Why did Vegeta think immortality would let him beat Freeza ?

[shonenhikada]

In order for a saiyan to benefit from zenkai they need to be near death, but Vegeta would never get to near death if he was immortal. How did he possibly think this plan was going to work ?

[Polyphase Avatron]

I think he just figured if he was injured enough he would get zenkais. We've never seen what being 'immortal' due to a dragonball wish is like in canon, so for all we know it might not work like it did with Garlic Jr. in the movie and filler.

[Tweaker]

I imagine not being able to die is a pretty solid advantage in (eventually) defeating an opponent. I wouldn't expect a foe like Freeza to eventually succumb to fatigue or anything like that, but at the very least Vegeta wouldn't be able to die until he could (eventually) defeat him.

That being said, Vegeta is smart, but sometimes he just makes impulsive decisions. He wanted immortality already; defeating Freeza was a good excuse to get it sooner rather than later.

[Rocketman]

Zenkais are a natural reaction from taking a lot of damage. They aren't a conscious force that can go "oh wait, we can't technically die, no powerup then".

In fact, being immortal, Vegeta could get even stronger zenkais due to how much more damage he could take.

[Adamant]

He was also under the impression that he, Kuririn and Gohan working together might be enough to beat Freeza even without any immortality. He had NO idea how strong the guy really was.

[Retan]

I imagine not being able to die is a pretty solid advantage in (eventually) defeating an opponent. I wouldn't expect a foe like Freeza to eventually succumb to fatigue or anything like that, but at the very least Vegeta wouldn't be able to die until he could (eventually) defeat him.

That being said, Vegeta is smart, but sometimes he just makes impulsive decisions. He wanted immortality already; defeating Freeza was a good excuse to get it sooner rather than later.

And yet isn't that what eventually happans to Freeza in FnF? I mean Freeza succumbing to fatigue?

[Cetra]

Zenkais are a natural reaction from taking a lot of damage. They aren't a conscious force that can go "oh wait, we can't technically die, no powerup then".

In fact, being immortal, Vegeta could get even stronger zenkais due to how much more damage he could take.

And yet it is enough of a conscious force to not allow "just beating up" yourself and getting stronger. So just taking your damage does not help.

[Puto]

It's not that the near-death powerups don't work from attacking yourself, it's his self-preservation instinct that doesn't let him hurt himself as badly as he needs to.

[Lord Beerus]

With immortality, Vegeta could abuse the Zenaki system in epic proportions.

[rereboy]

With immortality, Freeza wouldn't be able to kill him no matter what. So, in his reasoning, he would eventually be on top thanks to that, even if he had to wait for Freeza to be old or gone.

[FoolsGil]

I don't know. Because if Vegeta was immortal, Freeza would go and test it out, by throwing him into the vacuum of space, or have him hurtling to the sun. Or put him in a nigh impenetrable coffin and toss him into the ocean of a no land planet: Immortality doesn't mean squat when there's a million ways to torture someone.

[fadeddreams5]

Frieza could just drag Vegeta to one of his planets and lock him up. No fights, no food, no nothing. Just darkness. Vegeta would wish he could die.

[Rocketman]

And yet it is enough of a conscious force to not allow "just beating up" yourself and getting stronger. So just taking your damage does not help.

Goku beat himself up on the trip to Namek and got zenkais, so...

[Hellspawn28]

I think Toriyama would write a way so that immortal people can die in Dragon Ball so that he can have Vegeta being written to be killed off by #17 and #18 in Trunks timeline. Unless Vegeta, Gohan and Trunks ends up becoming the ones that don't die in Trunks timeline.

[supercat]

I don't even think Vegeta knew the full extent of Frieza's power at the time. He probably felt that Frieza wouldn't get much stronger than his First Form even if he did transform.

[Cold Skin]

I think he didn't think much further than "as long as I can never lose, I'm sure to win eventually."

