MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 3/16/26!)

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, hopefully that explains why I was so keen the other day to get it extra-confirmed that that line is indeed there. I would have looked pretty stupid to have devoted three minutes of my episode to it if the line wasn't there. Thanks for that, by the way!

[coola]

Like somebody said in Youtube comments, fact that Raditz wrap his ail after 1st time Goku grabbed him, would be much better explanation, than "He can cut it off while in danger" i always loved how during these 5 years, Goku and others barely get stronger, even with Piccolo around, yet in just one year, everyone but Chiaotzu PL got over 1000.

[JulieYBM]

Like somebody said in Youtube comments, fact that Raditz wrap his ail after 1st time Goku grabbed him, would be much better explanation, than "He can cut it off while in danger" i always loved how during these 5 years, Goku and others barely get stronger, even with Piccolo around, yet in just one year, everyone but Chiaotzu PL got over 1000.

There were now battle power numbers in the series before these so it's hard to say nobody got much stronger, especially when we see that Gokuu and Piccolo can reach up into the nine hundreds and one thousands.

[Captain Space]

There were now battle power numbers in the series before these so it's hard to say nobody got much stronger, especially when we see that Gokuu and Piccolo can reach up into the nine hundreds and one thousands.

Well, non-bulked up Roshi measured at 139, and by the 23rd Budokai he said that Yamcha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan and Goku had all surpassed him. So that's several steps up from that Goku must have been in that arc, and Piccolo roughly equivalent.

So yeah, even if he was somehow at a resting PL of 139 (he wasn't, but low-end estimate to prove point), it's gone up to 416 five years later...still pretty slow compared to what most of the cast then did in one.

Now, I'd put this mostly down to having a goal they're training for during that year, something they're specifically targeting. Especially Goku, Piccolo and Kuririn who witnessed Raditz's power first-hand.

(I'd also put this down to "the characters are as strong as the plot requires them to be, try not to think too hard about the numbers Toriyama throws out", of course.)

[dbzfan7]

Learn something new everyday. Goku's proclamation makes no sense. Now in comes the theories that will somehow be taken as fact.

On another note I actually appreciate the Raditz fight more now. I totally agree that more team ups should have happened instead of just 1 on 1.

[Captain Space]

On another note I actually appreciate the Raditz fight more now. I totally agree that more team ups should have happened instead of just 1 on 1.

I mean, I guess the fight with Vegeta eventually became that (not to mention several portions of the Nappa fight). After the saiyan saga though...the Guldo fight and a bit of Recoome's...some parts of the Frieza fight...don't think I'd count the cluster**** against 17 and 18 or Piccolo and the androids essentially taking turns to fight Cell. There was some anime-only teamwork in the Cell Jr. and SPC fights (in the manga the teamwork essentially amounted to one well-timed blast from Vegeta)...oh, and there was some teaming-up against Kid Buu.

More than I expected beginning that list, but still yeah, not much in the grand scheme of things.

[Gaffer Tape]

Like somebody said in Youtube comments, fact that Raditz wrap his ail after 1st time Goku grabbed him, would be much better explanation, than "He can cut it off while in danger" i always loved how during these 5 years, Goku and others barely get stronger, even with Piccolo around, yet in just one year, everyone but Chiaotzu PL got over 1000.

While I did (and still do) agree that that would have been a better idea than what we got, don't forget that Piccolo manages to grab Nappa's tail when it's coiled around his body. I mean, it doesn't work, but it apparently has nothing to do with the fact that it's around his waist.

[matt0044]

Actually, I always wondered how Goku could even hold Raditz at all that I never considered the tail thing.

[dbzfan7]

On another note I actually appreciate the Raditz fight more now. I totally agree that more team ups should have happened instead of just 1 on 1.

I mean, I guess the fight with Vegeta eventually became that (not to mention several portions of the Nappa fight). After the saiyan saga though...the Guldo fight and a bit of Recoome's...some parts of the Freeza fight...don't think I'd count the cluster**** against 17 and 18 or Piccolo and the androids essentially taking turns to fight Cell. There was some anime-only teamwork in the Cell Jr. and SPC fights (in the manga the teamwork essentially amounted to one well-timed blast from Vegeta)...oh, and there was some teaming-up against Kid Buu.

