Goku Has "Wall Level Durability at Best" Debunked

[JSnively03]

Dear people of Kanzenshuu, today I am going to debunk a fan made theory.

"Goku got shot through the chest with a laser."

Pretty stupid. Now, Kanzenshuu, take a look at this:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NzsW ... -no/99.jpg

Here in the movie, Freeza says:

"Your weakness is your naivety. Because you are too strong, you have a bad habit of letting your guard down."

See? The main reason he was shot through the chest. That's not all though.

In this scan, Vegeta proves that by lowering your Ki, your defense drops down:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tyZN ... G_2073.JPG

Ki raises your defense, speed, etc..

Goku does not have wall level durability, he has much stronger.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Um, okay... was anyone seriously arguing that Goku wasn't tough enough to ignore that weapon under normal circumstances?

[Hitiro]

Um, okay... was anyone seriously arguing that Goku wasn't tough enough to ignore that weapon under normal circumstances?

Yes, there was someone in the official thread. Saying it is an inconsistency in the movie. When it was fully explained beforehand, when they were training with Whis, and during the time he actually got shot.

[singsing]

It makes plenty of sense, these guys can walk around with a PL of 5 if they want, which means they're using no extra ki to boost their defenses, which means it's just their natural defenses, which I guess is now shown to be around moon++/planetary, so all Sorbet's ring needs to be is stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta for there to be no inconsistency.

[flashback0180]

Of course it's a inconsistency, the ring was a plot device to begin with. It's only purpose was to be used as a backup plan if freeza lost.

[Hitiro]

It makes plenty of sense, these guys can walk around with a PL of 5 if they want, which means they're using no extra ki to boost their defenses, which means it's just their natural defenses, which I guess is now shown to be around moon++/planetary, so all Sorbet's ring needs to be is stronger than Saiyan Saga Vegeta for there to be no inconsistency.

Wouldn't their durability be way above planetary by now? Freeza was already able to survive planetary explosions during the Freeza arc. He literally survived it with a portion of Ki from Goku and being heavily injured as well. So if Freeza could survive in that condition and with only a portion of Goku's Ki then all Saiyan's from Goku's Namek level upwards would be able to survive planetary damage.

The only reason Vegeta died in the movie was because Saiyan's can't survive in a vacuum as there is no oxygen to breath in space. Vegeta would literally have less than a minute of air. Plus the planets explosion probably threw him away from Goku and the others.

[SansrivaaL]

Didnt Freeza already say both him and Goku can survive after planet namek's explosion and that Goku will only die because saiyans cant survive in deep space?

[supercat]

I've always had the impression that Goku likes to tap into bursts of reserved power rather than constantly stay in a powered up state. Of course, this is excluding his fights as SSJ3 and possibly a few others. He seems to have the innate ability to fluctuate his ki / battle power to the extent that he wishes, and as deemed appropriate.

With that being said, I also think if all of his focus is poured onto only the opponent(s) that he is fighting, he may be vulnerable to attacks that he may not be able to sense. I could see him promptly raising his energy to evade a ki based attack, but if the attack being fired at him has no ki that can be sensed, I could see how it could bring him down.

As for Vegeta dying, I definitely feel he went down because he couldn't breathe in space.

[Bullza]

Didnt Freeza already say both him and Goku can survive after planet namek's explosion and that Goku will only die because saiyans cant survive in deep space?

Yeah, the way Frieza said it made it sound like a planet exploding in their face wasn't necessarily going to be strong enough to kill Goku.

And we know that seeing as how Frieza didn't die even after being chopped in two.

[Cetra]

Even if it is an inconsistency, it is nothing new. In the Cell Saga the Z Warriors cannot even open a steel door even though the should be able to do that. Dragon Ball tells the story it wants.

[Akira]

23rd Budokai, Goku witnesses Piccolo powering up and exploding outward, blowing up Papaya island and the tournament grounds with it. He raised his ki proportionately to be able to survive the blast. Yet once Piccolo had expended all of his own ki on that attack, Goku easily beat him down with melee attack combos. Goku, thinking he'd won, relaxed and looked to his friends and the announcer for a count down. It was then that a completely drained Piccolo sat up and with a meager ki blast from his mouth, blew a gaping hole through Goku's shoulder.

I don't see how the scene in the new movie is any different than that. I also agree that Goku's style of Ki management is using his maximum in quick bursts, due to his training methods and what the Kaioken technique conditioned his body for early on. Aside from the fact that he's the protagonist and hero (out of universe explanation), I believe the quick bursts explanation is a suitable "in-universe" explanation for why he can always last so long in a fight without burning himself out so quickly. (The exception being his Super Saiyan 3 fights where he has to be at max just to maintain the transformation, as previously mentioned in this thread.) Goku relaxed too far and got nailed by a weak attack.

