Does Goku lack empathy?

[MarCas92]

I've always thought so. Being from a race that was breed to battle/kill, it makes sense that his brain wouldn't have developed the area that makes him capable of feeling what others are.

For those who don't know.
Sympathy:(noun) feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.

Empathy: (noun) the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

Goku is a very sympathetic person, you see this with all the good deeds he does throughout the series. But if you take empathy away from Goku, all of his dumb/irresponsible actions start to make sense. He definitely gets wiser to UNDERSTANDING others feelings but he never resonates on the same emotional level as anybody.

Thoughts?

[fadeddreams5]

I would think he possesses some form of empathy. His sorrow and rage are shown both times Krillin dies. So if someone loses a loved one, I'm sure Goku would understand what they feel. There was also that one time him and Gohan were in the lookout sensing the fight between Piccolo and Cell. He knew exactly what Gohan was feeling since he himself wanted to save everyone (vaguely remember this scene, tbh).

That said, I also feel he's been desensitized towards the concept of death because of the dragon balls, and realizing his potential has made him more distant to his friends and family. >_>;

[rereboy]

Sympathy is merely a part of empathy. Someone who is unable to have empathy, also can't have sympathy.

I don't think that Goku is "deficient" in terms of empathy. Nobody is able to fully understand 100% of other people's feelings and thoughts. Goku, due to having grown up in the mountains by himself, is simply less socially sensitive, more carefree and wild than the others who grew up with other people in cities or towns.

[Hitiro]

He understands the way Vegeta feels enough to hide the SSJ3 form because he knew that Vegeta would be upset about it.

[Marco Polo]

Goku has great empathy. He literally read Krillin's mind on Namek.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku is most certainly empathetic. I mean, his speech after he buries Vegeta on Namek pretty much epitomises the empathy Goku has for others.

[McDonaldsGuy]

Hard to say. Guy is an idiot though for allowing monstrous beings like Furiza and Vegeta to live. What I mean is by allowing Furiza to live, he's doomed billions of beings. He seems to only care that he can beat Furiza.

[NitroEX]

There were a few times when Goku didn't seem all that empathetic. Take for instance the time he arrives on Namek only to find Gohan lying there with a broken neck. Yes he had senzu beans to revive him but I mean surely seeing your kid in a position like that would freak any parent the fuck out and rush to his aid right away only... Goku's scarily calm about the whole thing. He even seems to take his time walking over there and giving him the bean, c'mon man!

Some portrayals of him have been more empathetic though like for instance when he revived that dying bird in the first Cooler film. People who genuinely care for animals tend to be pretty empathetic people.

[supercat]

Despite Goku's seemingly unparalleled levels of sympathy, I'm going to have to say that he may lack certain aspects of empathy.

As a warrior, he seems to fully understand the constant emotional struggle Vegeta is facing due to his shortcomings on the battlefield. From showing compassion towards a dying Vegeta, all the way to the point of not revealing his SSJ3 transformation, Goku has shown that he really respects the pride of the proud prince, and even the feelings of despair that come with that pride.

Letting Vegeta and Trunks enter the RoSaT first, and presenting them with that chance to take down Cell / Androids was in a way yielding to the prince of Saiyans. Despite not outwardly expressing it, it's possible that Goku knows exactly what it feels like to be in Vegeta's situation.

Goku's outlook on finding an invincible opponent is always filled with enthusiasm as his goal is to simply push himself to his utmost limits. It could also possibly be that because he knows deep down inside he could train and surpass any fighter, he is never in the same state of turmoil Vegeta is in. Regardless of their different perspective on things, I think he still has the emotional capacity to empathize a fellow warrior, as they share one major common interest: their love for battle and reaching new levels of power.

As an individual, whether or not Goku feels empathy is a bit subjective. While I think he certainly does understand the pain that others experience when losing a loved one, he seems to completely neglect looking into how his wife and sons might feel if he leaves them for years at a time.

The whole thing about him opting out of being wished back can also be viewed subjectively. If the sole purpose of choosing not to come back was only to train in other world, it's a pretty clear indication that he may not feel empathy in the way most fathers and husbands do. If his reason really was to prevent Earth from being attacked by future villains who may be after him, then I suppose it could be that his strong sense of sympathy once again showed itself in the form of another sacrifice. Although, I'm sort of having a hard time wrapping my head around the latter, as I'm not sure why Goku wouldn't consider the possibility of preemptively preparing himself to handle any threat. Given how he's always training, wouldn't that make the most sense?

It's almost as if his whole mindset on being a father and husband is, as long as his family is safe, and he does his job in protecting them, his physical absence in their lives would only negligibly affect them.

Lastly, his love for battle seems to affect his judgement to a great degree sometimes. I never got why he would endanger the lives of millions by letting an evil ruler like Frieza go.

