Official DBZ 2015 Movie Power Discussion: "Resurrection F"

[dbgtFO]

So what are we going to make of Freeza's line "I learned from last time that I shouldn't have held back, I will start in my final form right away!"(can someone provide the proper quote?).
He only fought Goku in his final form afterall(and really missed opportunity here for Goku to be surprised how Freeza looks)...
Is this an impliation that he wasn't at full power against Trunks or what?

[supercat]

So what are we going to make of Freeza's line "I learned from last time that I shouldn't have held back, I will start in my final form right away!"(can someone provide the proper quote?).
He only fought Goku in his final form afterall(and really missed opportunity here for Goku to be surprised how Freeza looks)...
Is this an impliation that he wasn't at full power against Trunks or what?

I think he was referring to how he didn't initially power up to 50-100% during his fight with Goku, which in turn gave him the opportunity to become an SSJ.

Either that, or he was possibly referring to how he spent time fighting the Z-fighters in his first three forms.

[dbgtFO]

So what are we going to make of Freeza's line "I learned from last time that I shouldn't have held back, I will start in my final form right away!"(can someone provide the proper quote?).
He only fought Goku in his final form afterall(and really missed opportunity here for Goku to be surprised how Freeza looks)...
Is this an impliation that he wasn't at full power against Trunks or what?

I think he was referring to how he didn't initially power up to 50-100% during his fight with Goku, which in turn gave him the opportunity to become an SSJ.

Either that, or he was possibly referring to how he spent time fighting the Z-fighters in his first three forms.

Well against Goku, he wasn't fighting in lower forms, so would it really refer to that fight?
I don't know why he would be referring to his fight with the others either. Goku didn't get an advantage due to that either.

Incidentally do you know the specific quote? I want to make sure I didn't get it wrong.

[supercat]

So what are we going to make of Freeza's line "I learned from last time that I shouldn't have held back, I will start in my final form right away!"(can someone provide the proper quote?).
He only fought Goku in his final form afterall(and really missed opportunity here for Goku to be surprised how Freeza looks)...
Is this an impliation that he wasn't at full power against Trunks or what?

I think he was referring to how he didn't initially power up to 50-100% during his fight with Goku, which in turn gave him the opportunity to become an SSJ.

Either that, or he was possibly referring to how he spent time fighting the Z-fighters in his first three forms.

Well against Goku, he wasn't fighting in lower forms, so would it really refer to that fight?
I don't know why he would be referring to his fight with the others either. Goku didn't get an advantage due to that either.

Incidentally do you know the specific quote? I want to make sure I didn't get it wrong.

I don't know the specific quote, but going off of the basic context, I think he may have been referring to the fact that by wasting time fighting the Z-Fighters in his lower forms, he let small windows of opportunity surface, when all he had to do was crush them all in his Final Form, trash the planet, and be done with it.

[dbgtFO]

I don't know the specific quote, but going off of the basic context, I think he may have been referring to the fact that by wasting time fighting the Z-Fighters in his lower forms, he let small windows of opportunity surface, when all he had to do was crush them all in his Final Form, trash the planet, and be done with it.

You know, that does sound very plausible.
I find the wording a bit weird though, but I guess it's one of those instances, where it sounds better in your head or the meaning behind that quote is obviously known by the author and so it makes perfect sense to him, but maybe not to others

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Here it is from Herms' translation of the script:

• Goku: “I guess you really have reached a whole new level. But I’ve gotten stronger too. Didn’t you think of that?”
  Vegeta looks confident as well. He stands still, arms folded.
  Freeza: “Quite frankly, you caught me off guard last time. So this time I’ll use my final form right from the start.”
  Freeza is shrouded in a stupendous aura as he transforms into his final form. Goku and Vegeta’s previously confident expressions become tense.

[dbgtFO]

Here it is from Herms' translation of the script:

• Goku: “I guess you really have reached a whole new level. But I’ve gotten stronger too. Didn’t you think of that?”
  Vegeta looks confident as well. He stands still, arms folded.
  Freeza: “Quite frankly, you caught me off guard last time. So this time I’ll use my final form right from the start.”
  Freeza is shrouded in a stupendous aura as he transforms into his final form. Goku and Vegeta’s previously confident expressions become tense.

Many thanks!
Turns out it's not so different from how I remembered it after all.
Still in doubt about it.

