Is Super Saiyan 2 really only twice as strong?

[rereboy]

It looked to me more like Cell just getting caught off guard due to being careless. Krillin was able to knock Nappa flying when he was being careless but it doesn't mean he was anywhere near as strong as him.

Those situations always have the fighter being attacked by another unexpected fighter from an unseen angle. Cell was paying attention to Gohan and he was still hit, knocked down and he even bled from his mouth with just one regular kick.

[90sDBZ]

It looked to me more like Cell just getting caught off guard due to being careless. Krillin was able to knock Nappa flying when he was being careless but it doesn't mean he was anywhere near as strong as him.

Those situations always have the fighter being attacked by another unexpected fighter from an unseen angle. Cell was paying attention to Gohan and he was still hit, knocked down and he even bled from his mouth with just one regular kick.

Nappa was paying attention to Krillin right after he got hit but managed to get hit a 2nd time. Another example is Gohan kicking Nappa flying while Nappa was approaching him. We know for a fact that even an enraged Saiyan Saga Gohan wasn't anywhere close to Nappa in power.

[rereboy]

Nappa was paying attention to Krillin right after he got hit but managed to get hit a 2nd time. Another example is Gohan kicking Nappa flying while Nappa was approaching him. We know for a fact that even an enraged Saiyan Saga Gohan wasn't anywhere close to Nappa in power.

If you are talking about Nappa getting hit by Krillin after Piccolo's surprise attack, that was only effective because it was immediately after Piccolo's surprise attack and Nappa was still reeling from it.

As for Gohan, it was demonstrated in that fight that he had rage boosts and that he could reach quite a high power level with them, good enough to even make Nappa feel pain when he counters them (as he commented after countering Gohan's Ki blast). Therefore, that's not a case of someone weak getting an effective surprise attack on someone incomparably superior. Similar to the Cell's fight, it's simply a case of Gohan revealing what he is capable of... Gohan was simply strong enough to land a hit or two head on on Nappa. Just like he was strong enough to knock Cell down. Only, in the Nappa fight he was his first fight and he was scared but he quickly rose above that. And in the Cell fight he was just being stupid.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

But Goku made it sound like Gohan was going to get some unobtainable vast amount of power that only he could achieve which is why they didn't.

How would Goku know that? Every step of the Super Saiyan experiments the four saiyans were trying out was a shot in the dark.

Twofold over Super Saiyan is fine, the series was long past the point that power levels were so ludicrously huge that its all you need, and so imprecise that that you really cannot argue against it because you have no real data. Though it must be granted that the Cell Games take the crown of the biggest pile of strength confusion in the series by virtue of cramming it into such a small space. You should not be asking why Gohan only needed a twofold boost, you should be asking why Trunks and Vegeta were never remotely viable options after going in the Room another day.

[90sDBZ]

Nappa was paying attention to Krillin right after he got hit but managed to get hit a 2nd time. Another example is Gohan kicking Nappa flying while Nappa was approaching him. We know for a fact that even an enraged Saiyan Saga Gohan wasn't anywhere close to Nappa in power.

If you are talking about Nappa getting hit by Krillin after Piccolo's surprise attack, that was only effective because it was immediately after Piccolo's surprise attack and Nappa was still reeling from it.

As for Gohan, it was demonstrated in that fight that he had rage boosts and that he could reach quite a high power level with them, good enough to even make Nappa feel pain when he counters them (as he commented after countering Gohan's Ki blast). Therefore, that's not a case of someone weak getting an effective surprise attack on someone incomparably superior. Similar to the Cell's fight, it's simply a case of Gohan revealing what he is capable of... Gohan was simply strong enough to land a hit or two head on on Nappa. Just like he was strong enough to knock Cell down. Only, in the Nappa fight he was his first fight and he was scared but he quickly rose above that. And in the Cell fight he was just being stupid.

I'm not talking about the bit where Krillin and Piccolo team up. I'm talking about the later bit right before Krillin uses Destructo Disk. He sends Nappa flying backwards with a punch and then hits him flying again before dodging a punch.

