Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[UpFromTheSkies]

I understand what they were trying to do with the scene. I'm just saying it was stupid and badly executed, wanting to transmit a point and enforce character development doesn't make it any less illogical.

When did it establish that?

When Shen was distracted, was hit by the Sokidan, and did almost no damage. Or when Vegeta & co attacked second form Freeza when he was distracted and, again, did no damage at all.

You may have thought they were distracted, but they obviously had their ki guards up.

It's all a matter of how you choose to interpret things; you will see problems if you want to see them.

Even in a weakened state, Vegeta was way above Yajirobe in terms of power, and had Yajirobe gone for his neck, I see no reason he couldn't have killed him.

You keep neglecting that the difference between a weakened Vegeta and Yajirobe is way, way, waaaaaaaay lower than the difference between SSGSS Goku and Sorbet.

Is that documented? How strong was his laser beam?

[buutenks]

As for me when youre off guard you tend to miss those things despite your huge advantage, freaking batman killed Reverse flash with a sword stab just because he was too focused on Barry. Superman got shot by a bullet kryptonite thats only moving at bullet speed right infront of his face.

I'm pretty sure flash doesnt have steel skin,so stabbing him is perfectly fine and superman gets super weak while near kryptonite and u can actually kill superman with a kryptonite knfie.

Ki in dbz affects everything,durability,speed,power and strength.So goku being pierced by the beam,means he lowered his ki to relaxing level,basically he was suppressed while in ssj god form.That means he mastered the form,to be able to do that.That is goku's flaw.This was pointed out by whis,when he touched goku and caused him great pain due to being to suppressed.

Is that documented? How strong was his laser beam?

According to freeza,it was a weak ki blast.

[SansrivaaL]

I'm pretty sure flash doesnt have steel skin,so stabbing him is perfectly fine and superman gets super weak while near kryptonite and u can actually kill superman with a kryptonite knfie.

Ki in dbz affects everything,durability,speed,power and strength.So goku being pierced by the beam,means he lowered his ki to relaxing level,basically he was suppressed while in ssj god form.That means he mastered the form,to be able to do that.That is goku's flaw.

In R.Flash's case I meant his reaction and speed, because he was too caught up on Barry that he let his guard down and didnt expect someone would stab him from the back hence him not being able to evade it. About superman's case I dont think he noticed the kryptonite since he was still going for it and wasnt feeling anything strange, basically no foreshadowing that he was getting weaker as he gets closer to it.

[Doctor.]

You may have thought they were distracted, but they obviously had their ki guards up.

And why would Goku lower his Ki guard when Freeza is right in front of him?

Better yet still, why would Goku not sense Sorbet's presence? Mr. Popo (and Goku in the 23rd BT) established that they can use Ki to sense even the most minuscule body movements, why didn't Goku sense Sorbet at all?

It's all a matter of how you choose to interpret things; you will see problems if you want to see them.

Don't use that excuse. You will not see problems if you don't want to see them, it works both ways. We're all Dragon Ball fans here, I'm sure most people aren't deliberately looking for problems to complain about. You'd have a point if I, in all my time here, have left an impression that I hate all new Dragon Ball material, but I enjoyed Battle of Gods, Jaco and the JSAT special very much. I'm not looking for things to complain about in this movie, they just come up because they are, to my eyes and plenty more, illogical.

Is that documented? How strong was his laser beam?

Do you really want to go this route? Are you implying that the difference between Sorbet and Goku is not that huge at all?

[The Monkey King]

I can't see Sorbet's ring attack being any more powerful than the attack the Freeza soldier used on Base Trunks:

Spoiler:

Honestly the whole scene kinda made me lose respect for Goku as a martial artist. This is the same guy who honed his body and senses to the point where he could fight blind by sensing vibrations in the air and slow his own heartbeat. He'd even lecture his opponents not to let their gaurd's down and leave themselves open for an attack.