Also this is a good a time as ever to ask, from where yo are getting those excerpts from?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I saved it during the 10 minutes or whatever it existed on the forum, before the decision was made that posting the whole thing might be a bad idea...

[dbgtFO]

I saved it during the 10 minutes or whatever it existed on the forum, before the decision was made that posting the whole thing might be a bad idea...

Hmm.. I guess we'll know, if the book gets translated come the English release of the movie.

[Hugo Boss]

Still in doubt about it.

Yeah, it's not very clear what Freeza means in this context, but maybe he is referring to the fact that he did held back before Super Saiyan was real. That cost his life and a different attitude could lead to a different outcome. I guess he was expecting his final form to be a step far beyond anything Goku could use and wasn't interested in playing around with lesser forms, which in Freeza's perspective could give Goku a chance to catch him off guard.

[supercat]

So do we have any actual updates on Shisami's power? If he trained or not? I would love to get some insight on this.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

[supercat]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I know, right? It's really hard to tell where Frieza stands in this form, since it was apparently Base Gohan that he took down. If it were SSJ2 or even SSJ, then for sure I could see him being at or above SSJ3 / Kid Buu tier, but the fact that Gohan was defeated in Base could put Frieza almost anywhere. With that being said, I personally don't find it too far-fetched to put First Form Frieza around that level (SSJ3 / Kid Buu), going by Piccolo's remark. I just don't find it likely that Piccolo would have made a remark of that context if First Form Frieza was merely Super Perfect Cell level. Even if Super Perfect Cell may be stronger than any of the Z-Fighters there, after sensing crazy beings like Super Buu, it just seems more reasonable for Piccolo to be referring to a power at least a decent amount beyond Super Perfect Cell.

In addition, I think at the very least Gohan was somewhere around FPSSJ (Cell Games) on the low end and Post Z-Sword on the higher end, meaning Frieza must have been at the very least above that range for Piccolo to make that kind of remark. Despite Gohan seemingly losing his Elder Kai power up, I don't think his battle power in Base / SSJ really decreased that much.

If we assume Piccolo is Cell Jr. tier, and Shisami is either at or a little above this, Gohan going SSJ to take Shisami down should easily justify his SSJ form at the very least being at the level of his FPSSJ (Cell Games), if not a good amount higher.

All the more reason for us to get some kind of confirmation on whether Shisami trained or not.

[Hugo Boss]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I suppose Freeza believes his lesser forms are not quite up to the task of defeating a Saiyan that defeated Majin Boo and, giving how extraordinary his power was said to be, I think his first form is a good deal stronger than Gohan or Cell.

[supercat]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I suppose Freeza believes his lesser forms are not quite up to the task of defeating a Saiyan that defeated Majin Boo and, giving how extraordinary his power was said to be, I think his first form is a good deal stronger than Gohan or Cell.

Whether his first form was weaker than Buu, or around that tier, since he likely knows Goku is far above a level of that caliber at this point he would transform regardless. With that in mind, and considering how Frieza was likely far above the power Gohan possessed during the events of FnF (which I still believe is around Post Z-Sword), I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his first form was rocking a power comparable to SSJ3 / Kid Buu.

[Hugo Boss]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I suppose Freeza believes his lesser forms are not quite up to the task of defeating a Saiyan that defeated Majin Boo and, giving how extraordinary his power was said to be, I think his first form is a good deal stronger than Gohan or Cell.

Whether his first form was weaker than Buu, or around that tier, since he likely knows Goku is far above a level of that caliber at this point he would transform regardless. With that in mind, and considering how Freeza was likely far above the power Gohan possessed during the events of FnF (which I still believe is around Post Z-Sword), I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if his first form was rocking a power comparable to SSJ3 / Kid Buu.

Well, Freeza knew Goku was stronger than on Namek but he wasn't exactly picturing anything surpassing SS3, if is that what you mean. To say that his first form is comparable to Majin Boo, it would probably require his second and third forms to be stronger than SS3, which in my opinion would kill the point of using his final form right away.

[supercat]

Well, Freeza knew Goku was stronger than on Namek but he wasn't exactly picturing anything surpassing SS3, if is that what you mean. To say that his first form is comparable to Majin Boo, it would probably require his second and third forms to be stronger than SS3, which in my opinion would kill the point of using his final form right away.

Well I guess it sort of comes down to whether Frieza actually knew how powerful Buu was or not. However, I imagine Frieza had some idea of where Buu and Beerus stood in power, considering how even as Golden Frieza, he still seemingly had concerns regarding Beerus. Additionally, the form of Buu used as a reference was most likely Kid Buu or Fat Buu.