[DemonRin]

I always thought the basic idea was that as an immortal, Vegeta could basically just keep fighting relentlessly while Freeza would EVENTUALLY run out of stamina. All Vegeta would have to do is just not give up, which if he were immortal would be easy.

I suppose a good question tho is, HOW Immortal would a person granted immortality by the Dragon be?

The Garlic Jr. Movie and arc treat it as if he doesn't only live forever, but is invulnerable as well. If that's the case for Vegeta, Vegeta would be able to beat Freeza easily because being invulnerable means beating him down and imprisoning him would be more difficult. He could continue to resist for longer, hence wearing Freeza down. The Kienzan cutting of Freeza's tail proves that Freeza's high power doesn't translate to him being invulnerable, Vegeta COULD do damage to him I bet if he attacked him right. So Freeza couldn't just shrug Vegeta off and leave, therefore it becomes an endurance test, and the immortal guy wins.

[Kamiccolo9]

I always thought the basic idea was that as an immortal, Vegeta could basically just keep fighting relentlessly while Freeza would EVENTUALLY run out of stamina. All Vegeta would have to do is just not give up, which if he were immortal would be easy.

I suppose a good question tho is, HOW Immortal would a person granted immortality by the Dragon be?

The Garlic Jr. Movie and arc treat it as if he doesn't only live forever, but is invulnerable as well. If that's the case for Vegeta, Vegeta would be able to beat Freeza easily because being invulnerable means beating him down and imprisoning him would be more difficult. He could continue to resist for longer, hence wearing Freeza down. The Kienzan cutting of Freeza's tail proves that Freeza's high power doesn't translate to him being invulnerable, Vegeta COULD do damage to him I bet if he attacked him right. So Freeza couldn't just shrug Vegeta off and leave, therefore it becomes an endurance test, and the immortal guy wins.

This is all assuming that Freeza doesn't just knock Vegeta out, dump him into a star, and leave him immobilized by the gravity and constantly being burned for eternity.

Immortality's a bitch, man.

[supercat]

Well if we go with what happened to Garlic Jr. in terms of invulnerability, then it may not be so bad for Vegeta. He would eventually benefit from enough Zenkais to be considered significant. Or, I could see him taking a bad beating and suddenly turning SSJ out of desperation.

If we completely ignore the invincibility displayed by Garlic Jr., or his ability to regenerate, then I can't say this will end well for Vegeta. With the absence of regeneration, Frieza could blow him up into pieces, rip him apart, and/or leave him mutilated on the floor to suffer in pain. Unless someone puts him into one of those advanced healing chambers from FnF, or Dende somehow heals him, he'll be on the floor mutilated and agonized with the worst pain he's probably ever felt.

With that being said, I'm inclined to believe that immortality also comes with invincibility, which is probably why both Vegeta and Frieza were so adamant about obtaining it. Therefore, the first scenario of Vegeta taking a beating and tapping into his SSJ potential seems the most likely.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well if we go with what happened to Garlic Jr. in terms of invulnerability, then it may not be so bad for Vegeta. He would eventually benefit from enough Zenkais to be considered significant. Or, I could see him taking a bad beating and suddenly turning SSJ out of desperation.

If we completely ignore the invincibility displayed by Garlic Jr., or his ability to regenerate, then I can't say this will end well for Vegeta. With the absence of regeneration, Freeza could blow him up into pieces, rip him apart, and/or leave him mutilated on the floor to suffer in pain. Unless someone puts him into one of those advanced healing chambers from FnF, or Dende somehow heals him, he'll be on the floor mutilated and agonized with the worst pain he's probably ever felt.

With that being said, I'm inclined to believe that immortality also comes with invincibility, which is probably why both Vegeta and Freeza were so adamant about obtaining it. Therefore, the first scenario of Vegeta taking a beating and tapping into his SSJ potential seems the most likely.

Well, if he has the same general invincibility that Garlic Junior had, which was basically total invulnerability, then he may not be able to get near death power ups, if his body doesn't register as having been "near death."

I don't think Freeza really cared about invincibility, as, to his mind, he was already invincible.