More than I expected beginning that list, but still yeah, not much in the grand scheme of things.

Vegeta's had a team up...but it was more 1 on 1. We didn't have Krillin and Gohan fight together or anything like that. Nappa didn't really have this either for the most part. I recall only Krillin and Piccolo doing one team up move...but that was it. Guldo's was just time stop after time stop til Vegeta eventually killed him. Recoome was mainly just 1 on 1. Freeza had a few team up moments...though they were pretty meh and completely unaffected (For obvious reasons though). Filler stuff was actually pretty nice there. Finally Kid Boo I don't think had team ups. It was Goku alone, then Vegeta alone, then Genki Dama with Fat Boo being alone. I don't count Genki Dama as a team battle.

[Captain Space]

Vegeta's had a team up...but it was more 1 on 1. We didn't have Krillin and Gohan fight together or anything like that. Nappa didn't really have this either for the most part. I recall only Krillin and Piccolo doing one team up move...but that was it. Guldo's was just time stop after time stop til Vegeta eventually killed him. Recoome was mainly just 1 on 1. Freeza had a few team up moments...though they were pretty meh and completely unaffected (For obvious reasons though). Filler stuff was actually pretty nice there. Finally Kid Boo I don't think had team ups. It was Goku alone, then Vegeta alone, then Genki Dama with Fat Boo being alone. I don't count Genki Dama as a team battle.

I'd count Gohan distracting Vegeta for Krillin to throw a Kienzan as teamwork, same for Gohan holding Vegeta off while Goku gives the Genkidama to Krillin. And Gohan, Krillin and Piccolo had a couple plans and team attacks throughout the Nappa fight...they just didn't work. Like I said, only parts of Recoome's fight (his attention's on Vegeta, Gohan grabs Vegeta while Krillin kicks his mouth shut at the same time). And if Goku holding Raditz off so Piccolo can charge an attack counts as teamwork, which I'm pretty sure it does, then so does Vegeta doing the same with Kid Buu (in fact, Gohan/Krillin/Piccolo doing the same with Frieza, too).

[dbzfan7]

Vegeta's had a team up...but it was more 1 on 1. We didn't have Krillin and Gohan fight together or anything like that. Nappa didn't really have this either for the most part. I recall only Krillin and Piccolo doing one team up move...but that was it. Guldo's was just time stop after time stop til Vegeta eventually killed him. Recoome was mainly just 1 on 1. Freeza had a few team up moments...though they were pretty meh and completely unaffected (For obvious reasons though). Filler stuff was actually pretty nice there. Finally Kid Boo I don't think had team ups. It was Goku alone, then Vegeta alone, then Genki Dama with Fat Boo being alone. I don't count Genki Dama as a team battle.

I'd count Gohan distracting Vegeta for Krillin to throw a Kienzan as teamwork, same for Gohan holding Vegeta off while Goku gives the Genkidama to Krillin. And Gohan, Krillin and Piccolo had a couple plans and team attacks throughout the Nappa fight...they just didn't work. Like I said, only parts of Recoome's fight (his attention's on Vegeta, Gohan grabs Vegeta while Krillin kicks his mouth shut at the same time). And if Goku holding Raditz off so Piccolo can charge an attack counts as teamwork, which I'm pretty sure it does, then so does Vegeta doing the same with Kid Buu (in fact, Gohan/Krillin/Piccolo doing the same with Freeza, too).

For the Vegeta fight it's not quite on the same level as Goku & Piccolo vs Raditz...but we can count it was teamwork.

I don't quite remember the couple of plans against Nappa. I only remember like 1 or 2 which had Piccolo grab his tail, and 1 team up attack with Krillin. I should go look up the battle again.

Yeah well that's very brief and not exactly a team up fight...more of a team up moment...a brief one at it. I don't appreciate it much though.