Recall another time he relaxed and got nailed in the head by a stone thrown by his best friend. Yet, we saw previously the likes of Ginyu and others throwing huge boulders at him that simply crumble to rubble when his guard is up and ki shoots up. No inconsistency, in fact I'd say just the opposite. It like the fact that the notion of him having weaknesses besides his tail early on, and naivety always, makes him a more believable character. The fact that this weakness is finally noticed and exploited, when it is something that has been built on all along, yet rarely picked up on, is just another thing for Goku to improve on.

[Hellspawn28]

Every powerful fictional characters get hurt by smaller things. Nothing new here people.

[Hitiro]

Even if it is an inconsistency, it is nothing new. In the Cell Saga the Z Warriors cannot even open a steel door even though the should be able to do that. Dragon Ball tells the story it wants.

I don't think the door is an inconsistency. We are never told what metal it is made of. It could be the same or similar material that the Androids are made out of. #19 demonstrated to be highly durable even though he was clearly much much weaker than SSJ Goku. If #19 had been an actual Human or Saiyan of the same level I would think SSJ Goku would have taken him apart.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Even if it is an inconsistency, it is nothing new. In the Cell Saga the Z Warriors cannot even open a steel door even though the should be able to do that. Dragon Ball tells the story it wants.

I don't think the door is an inconsistency. We are never told what metal it is made of. It could be the same or similar material that the Androids are made out of. #19 demonstrated to be highly durable even though he was clearly much much weaker than SSJ Goku. If #19 had been an actual Human or Saiyan of the same level I would think SSJ Goku would have taken him apart.

Even if the door was completely indestructible, they were pushing against it, so they should have knocked the top of the mountain off, door and all...

[Cetra]

Even if it is an inconsistency, it is nothing new. In the Cell Saga the Z Warriors cannot even open a steel door even though the should be able to do that. Dragon Ball tells the story it wants.

I don't think the door is an inconsistency. We are never told what metal it is made of. It could be the same or similar material that the Androids are made out of. #19 demonstrated to be highly durable even though he was clearly much much weaker than SSJ Goku. If #19 had been an actual Human or Saiyan of the same level I would think SSJ Goku would have taken him apart.

Even if the door was completely indestructible, they were pushing against it, so they should have knocked the top of the mountain off, door and all...

The mountain didn't let its guard down. You misunderstood.

[saunasolmu]

The reason it penetrated Goku's body was stated in the movie. Whis also stated that the body is always fragile if you don't have ki to protect it.

Goku's durability is based on his ki and if he lowers his ki, he lowers his durability.

[Super Vegetto]

The reason it penetrated Goku's body was stated in the movie. Whis also stated that the body is always fragile if you don't have ki to protect it.

Goku's durability is based on his ki and if he lowers his ki, he lowers his durability.

Which means that Goku lowered his power to his limit and that doesn't make sense,,,,maybe SSJGSSJ can work like that or it's Sorbet's powerful attack,,,still not sure if it was ring or energy blast coming from him with ability like Kienzan.

[Hitiro]

Even if the door was completely indestructible, they were pushing against it, so they should have knocked the top of the mountain off, door and all...

The mountain didn't let its guard down. You misunderstood.

Why would them pushing against the door knock the mountain top off? The mountain probably weighs in excess of a 1,000 tons(Honestly this is probably being too kind). Even if we assume Goku was training on a 10x gravity planet for the tournament in the Boo arc. He could only lift 400 tons. None of the Earthlings were as strong as he was at that point. It would be ludicrous to think that they had the strength to knock the top of the mountain off.

[singsing]

Even if the door was completely indestructible, they were pushing against it, so they should have knocked the top of the mountain off, door and all...

The mountain didn't let its guard down. You misunderstood.

Why would them pushing against the door knock the mountain top off? The mountain probably weighs in excess of a 1,000 tons(Honestly this is probably being too kind). Even if we assume Goku was training on a 10x gravity planet for the tournament in the Boo arc. He could only lift 400 tons. None of the Earthlings were as strong as he was at that point. It would be ludicrous to think that they had the strength to knock the top of the mountain off.

It's also ludicrous to think that 40 ton "feat" is anything but an outlier imho.

[Hitiro]

It's also ludicrous to think that 40 ton "feat" is anything but an outlier imho.

Even if we assume that it is an outlier just a simple google search shows that a 10,000ft tall mountain would weigh around 8.1718E+17 tons. If we assume a linear strength progression then no character below 100% Freeza in terms of power could ever hope to move a mountain of that magnitude.