[Deathbringer]

Goku's personality is very hard to define, especially since he's not meant to be very bright so it's hard to tell what is going through his head.

He could be seen to be lacking empathy in the way that in the Cell games he didn't seem to care about Gohan's feelings and had to get him to become SSJ2 no matter the cost, on the one hand you can say that the stakes were too high and Goku had to do whatever it took to stop Cell, even if it meant emotionally breaking his son for a brief while, however lets remember the times in the RoSaT where Goku was playing around and being very fatherly towards Gohan. It taught Gohan to keep his humanity. If Goku was cold towards him for a year then Gohan could have become rather bitter and uncontrollable after going SSJ2.

I mean I always see people trying to push the whole "Goku is an asshole and a bad father" aspect, even Toriyama said that stuff about "the cracks beneath" which was interesting but Goku doesn't lack empathy. It just sometimes he just has to do what needs to be done, remember when he teleported Cell and died with him? You could say that he wasn't thinking of everyone else's feelings of sadness that they would have but you could also have the much stronger argument that Goku had no choice and he saved everyone's lives by doing that.

Perhaps Goku blocked out his own feelings in order to become fearless but in turn that may have meant he doesn't display enough emotion, when he was a kid he was fearless because he was naive and yeah I guess he didn't really display that much empathy as a kid either but you can tell he feels genuine love for people even though you do get the occasional moment like at the 23rd tournament where Goku didn't seem to be in love with Chi-chi and also didn't seem to understand how she felt about him, that was clearly meant to be from him being naive, so I think we should remember not to mix up naivety with a genuine lack of empathy.

Damn I can't tell if Goku is just inconsistently written or if he's actually much more complex than anyone ever considered

[SSJ Human]

Goku's personality is very hard to define, especially since he's not meant to be very bright so it's hard to tell what is going through his head.

He could be seen to be lacking empathy in the way that in the Cell games he didn't seem to care about Gohan's feelings and had to get him to become SSJ2 no matter the cost, on the one hand you can say that the stakes were too high and Goku had to do whatever it took to stop Cell, even if it meant emotionally breaking his son for a brief while, however lets remember the times in the RoSaT where Goku was playing around and being very fatherly towards Gohan. It taught Gohan to keep his humanity. If Goku was cold towards him for a year then Gohan could have become rather bitter and uncontrollable after going SSJ2.

I mean I always see people trying to push the whole "Goku is an asshole and a bad father" aspect, even Toriyama said that stuff about "the cracks beneath" which was interesting but Goku doesn't lack empathy. It just sometimes he just has to do what needs to be done, remember when he teleported Cell and died with him? You could say that he wasn't thinking of everyone else's feelings of sadness that they would have but you could also have the much stronger argument that Goku had no choice and he saved everyone's lives by doing that.

Perhaps Goku blocked out his own feelings in order to become fearless but in turn that may have meant he doesn't display enough emotion, when he was a kid he was fearless because he was naive and yeah I guess he didn't really display that much empathy as a kid either but you can tell he feels genuine love for people even though you do get the occasional moment like at the 23rd tournament where Goku didn't seem to be in love with Chi-chi and also didn't seem to understand how she felt about him, that was clearly meant to be from him being naive, so I think we should remember not to mix up naivety with a genuine lack of empathy.

Damn I can't tell if Goku is just inconsistently written or if he's actually much more complex than anyone ever considered

I'd wager both.

[FoolsGil]

Is it not empathy that wills him to give mercy?

[supercat]

Well despite the fact that his intentions for wanting Gohan to fight Cell were presumably for the purpose of grooming the young fighter into becoming the next hero, I'd say he addressed certain aspects of it with a partial absence of empathy. While I can't say that this action completely takes Goku away from the realm of empathy, it did partially in some regards, as he failed to really evaluate how his son may have been feeling about the whole situation. He could clearly see that his son was in emotional and physical pain, yet he still deemed it appropriate for the attempt of drawing out the boy's anger to continue.

Although trying to recreate a hero to maintain peace is a noble action, if the candidate in mind does not embody the right mindset and/or desires for such a path, I feel it is appropriate to discontinue the endeavor. I think the main aspect about this whole ordeal that portrayed Goku's lack of empathy was how he almost automatically assumed his son would have the same ambitions / desires as him, and would hence be willing to follow the same path. It's almost as if he failed to consider the fact that his son is a separate person from he is, and thus may possess a completely different outlook on life.

We could always assume that he had no other choice, as Gohan would have been the only one capable of saving the day. However, he should have been considerate enough to train harder in advance, just in case his son wouldn't be able to come through. Instead, he puts all his eggs in one basket, and fails to realize what the outcome would be if his son had failed.

With all that being said, I don't want to negate the great things Goku has done. Suiting his son up to be his successor, as well as putting him up for the challenge of taking down a major villain can all be viewed as honorable deeds.