Those are teamwork yes...but the point was having less 1 on 1 I think. Those still amounted to 1 on 1 instead of 2 people fighting. We don't even get Fat Boo and Vegeta teaming up. It's just 1 on 1 til the end.

[Captain Space]

Those are teamwork yes...but the point was having less 1 on 1 I think. Those still amounted to 1 on 1 instead of 2 people fighting. We don't even get Fat Boo and Vegeta teaming up. It's just 1 on 1 til the end.

That's fair, if that's more what you were getting at.

[dbzfan7]

Those are teamwork yes...but the point was having less 1 on 1 I think. Those still amounted to 1 on 1 instead of 2 people fighting. We don't even get Fat Boo and Vegeta teaming up. It's just 1 on 1 til the end.

That's fair, if that's more what you were getting at.

Yeah that is more what I mean. Like in movie 9 we have Bojacks gang team up on Gohan. It's not just one guy distracting him and then another interferes. All the members of the group team up on Gohan. It's a 3 on 1 fight, and sometimes 4 on 1 when Bojack joined in.

[Captain Space]

Yeah that is more what I mean. Like in movie 9 we have Bojacks gang team up on Gohan. It's not just one guy distracting him and then another interferes. All the members of the group team up on Gohan. It's a 3 on 1 fight, and sometimes 4 on 1 when Bojack joined in.

Heroes taking on multiple villains happens more often than the reverse, yeah.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah that is more what I mean. Like in movie 9 we have Bojacks gang team up on Gohan. It's not just one guy distracting him and then another interferes. All the members of the group team up on Gohan. It's a 3 on 1 fight, and sometimes 4 on 1 when Bojack joined in.

Heroes taking on multiple villains happens more often than the reverse, yeah.

I know right...though that's the only one I can think of when the villains win or at least had the advantage. Usually the heroes (or Goku alone) rofl stomp the villains minions and that's it. In movie 9 it actually worked for a while. Heroes I've seen usually have 1 on 1 fights while someone prepares to do something. Like as you said just holding off a foe or distracting them til the big attack is ready.

[matt0044]

Though when it comes to Vegeta, the prince of all Saiyans and arrogance personified, I can see how he'd insist on fighting alone. It's stupid but sensibly stupid on his part.

[Gaffer Tape]

While I guess you can argue it happens to varying degrees in most battles, I guess I am talking about most examples where it does happen. Even if it is just person fighting, people assisting. While it's not quite as direct as Goku and Raditz, the heroes versus Vegeta is an example I think is very good.

[Captain Space]

While I guess you can argue it happens to varying degrees in most battles, I guess I am talking about most examples where it does happen. Even if it is just person fighting, people assisting. While it's not quite as direct as Goku and Raditz, the heroes versus Vegeta is an example I think is very good.

I think that's just a great battle overall, relying as it does at varying points on all sorts of factors--cunning strategy, superior power, sheer grit, just dumb luck...and on both sides at that.

[Kid Buu]

I disagree with you teamwork examples. You're two samples seem to be Piccolo vs. 2nd Form Freeza and SSJ Vegeta vs. Android 18 (correct me if I'm wrong). Piccolo was already strong enough to handle Freeza 2nd Form and the others jumping in the #18 battle would lead to #17 interfering.

I also disagree with you on Serpent Road. I think showing Hell would ruin the mystique of it, I know it the Saiyan Arc anime and Resurrection of F did.

Wait, I thought Nappa did want to bring back Raditz, but Vegeta vetoed it?

[Mewzard]

I also disagree with you on Serpent Road. I think showing Hell would ruin the mystique of it, I know it the Saiyan Arc anime and Resurrection of F did.

Wait, I thought Nappa did want to bring back Raditz, but Vegeta vetoed it?

I don't know, given the time the Saiyan Arc occurs, I would have found it amusing to have Goku crash in on Hades and his Specters in Hell before the Saints could (ah, late 80s Jump).

Joking aside, Resurrection 'F' 's Hell certainly was a very Toriyama way of doing Hell. Taking all those expectations we would have from other stories and religions and promptly piledriving them through the floor.

You might be right about Nappa though, I do seem to recall Vegeta dismissing that idea as a wasted wish