Now in F Goku just seems like a stupid arrogant kung fu guy who now drops his PL to near 5 because he's so sure he's won and lets his guard down to such an extent that he's blind to his surroundings and can't dodge or react to attacks coming right at him. He can even sense the malice and intentions of his opponents, if he was being serious he would've known that Freeza was still planning something.

Perhaps all of this 'God' stuff has gotten to his head and he's lost his Zen-like qualities because of it.

[Doctor.]

It's probably stronger, since I doubt Sorbet is weaker than a random soldier and the gun tech should have improved in the years between Mecha Freeza's arrival and 'F', but it still shouldn't be enough to even hurt Goku, let alone almost kill him.

[pacz360]

Honestly, it's just Toriyama being inconsistent as usual. I mean this the same movie that had Piccolo struggling with a Zarbon tier opponent.

[SansrivaaL]

It's probably stronger, since I doubt Sorbet is weaker than a random soldier and the gun tech should have improved in the years between Mecha Freeza's arrival and 'F', but it still shouldn't be enough to even hurt Goku, let alone almost kill him.

Agree'd, Sorbet was the only one with a ring beam. What got me is why Sorbet the only one with a ring beam while everyone still uses the gun tech, I assumed it was the newer model or something.

[Mewzard]

I can't see Sorbet's ring attack being any more powerful than the attack the Freeza soldier used on Base Trunks

The soldier literally set his gun to kill a guy with a power level of five. If that was all it could do, then it would be worthless as a weapon. This is decades later of advance technology.

Besides, Toriyama was clearly trying to have a moment of planning there by setting up Goku's weakness to have it exploited, and eventually leading to the planet's destruction, to teach him a lesson, and have him correct it in the end. Even the best of warriors can have moments when they let their guard down, or briefly get a bit too arrogant. Getting smacked back down is when people correct such flaws.

When you think you're either at or very close to the most powerful in the world, that can get to your head. Goku's not immune to it, if you'll recall his first meeting with Mr. Popo.

Ki's a little different than a punch from a normal guy or a bullet. Saiyan physiology can determine how effective such things are. Ki's not something you stop with raw strength or hard skin, it's something you stop with Ki. So, if your ki levels drop when your guard's down, it could cost you (if you think of Ki like a Ki-proof vest in your body). Especially depending on how the attack works. Something that cuts you to pieces or pierces internal organs could end a fight in one shot.

[VegettoEX]

Just deleted a sarcastic post filled with scanlations.

This is not OK. Do not be this person.

[vegitot]

So Sorbet's ring couldn't break Shu's sword off,but could kill Goku.
Shu could kill Goku,too.
What a garbage

I did not heed administrative requests. I followed up the above text with an incredibly dismissive, sarcastic post filled with scanlations. This was not OK for me to do, and I recognize that this behavior is unacceptable. I understand that additional posts in this style will result in strikes against my account.

[buutenks]

Well, I'd say just chalk it up to poor writing and Toriyama being his inconsistent self again. ^^

[sintzu]

Well, I'd say just chalk it up to poor writing and Toriyama being his inconsistent self again. ^^

In the Saiyan arc Yajirobe could've killed Vegeta with his sword due to him lowering his guard so it's not the 1st time something like this happened but for some reason like other things brought up against these movies it's OK when the old stories do them but for some reason it's not for these new stories.

[Doctor.]

We've gone over this.

The difference between a WEAKENED, almost dying, Vegeta and Yajirobe is much, much smaller than the difference between a still relatively OK SSGSS Goku and Sorbet. There is no comparison to be made, we are not searching for problems.

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

We've gone over this.

The difference between a WEAKENED, almost dying, Vegeta and Yajirobe is much, much smaller than the difference between a still relatively OK SSGSS Goku and Sorbet. There is no comparison to be made, we are actively not searching for problems.

Sorbet's ring =/ Sorbet. This was Freeza's backup plan. You don't think the guy planned for a beam that was strong enough to pierce Goku? Plus, you don't know if the beam can or can't be charged. You just don't know, you're assuming. Again, Freeza planned this. He's fought Goku. I'm sure his backup plan would involve something that could /actually do some damage/.