[soulnova]

You know, that got me thinking.... I guess it has to do with him slowly embracing his Saiyan side. He was very adamant at the beginning when Raditz showed up to accept he could be -anything- like them. But then he gradually starts opening himself up to his heritage starting during his fight with Freeza and culminating when he became a Super Saiyan. In any case, he realized he and Vegeta shared a very similar outlook about life and fights... they were Saiyans after all! "I am a Saiyan warrior. This is who I am" and you can see him very content and in peace with that.


I believe Goku might have assumed Gohan would have gone through the same process as he did, hell, the kid even became Super Saiyan and managed to control it so Goku must have assumed Gohan had the same drive as a Saiyan warrior like him and Vegeta.

I went back and read the part of the manga when Piccolo is reprimanding him for not helping Gohan, and the moment he realizes how wrong he was... is priceless. He honestly expected the same -instinct/fighting spirit- that had always motivated him would allow Gohan to unleash his power and defeat Cell. He realized a little too late Piccolo was right.

[supercat]

You know, that got me thinking.... I guess it has to do with him slowly embracing his Saiyan side. He was very adamant at the beginning when Raditz showed up to accept he could be -anything- like them. But then he gradually starts opening himself up to his heritage starting during his fight with Freeza and culminating when he became a Super Saiyan. In any case, he realized he and Vegeta shared a very similar outlook about life and fights... they were Saiyans after all! "I am a Saiyan warrior. This is who I am" and you can see him very content and in peace with that.


I believe Goku might have assumed Gohan would have gone through the same process as he did, hell, the kid even became Super Saiyan and managed to control it so Goku must have assumed Gohan had the same drive as a Saiyan warrior like him and Vegeta.

I went back and read the part of the manga when Piccolo is reprimanding him for not helping Gohan, and the moment he realizes how wrong he was... is priceless. He honestly expected the same -instinct/fighting spirit- that had always motivated him would allow Gohan to unleash his power and defeat Cell. He realized a little too late Piccolo was right.

I definitely see all of that being a possibility.

In addition to Goku wanting to mold his son into a hero, he probably did want him to embrace that passionate desire to fight to some extent.

Perhaps it was combination of his own righteous mentality and his Saiyan passion that got Goku to believe Gohan would also abide by a mixture of these traits. Given the fact that Gohan is just as righteous as his father, and that to an extent has shown excitement at the prospect of growing stronger, Goku probably felt his son possessed all the right traits to inherit the privilege of being a hero / warrior.

[soulnova]

You know, that got me thinking.... I guess it has to do with him slowly embracing his Saiyan side. He was very adamant at the beginning when Raditz showed up to accept he could be -anything- like them. But then he gradually starts opening himself up to his heritage starting during his fight with Freeza and culminating when he became a Super Saiyan. In any case, he realized he and Vegeta shared a very similar outlook about life and fights... they were Saiyans after all! "I am a Saiyan warrior. This is who I am" and you can see him very content and in peace with that.


I believe Goku might have assumed Gohan would have gone through the same process as he did, hell, the kid even became Super Saiyan and managed to control it so Goku must have assumed Gohan had the same drive as a Saiyan warrior like him and Vegeta.

I went back and read the part of the manga when Piccolo is reprimanding him for not helping Gohan, and the moment he realizes how wrong he was... is priceless. He honestly expected the same -instinct/fighting spirit- that had always motivated him would allow Gohan to unleash his power and defeat Cell. He realized a little too late Piccolo was right.

I definitely see all of that being a possibility.

In addition to Goku wanting to mold his son into a hero, he probably did want him to embrace that passionate desire to fight to some extent.

Perhaps it was combination of his own righteous mentality and his Saiyan passion that got Goku to believe Gohan would also abide by a mixture of these traits. Given the fact that Gohan is just as righteous as his father, and that to an extent has shown excitement at the prospect of growing stronger, Goku probably felt his son possessed all the right traits to inherit the privilege of being a hero / warrior.

I wouldn't call Goku righteous. Good? Yes, definitely. But not righteous.

I don't think Goku wanted Gohan to become something he didn't want to. He wasn't there when Gohan was forced to train by Piccolo at the start of the Saiyan saga... so that's why Piccolo had the insight about WHY Gohan wasn't what Goku thought he was.

Gohan NEVER told him no when asked to train. In fact Goku had even witnessed Gohan telling off ChiChi because he wanted to go to Namek himself. Even when the 3 year training started Gohan went along with the training. He knew what was at stake and wanted to HELP, but he wasn't seeking the chance to measure up against the androids or later Cell. Gohan was driven by his necessity to protect his family and friends... and I believe that's what Goku confused for the "Saiyan's fighting spirit".

