If you had to choose one major character to die in Super...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:08 am

TJVY wrote:an opportunity that Gohan probably missed out on for not being as strong as Vegeta who trains regularly as opposed to someone that has settled for a life of mediocrity.

Gohan was far stronger than Vegeta until Vegeta did the ~holding hands~ powerup.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:28 am

Gohan was stronger than Vegeta until Bulma was slapped.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:51 am

Going even further back, Vegeta was stronger than Gohan before the latter sat on his ass for 24 hours.

Gyt Kaliba · Post by **Gyt Kaliba** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:41 am

I highly doubt anyone of the main cast is going to die a 'permanent' death, even if they do end up disregarding Toriyama's original ending of the manga eventually (which I really hope doesn't happen). They've all managed to be brought back from unthinkable odds before, so I just don't see it happening now.

If I did have to pick someone though...maybe Piccolo, if it was done in a somewhat emotional way like it was in GT. As one of the first truly major antagonists to turn good, and have gone from being one of the main fighters to now just being one of the background cast, they could possibly play up his changes in a meaningful way to the story, and make his departure actually mean something. Heck, if they wanted to, it could be a way to make Gohan "relevant" again...though I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...

Doctor. · Post by **Doctor.** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:54 am

Goku.

And permanently as in body, soul and all. It'd be incredibly dramatic and tragic.

ChahikoDBZ · Post by **ChahikoDBZ** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:04 pm

I don't think there's any major character I'd want to see die in DB Super but if one were to die off I think it would make the most sense to be Goku due to how dramatically that would alter things. Maybe Gohan would actually start back to training this time.

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:06 pm

ChahikoDBZ wrote:I don't think there's any major character I'd want to see die in DB Super but if one were to die off I think it would make the most sense to be Goku due to how dramatically that would alter things. Maybe Gohan would actually start back to training this time.

Nah. If this takes place after EoZ, Uub will take that role, not Gohan. =(

ssjjanemba · Post by **ssjjanemba** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:07 pm

Never really liked beerus, wouldn't mind seeing him go.

Basaku · Post by **Basaku** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:07 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote: Nah. If this takes place after EoZ, Uub will take that role, not Gohan. =(

With Toriyama/Toei's current "omg Goku & Vegeta exclusive salivating" mindset? Not hapening, it may end up being worse Uub treatement than even GT.

I'm getting more and more concerned

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:05 pm

Gyt Kaliba wrote:though I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...

"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do" - faff Gohan

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:28 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:though I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...
"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do" - faff Gohan

To be fair, there's no confirmation Vegeta got Pan's energy. It's possible Tarble might have stopped by.

Fishman · Post by **Fishman** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:19 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:though I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...
"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do" - faff Gohan
To be fair, there's no confirmation Vegeta got Pan's energy. It's possible Tarble might have stopped by.

i'm not sure you're doing the math here, because there's only so many Saiyans to draw from.

Goku
Goten
Gohan
Pan
Vegeta
Tarble
Trunks

if you're suggesting that Tarble stopped by instead of Vegeta using Pan as his sixth, you do complete the ritual but... that would mean Gohan himself was literally present as one of those six and did not take on the ceremony himself.

kill someone? Whis or Goku, though the damage is already done as far as the latter goes. it's not that i dislike whis, it's more that there's literally nothing that can create a sense of urgency or drama anymore if they're good friends with someone who can turn back time on a whim. literally a bigger deus ex machina than dragon balls.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:41 am

Rocketman wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:though I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...
"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do" - faff Gohan

"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three four alien invasions in the past few years."
-faff Gohan

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:03 am

Rocketman wrote:"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do" - faff Gohan

RandomGuy96 wrote:"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three alien invasions in the past few years." -faff Gohan

That got a pretty good laugh out of me.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:17 am

Gyt Kaliba wrote:I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...

You don't get it man, if Gohan doesn't maintain his title of "strongest unfused character" for the sake of having the title of "strongest unfused character", then he apparently has every redeemable thing about him gone by default.

SSJ Human · Post by **SSJ Human** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:55 am

I can't believe you guys are up in here saying you want Gohan to be killed off. We see him grow up in Z, so he can die in Super? I honestly don't think that would do anything to redeem his character. Toriyama to me doesn't seem interested in doing that for the fact that the character was a focal point of the previous canon installment and isn't the same as his father, Vegeta, Piccolo and Krillin who all die twice in one show. His death is forgettable where it not unneeded and one of the lowest points of the series in my view.

The person I feel would probably be the best candidate for redemption through death would be...maybe Whis? That way they wouldn't be able to instant fix everything like they did at the end of ROF.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:19 am

Zephyr wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote:I really have to shake my head at Gohan's choice to have a family being decried as "ruined" or "wasted"...
You don't get it man, if Gohan doesn't maintain his title of "strongest unfused character" for the sake of having the title of "strongest unfused character", then he apparently has every redeemable thing about him gone by default.

Keep fighting the good fight, Zephyr.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:38 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Keep fighting the good fight, Zephyr.

You know, you could always try to actually explain/clarify your point instead of crying straw man. In the absence of an actual argument clarifying or defending the notion that Gyt was confused/disagreeing with, I did my best to clarify it for him. I tried to go off of prior posts regarding Gohan's treatment, but it seems that this isn't a proper representation, based on your reaction. Perhaps this has something to do with them all involving "witty", thinly veiled complaints about recent material? Seems like that's not very good for getting any actual points across or stimulating discussion.