Gohan had rage boosts, but during the Saiyan saga even they couldn't bring him close to Nappa in power. An enraged Gohan while using the Masenko after Piccolo's death was still only 2800. Nappa actually does alright against a Pre-Kaioken Goku later who is at 8000, so it's safe to assume Nappa is at least 6000-7000. This proves that a significantly weaker fighter can knock down a stronger opponent. Gohan knocking Cell down doesn't prove that he was already stronger than him or even equal to him.

[rereboy]

I'm not talking about the bit where Krillin and Piccolo team up. I'm talking about the later bit right before Krillin uses Destructo Disk. He sends Nappa flying backwards with a punch and then hits him flying again before dodging a punch.

Same thing. The second blow was immediately after the surprise one. Krillin was able to land it for the same reason he was able to land one immediately after Piccolo's surprise blow: Nappa was still reeling in from the surprise blow.

Gohan had rage boosts, but during the Saiyan saga even they couldn't bring him close to Nappa in power. An enraged Gohan while using the Masenko after Piccolo's death was still only 2800. Nappa actually does alright against a Pre-Kaioken Goku later who is at 8000, so it's safe to assume Nappa is at least 6000-7000. This proves that a significantly weaker fighter can knock down a stronger opponent. Gohan knocking Cell down doesn't prove that he was already stronger than him or even equal to him.

Gohan landed blows on Nappa head on and caused him pain with a Ki attack while Nappa was directly paying attention to him. Nappa saw him coming and still was unable to protect himself and was unable to completely shrug off his ki attack and thus it caused him pain. Gohan was simply strong and fast enough to do that. Therefore, unlike the other characters, Gohan was shown to not require surprise to be able to land blows on Nappa and cause pain to Nappa even when Nappa reflected his attacks. The scenes with surprise attacks were very different since Nappa didn't see them at all before getting hit.

[90sDBZ]

I'm not talking about the bit where Krillin and Piccolo team up. I'm talking about the later bit right before Krillin uses Destructo Disk. He sends Nappa flying backwards with a punch and then hits him flying again before dodging a punch.

Same thing. The second blow was immediately after the surprise one. Krillin was able to land it for the same reason he was able to land one immediately after Piccolo's surprise blow: Nappa was still reeling in from the surprise blow.

Gohan had rage boosts, but during the Saiyan saga even they couldn't bring him close to Nappa in power. An enraged Gohan while using the Masenko after Piccolo's death was still only 2800. Nappa actually does alright against a Pre-Kaioken Goku later who is at 8000, so it's safe to assume Nappa is at least 6000-7000. This proves that a significantly weaker fighter can knock down a stronger opponent. Gohan knocking Cell down doesn't prove that he was already stronger than him or even equal to him.

Gohan landed blows on Nappa head on and caused him pain with a Ki attack while Nappa was directly paying attention to him. Nappa saw him coming and still was unable to protect himself and was unable to completely shrug off his ki attack and thus it caused him pain. Gohan was simply strong and fast enough to do that. Therefore, unlike the other characters, Gohan was shown to not require surprise to be able to land blows on Nappa and cause pain to Nappa even when Nappa reflected his attacks. The scenes with surprise attacks were very different since Nappa didn't see them at all before getting hit.

But Krillin was also able to dodge Nappa's retaliation punch despite Nappa being much more powerful and faster. The same applies to Gohan catching Cell off guard despite Cell going all out in speed. Even a stronger and faster opponent can be made to look like a fool occasionally if they get careless.

And I think you're missing the point with what I said about Saiyan Saga Gohan. I'm not denying that he was stronger than Piccolo and Krillin while enraged. It's just that we know for a fact that the highest his powerlevel got to in that fight was 2800 right after Piccolo's death. We also know that Nappa held his own against a Pre-Kaioken Goku who was at 8000. That strongly implies a huge gap between Nappa and Gohan. And even if the gap between Nappa and Gohan really wasn't so big it still wouldn't support SS1 Gohan actually being stronger than Cell.