[Doctor.]

We've gone over this.

The difference between a WEAKENED, almost dying, Vegeta and Yajirobe is much, much smaller than the difference between a still relatively OK SSGSS Goku and Sorbet. There is no comparison to be made, we are actively not searching for problems.

Sorbet's ring =/ Sorbet. This was Freeza's backup plan. You don't think the guy planned for a beam that was strong enough to pierce Goku? Plus, you don't know if the beam can or can't be charged. You just don't know, you're assuming. Again, Freeza planned this. He's fought Goku. I'm sure his backup plan would involve something that could /actually do some damage/.

And I've already thought about this hypothesis. But that's what it is: a hypothesis, it's not backed up by any official statement, inside or outside of the movie. If they wanted to tell us that Sorbet's ring was super special, or that Sorbet's ring could be charged, then their only obligation is to, you know, actually tell us. We're not supposed to make our own explanations, this is not how story-telling works, this is not some super deep series where that kind of story-telling could work. It's a simple, fun, battle Shounen that doesn't require a lot of thought to enjoy, and that's ok, but for fans to purposely try to cover up its flaws when the official material doesn't even bother to, is not.

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

We've gone over this.

The difference between a WEAKENED, almost dying, Vegeta and Yajirobe is much, much smaller than the difference between a still relatively OK SSGSS Goku and Sorbet. There is no comparison to be made, we are actively not searching for problems.

Sorbet's ring =/ Sorbet. This was Freeza's backup plan. You don't think the guy planned for a beam that was strong enough to pierce Goku? Plus, you don't know if the beam can or can't be charged. You just don't know, you're assuming. Again, Freeza planned this. He's fought Goku. I'm sure his backup plan would involve something that could /actually do some damage/.

And I've already thought about this hypothesis. But that's what it is: a hypothesis, it's not backed up by any official statement, inside or outside of the movie. If they wanted to tell us that Sorbet's ring was super special, or that Sorbet's ring could be charged, then their only obligation is to, you know, actually tell us. We're not supposed to make our own explanations, this is not how story-telling works, this is not some super deep series where that kind of story-telling could work. It's a simple, fun, battle Shounen that doesn't require a lot of thought to enjoy, and that's ok, but for fans to purposely try to cover up its flaws when the official material doesn't even bother to, is not.

But you can't call it an inconsistency. Just because they don't explain /exactly/ how strong it is doesn't make it not make any sense. What we DO know: It was strong enough to pierce SSGSS Goku. /And/ this was apart of Golden Freeza's backup plan.

[Doctor.]

Sure, just call it bad writing then. It's strong enough to pierce SSGSS Goku, but it's never explained why, or how some random soldier could get such a powerful weapon; and it was said that Freeza had a backup plan but it's never concretely stated what it is.

[buutenks]

Freeza specifically says in the movie,that goku's powerful body got hurt by a weak blast,aka sorbet's ring.Freeza says its a weak blast.

Well, I'd say just chalk it up to poor writing and Toriyama being his inconsistent self again. ^^

In the Saiyan arc Yajirobe could've killed Vegeta with his sword due to him lowering his guard so it's not the 1st time something like this happened but for some reason like other things brought up against these movies it's OK when the old stories do them but for some reason it's not for these new stories.

It is just simply a surprise that while transformed goku can be hurt so easily,just cause he wasnt paying attention.That is all.

Ofc it was shown by whis that goku tends to suppress his ki leaving him vulnerable to weak attacks.So thats the point of sorbet's ring.

[SansrivaaL]

There is the possibility of Freeza simply trashtalking Goku to mock him by saying its a weak blast, since basically people were debunking Cell's kamehame ha that can destroy the solar system since he has Freeza's DNA that makes him a boastful bastard but Freeza is also known to mock saiyans here and there (just throwing out ideas dont quote me on this since I'm not sure myself )