I can see Frieza's First Form rivaling Kid Buu / SSJ3, but I'm also open to seeing him slightly below this (perhaps around Fat Buu). In regards to his second and third forms, I guess it depends on whether he kept the same multipliers from Namek or not. As for his Final Form, without looking too deeply into the multipliers or trying to calculate specific numbers, I could see him trumping Buuhan and being somewhere around SSJ Vegetto.

[Hitiro]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I don't think we'll ever get anything about how strong he is in this form. But I would assume that if his transformations remained the same for sealing his power, and 1.5x is the minimum to curbstomp an opponent, then at a minimum he'd be around 360x stronger than SSJ Gohan in his final form(the one before gold)?

[supercat]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I don't think we'll ever get anything about how strong he is in this form. But I would assume that if his transformations remained the same for sealing his power, and 1.5x is the minimum to curbstomp an opponent, then at a minimum he'd be around 360x stronger than SSJ Gohan in his final form(the one before gold)?

Well if SSJ3 is 400x base form, and if Frieza is really around SSJ3 tier, then it would be more like 400x stronger than Base Gohan. I don't know why people have such a hard time believing that First Form Frieza in FnF could potentially be rocking a battle power on par with SSJ3. If Piccolo and Gohan apparently expressed remarks of concern, First Form Frieza must have been a good deal higher than Gohan's max power at the time.

I guess it all depends on how powerful Gohan's max was. At the very least I can't see him wielding a battle power less than his FPSSJ self from the Cell Games. My fan based speculation is that he is closer to his Post Z Sword self in terms of power. With either case, First Form Frieza must have been a good deal stronger than Gohan to prompt such a remark from Piccolo.

The only way I could see First Form Frieza being far weaker than SSJ3, and perhaps even weaker than Super Perfect Cell is if Gohan lost so much power that he is merely on par with SSJ Goku from Namek.

However, given his track record of retaining power (taking into consideration that he does seem to get rusty to some extent), I find it extremely hard to believe that Gohan's power has been reduced to SSJ Goku (On Namek) tier.

Furthermore, assuming Piccolo is Cell Jr. tier, and Shisami is at or around this level as well, Gohan one-shotting Shisami could be an implication that his power is still on par with his Z Sword self.

[Hitiro]

Do we have any idea how powerful Freeza's first form is yet? This is what I'm most interested in.

I don't think we'll ever get anything about how strong he is in this form. But I would assume that if his transformations remained the same for sealing his power, and 1.5x is the minimum to curbstomp an opponent, then at a minimum he'd be around 360x stronger than SSJ Gohan in his final form(the one before gold)?

Well if SSJ3 is 400x base form, and if Freeza is really around SSJ3 tier, then it would be more like 400x stronger than Base Gohan. I don't know why people have such a hard time believing that First Form Freeza in FnF could potentially be rocking a battle power on par with SSJ3. If Piccolo and Gohan apparently expressed remarks of concern, First Form Freeza must have been a good deal higher than Gohan's max power at the time.

I guess it all depends on how powerful Gohan's max was. At the very least I can't see him wielding a battle power less than his FPSSJ self from the Cell Games. My fan based speculation is that he is closer to his Post Z Sword self in terms of power. With either case, First Form Freeza must have been a good deal stronger than Gohan to prompt such a remark from Piccolo.

The only way I could see First Form Freeza being far weaker than SSJ3, and perhaps even weaker than Super Perfect Cell is if Gohan lost so much power that he is merely on par with SSJ Goku from Namek.

However, given his track record of retaining power (taking into consideration that he does seem to get rusty to some extent), I find it extremely hard to believe that Gohan's power has been reduced to SSJ Goku (On Namek) tier.

Furthermore, assuming Piccolo is Cell Jr. tier, and Shisami is at or around this level as well, Gohan one-shotting Shisami could be an implication that his power is still on par with his Z Sword self.

I was going off the bare minimum, of course it's highly possible first form Freeza is stronger than SSJ3 Goku. At a minimum Freeza's final form would be 18,000x stronger than Base Gohan. That's a lot stronger than SSJ3 Goku. But like I said. This is the bare minimum. I was also assuming that Base Gohan could possibly still be higher than SSJ3 Goku because of the Rou Kaioshin power-up. But I've yet to see the movie or form a real opinion on how strong Gohan is here.