[supercat]

You know, that got me thinking.... I guess it has to do with him slowly embracing his Saiyan side. He was very adamant at the beginning when Raditz showed up to accept he could be -anything- like them. But then he gradually starts opening himself up to his heritage starting during his fight with Freeza and culminating when he became a Super Saiyan. In any case, he realized he and Vegeta shared a very similar outlook about life and fights... they were Saiyans after all! "I am a Saiyan warrior. This is who I am" and you can see him very content and in peace with that.


I believe Goku might have assumed Gohan would have gone through the same process as he did, hell, the kid even became Super Saiyan and managed to control it so Goku must have assumed Gohan had the same drive as a Saiyan warrior like him and Vegeta.

I went back and read the part of the manga when Piccolo is reprimanding him for not helping Gohan, and the moment he realizes how wrong he was... is priceless. He honestly expected the same -instinct/fighting spirit- that had always motivated him would allow Gohan to unleash his power and defeat Cell. He realized a little too late Piccolo was right.

I definitely see all of that being a possibility.

In addition to Goku wanting to mold his son into a hero, he probably did want him to embrace that passionate desire to fight to some extent.

Perhaps it was combination of his own righteous mentality and his Saiyan passion that got Goku to believe Gohan would also abide by a mixture of these traits. Given the fact that Gohan is just as righteous as his father, and that to an extent has shown excitement at the prospect of growing stronger, Goku probably felt his son possessed all the right traits to inherit the privilege of being a hero / warrior.

I wouldn't call Goku righteous. Good? Yes, definitely. But not righteous.

I don't think Goku wanted Gohan to become something he didn't want to. He wasn't there when Gohan was forced to train by Piccolo at the start of the Saiyan saga... so that's why Piccolo had the insight about WHY Gohan wasn't what Goku thought he was.

Gohan NEVER told him no when asked to train. In fact Goku had even witnessed Gohan telling off ChiChi because he wanted to go to Namek himself. Even when the 3 year training started Gohan went along with the training. He knew what was at stake and wanted to HELP, but he wasn't seeking the chance to measure up against the androids or later Cell. Gohan was driven by his necessity to protect his family and friends... and I believe that's what Goku confused for the "Saiyan's fighting spirit".

Well I've always considered Goku to be quite righteous and noble from almost all standpoints. Of course, this is barring some of the crazy things he's done for the sake of having the opportunity to fight a strong opponent. By far the worst example of this was letting an evil tyrant like Frieza go. Other than that, I always felt that Goku has shown a high degree of virtue.

Goku not being present when Piccolo took Gohan to train may be one reason why the Namekian had more awareness on Gohan's perception on battling. I also believe that it's because Piccolo seems to have an adept sense in seeing through the intention of others compared to Goku. A bit off topic, but still somewhat relevant, if we recall what happened with Raditz, and even with Frieza, we know just how naive Goku can be. He may be intelligent on the battlefield and in many other aspects, but I feel because he seemingly still bears the heart of a child at times, he may not necessarily understand the intricate composition of another person's deeply rooted desires and/or genuine preferences. This could also be why he may have interpreted Gohan wanting to train for the sake of protecting his loved ones as, Gohan training to defend and gain power simultaneously. While the latter is likely true to a certain extent, Goku probably did not see to what extent that desire extended out to, and merely assumed it was to the same degree as his own.

[soulnova]

Yeah, he pretty much misread Gohan.

Speaking of "righteous", Toriyama had said he is surprised Goku is regarded like that. He didn't meant him to be regarded that way. He might have failed partially to convey his vision of Goku through the story but the signs were certainly there.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/03/27/ne ... ial-talks/

Toriyama said. "There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows."


Toriyama reiterates his feelings on Goku’s personality and motivations that he discussed in the WIRED interview so many years earlier.

"At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result."

[supercat]

Yeah, he pretty much misread Gohan.

Speaking of "righteous", Toriyama had said he is surprised Goku is regarded like that. He didn't meant him to be regarded that way. He might have failed partially to convey his vision of Goku through the story but the signs were certainly there.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/03/27/ne ... ial-talks/

Toriyama said. "There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows."


Toriyama reiterates his feelings on Goku’s personality and motivations that he discussed in the WIRED interview so many years earlier.

"At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only “to become stronger than before”, so much so that it feels like “there’s no one as pure as this person”. And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about “wanting to become stronger”. What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result."

Very interesting read! That sort of explains why Goku is the way he is at times. While I always knew he had a deep passion for seeking out stronger opponents, I couldn't quite wrap my head around him letting someone like Frieza go. With his quest for getting a good challenge at the top of his list of priorities, it doesn't seem too surprising that he would want to rematch a being who could improve so drastically in a matter of months.

Leaving his family for the sake of training could also support all of this as well.

[SaintEvolution]

I never though that Goku really lacks empathy. He just likes to be calm in an extra way, that other people couldn't reach, in some times.