope that was put on the sword that only a mortal can use this. another reason i dislike the use of this scene as it was a gag scene like bulma hurting roshi or goku when she is angry not that i am denying gohan was stronger then kibito. I also like to note either way the fact kaioshin could not lift the blade despite the fact he is at least stronger then frieza and therefore a decent amount stronger then both goku and gohan at there base ,yet he was unable to use the sword or remove it.
either way we are getting kinda of topic as we already kinda settled on the main topic that kibito is not a kaioshin. Maybe if you want we can continue this in pm i am much better in pm anyhow.

[supercat]

Yes, that Trunks vs Cell fight was what I was trying to point out earlier in terms of speed being applicable in certain cases. While the power gap between them didn't appear to be small, I don't think it was as substantial as people would think. Again, if it were, Cell's speed and attacks would have been nothing to Trunks and the damage taken would have been negligible. I think the gap between the two was small enough for Cell to be able to cause significant damage.

Yes, Kibito has shown that he can heal, teleport, and materialize clothing. However, I can't think of how any of those abilities can help him win a fight against an opponent who is most likely vastly superior in ki / strength. Your theory about weighing Gohan down with heavy clothing was actually kind of funny, but may not be impossible to pull off at the right time! In terms of durability, nothing has ever suggested that this is a gift that Kibito possesses. Again, we have very little to go by, and aside from the Z-Sword feat, there isn't a single piece of evidence that at least helps us compare him with other characters. Power scaling gives us even less information about his power, as it is not really applicable with the limited information we have on him. With that being said, I do agree with you that he is probably substantially stronger than King Kai.

Well it is possible that for the trunks in cell think trunks focused entirely on his power and nothing else which is partially why cell had little trouble injuring him on the other hand nothing shown he was actually injured and was simply annoyed he cannot touch cell or at least i do not remember cell really hurting him.also cell's line
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…” seems to suggest the power is a descent huge amount. though i am willing to admit he was probably just lying and toying with trunks though i did theorize that he was still learning to use his power so he may have unlocked more of his power later though again he never really refuted it.

Well i know it was kinda desperate but it was just a quick guess i mean south kai can make goku struggle on movement i beleive kibito can do similar to gohan. The few reasons i do not like using the z sword thing as evidence of strength is that there are a few possibilities the most common one is that Kibito is significantly weaker then gohan in terms of physical strength. the other one is that the z sword may not be usable by kais and kaioshins or they are not able to hold the sword this stems from the fact that it is kinda of a ironic hope that was put on the sword that only a mortal can use this. another reason i dislike the use of this scene as it was a gag scene like bulma hurting roshi or goku when she is angry not that i am denying gohan was stronger then kibito. I also like to note either way the fact kaioshin could not lift the blade despite the fact he is at least stronger then Freeza and therefore a decent amount stronger then both goku and gohan at there base ,yet he was unable to use the sword or remove it.
either way we are getting kinda of topic as we already kinda settled on the main topic that kibito is not a kaioshin. Maybe if you want we can continue this in pm i am much better in pm anyhow.

The 3rd Grade Super Saiyan came at major cost of speed, so that may be one of the few exceptional cases where the usual superiority in ki having major advantages may not be fully applicable. There should be no reason for Gohan to start off with any such disadvantages against Kibito while fighting him in his base form.

With that being said, even if Kibito isn't one shot material for Base Gohan, I still don't see him posing much of a threat. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Gohan could brush him aside as he would to a random grunt in Frieza's army, but he would still most likely have a more challenging battle with Final Form Frieza 25% than with Kibito.

Before the events of BoG, it seemed a lot of people believed that the Base Saiyans were far past Final Form Frieza 100%. However, if we follow what Beerus said, we can now assume that the Base Saiyans never quite made it that far. If we include non-canon movies and scenes, and factor in GT, then the original assumption of the Base Saiyans surpassing Frieza may be more viable. If we go with that theory, then there's a slight chance that someone like Kibito can actually rival Final Form Frieza 100%. However, for this discussion, I was trying to base everything off of canon references.

[DanielSSJ]

I've always assumed he was an extremely powerful Shinjin. As in, the same kind of being as Kaio-sama (King Kai). The regular Shinjin are said to live for about 75,000 years. Kaio-shin (Supreme Kai) has lived for at least 5 million years and still appears rather young.

[supercat]

I've always assumed he was an extremely powerful Shinjin. As in, the same kind of being as Kaio-sama (King Kai). The regular Shinjin are said to live for about 75,000 years. Kaio-shin (Supreme Kai) has lived for at least 5 million years and still appears rather young. In terms of power, it is said that Gohan would've had a lot of trouble fighting Kibito if he stayed in his base form, so I'd say he's somewhere between Freeza and the Androids, in terms of power. Kaioshin is around Super Vegeta's level of power.

How was it ever implied that Kibito could be above Frieza? At least for Kaioshin, it was directly stated that he can one-shot Frieza. Kibito couldn't even budge the Z-Sword, while Base Gohan was able to move around with it. I know there's a lot of debate on whether the Base Saiyans have surpassed Frieza or not, but if we take what Beerus said seriously, then we likely have the following: Frieza > Base Gohan > Kibito.

If we assume Base Gohan > Frieza, then I could see Kibito wielding a power that can be comparable to Frieza's.

Either way, I can see Gohan taking down Kibito with relative ease. Kibito may be able to put up small fight (as in possibly get in a few hits), but I don't see Gohan taking a bad beating in any shape or form. Additionally, the way I saw it, Kibito is worlds below Kaioshin.

[flashback0180]

Physical power doesn't grant you titles. This politics, the new kai position is chosen by a gathering.

[supercat]

Regardless of if Kibito is a Kaioshin, where he stands in status, or how he obtained that status doesn't change the fact that it has been strongly implied that he is weaker than Base Gohan and also most likely Final Form Frieza 100%.