If you would be so kind to enlighten him so I don't have to misrepresent these "arguments".

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:10 am

Zephyr wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Keep fighting the good fight, Zephyr.
You know, you could always try to actually explain/clarify your point instead of crying straw man. In the absence of an actual argument clarifying or defending the notion that Gyt was confused/disagreeing with, I did my best to clarify it for him. I tried to go off of prior posts regarding Gohan's treatment, but it seems that this isn't a proper representation, based on your reaction. Perhaps this has something to do with them all involving "witty", thinly veiled complaints about recent material? Seems like that's not very good for getting any actual points across or stimulating discussion.

If you would be so kind to enlighten him so I don't have to misrepresent these "arguments".

It's pretty weird that you'd default to "they only care about power levels/person x being the strongest or else they suck", when the reasons why this doesn't even make sense from an in-universe or story perspective have been outlined to you repeatedly. Including in the posts just above yours, which point out how stupid, illogical, and irresponsible it is for Gohan to neglect his training with all these retcons being put in place. He could sit down for a few minutes to gain the same power-up as Goku and Vegeta at literally no risk or cost, and at the very least set aside some time to train in his free time if his family really matters to him. Apparently it doesn't, and apparently he can't even spare those few minutes. Apparently, he's somehow even managed to lose his Ultimate power-up, even though there's absolutely zero reason that would even be possible, and it contradicts the actual manga.

"I'll use my daughter as a battery for Vegeta, but protect my family myself? No way, that's for daddy to do" - faff Gohan

"Sit down for five minutes to become the strongest person ever? Nah, I don't have time for that. Besides. There's only been, like, three four alien invasions in the past few years."
-faff Gohan

Like, this is basic reading comprehension. What in there says "Gohan sucks just because he's not the strongest"?

Not to mention that this idea that him being weak is made up for by being a family man or whatever is stupid for another reason: we never see him that capacity. He's still only a fighter. Just a really bad one who shows up to got kicked in the balls the minute he tries to help because HAHA FUCK YOU IT'S GOKU/VEGETA TIME. That's not even getting into how his rage boosts and Ultimate power-up have been given to Vegeta...

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:48 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:the reasons why this doesn't even make sense from an in-universe or story perspective have been outlined to you repeatedly. Including in the posts just above yours, which point out how stupid, illogical, and irresponsible it is for Gohan to neglect his training with all these retcons being put in place.

The ones that likely don't want to even entertain the notion that since he's not the only line of defense for the Earth, then it's arguably perfectly fine for him to not see the point in bothering? Nah, the perfect storm of the negative repercussions of Gohan not being the most OP character happens (much of which was outside of his control), and it's all Gohan's fault. You know how it would play out if he kept Ultimate, kept up with his training, and got Super Saiyan God? Goku, Vegeta, and Freeza would all still probably be stronger than him because that's the story that they want to tell. They would provide justification for it, that wouldn't please a bunch of people because it would mean dethroning Gohan, he'd still get beaten, and Goku and Vegeta would still save the day. It would change virtually nothing, other than Gohan arbitrarily being more prepared for things he had no reason to anticipate.

RandomGuy96 wrote:What in there says "Gohan sucks just because he's not the strongest"?

That's honestly what it sounds like when there is apparently no possible justification for him not being, nor caring about being, the strongest, and the resulting mountain of salt is this enormous.

RandomGuy96 wrote:Apparently, he's somehow even managed to lose his Ultimate power-up, even though there's absolutely zero reason that would even be possible, and it contradicts the actual manga.

Ah yes, the good old power up that we actually explicitly know next to nothing about, and have the way his eyes are drawn for an incredibly short period of time as the sole support for him losing it "contradicting" anything.

RandomGuy96 wrote:He could sit down for a few minutes to gain the same power-up as Goku and Vegeta at literally no risk or cost, and at the very least set aside some time to train in his free time if his family really matters to him. Apparently it doesn't, and apparently he can't even spare those few minutes.

He could certainly do that, but there's no dire need for it. If you want to count the new incident with Freeza as an alarming need for it, then hey, maybe he does do it after? It's not like we've seen anything after FnF, so there's no justification in using post-film speculation as support for whining about his treatment in the film.

RandomGuy96 wrote:Not to mention that this idea that him being weak is made up for by being a family man or whatever is stupid for another reason: we never see him that capacity. He's still only a fighter. Just a really bad one who shows up to got kicked in the balls the minute he tries to help

I'll grant you that if we saw more of him doing non-fighting stuff that would be cool. Even if we don't though, it's a perfectly fine explanation for him not being on top, and it's consistent with him dropping the ball when it comes to fighting. I guess that's not terribly consistent with the interpretation that he's supposed to be permanently a cold hard badass at fighting, or whatever, but then, that seems to be a big crux of the problem with what happened to Gohan in the Buu arc: we never see an in-manga follow-up to show what developments were and were not retained, only speculation. The way his eyes are drawn is a small detail compared to the volume of inductions drawn from it.

Kanzenshuu

If you had to choose one major character to die in Super...

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