Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Kamiccolo9]

Whoa calm down. They was wrong.. so? Everyone can be wrong at some point. But can you blame them?

See there's the difference. We have seen SSJ Goku revert back and transform. We have seem him go beyond SSJ but yet go SSJ again. With Mystic however ever since it's debut we have never seen SSJ(save GT) from Gohan until nownow. Even m13 had Mystic.

VeryVery different scenarios. It's not hard to see how people will think he can't go SSJ.

I'm perfectly calm. And yes, I can blame someone for taking their long-held assumptions as fact when nothing has ever confirmed them. My actual job requires it.

Oh cool! Really! Wow! What profession? Also I was referring to everyoneeveryone. Meaning both people who assume but took it as a "unstated fact" and people who made it "Undisputed fact".

I teach history. And if someone were to turn in a paper with all of their information based on unsubstantiated facts, I would fail them. I've done it before.

And if people take things as unstated facts, without any concrete evidence behind it, then that's their own fault when it turns out they were wrong.

[TheGmGoken]

When you get unstated facts it's just mean you can be wrong or right. So it's not their fault nor are they effected by in.

[Kamiccolo9]

When you get unstated facts it's just mean you can be wrong or right. So it's not their fault nor are they effected by in.

It is completely their fault when they argue that newer material is wrong when it violates nothing but their own assumptions.

[TheGmGoken]

When you get unstated facts it's just mean you can be wrong or right. So it's not their fault nor are they effected by in.

It is completely their fault when they argue that newer material is wrong when it violates nothing but their own assumptions.

Thats the people who believe that it's undisputed facts not unstated facts. Minor differences but big difference.

But to finish this out. I was just saying that it's not hard to believe that preBoG Gohan can't go Ssj.

[Kamiccolo9]

When you get unstated facts it's just mean you can be wrong or right. So it's not their fault nor are they effected by in.

It is completely their fault when they argue that newer material is wrong when it violates nothing but their own assumptions.

Thats the people who believe that it's undisputed facts not unstated facts. Minor differences but big difference.

But to finish this out. I was just saying that it's not hard to believe that preBoG Gohan can't go Ssj.

That has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

Having believed that before is fine. Continuing to insist that it is an undeniable fact despite nothing saying so to begin with, and being blatantly contradicted now is the problem.

[fadeddreams5]

When you get unstated facts it's just mean you can be wrong or right. So it's not their fault nor are they effected by in.

It is completely their fault when they argue that newer material is wrong when it violates nothing but their own assumptions.

Assuming we're only discussing Gohan here, it violates a line specifically stated in a version of the show I watched. After reading the manga, the line implied the same thing.

But I suppose there is no real proof he can't go SSJ and mystic when we go by the latter. Seeing this is not something I like, but it is what it is.

That said, SSJ Gohan in BoG was very likely an error either way.

[Kamiccolo9]

When you get unstated facts it's just mean you can be wrong or right. So it's not their fault nor are they effected by in.

It is completely their fault when they argue that newer material is wrong when it violates nothing but their own assumptions.

Assuming we're only discussing Gohan here, it violates a line specifically stated in a version of the show I watched. After reading the manga, the line implied the same thing.

But I suppose there is no real proof he can't go SSJ and mystic when we go by the latter. Seeing this is not something I like, but it is what it is.

That said, SSJ Gohan in BoG was very likely an error either way.

What line? What version of the show?

Because, as Cetra pointed out, a later line pretty clearly says that Gohan can become a Super Saiyan.

[fadeddreams5]

What line? What version of the show?

Because, as Cetra pointed out, a later line pretty clearly says that Gohan can become a Super Saiyan.

First, notice how he keeps his green eyes when he powers up at 0:50. This is before Old Kai completes his ritual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VnaqC8kd4

Next, again, the line: "All I have to do is become a super saiyan and believe."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQrK3UYlzr0

Before that, Old Kai tells him to do just that. Unfortunately, I can't find the full clip. According to that line, he is literally becoming a SSJ. Put two and two together, and it makes sense. As for Goku's question over whether they should be SSJs before fusing, I can't find the clip, but based on the logic above, Gohan becoming a SSJ does not mean he'd actually have blond hair and green eyes; he already IS a SSJ!

Based on the dub, they're one and the same. In Wrath of the Dragon and several video game openings, he's seen powering up to this form while everyone else goes SSJ too. So it's just really weird to think that he can tap into both, yet the form that does not change his appearance is stronger.

Me, personally, I would love it if he could tap into two separate sources of ki. It makes him unique, especially if they redesign the ultimate form. What I hate is that they don't mention this source of power at all. It just disappeared.

[Kamiccolo9]

What line? What version of the show?

Because, as Cetra pointed out, a later line pretty clearly says that Gohan can become a Super Saiyan.

First, notice how he keeps his green eyes when he powers up at 0:50. This is before Old Kai completes his ritual.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VnaqC8kd4

Next, again, the line: "All I have to do is become a super saiyan and believe."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQrK3UYlzr0

Before that, Old Kai tells him to do just that. Unfortunately, I can't find the full clip. According to that line, he is literally becoming a SSJ. Put two and two together, and it makes sense. As for Goku's question over whether they should be SSJs before fusing, I can't find the clip, but based on the logic above, Gohan becoming a SSJ does not mean he'd actually have blond hair and green eyes; he already IS a SSJ!

Based on the dub, they're one and the same. In Wrath of the Dragon and several video game openings, he's seen powering up to this form while everyone else goes SSJ too. So it's just really weird to think that he can tap into both, yet the form that does not change his appearance is stronger.

Me, personally, I would love it if he could tap into two separate sources of ki. It makes him unique, especially if they redesign the ultimate form. What I hate is that they don't mention this source of power at all. It just disappeared.

And none of that says that he has lost Super Saiyan.

Even the dub line flat out says that he has to do something else in addition to becoming a Super Saiyan to draw on the new power.

[fadeddreams5]

And none of that says that he has lost Super Saiyan.

Even the dub line flat out says that he has to do something else in addition to becoming a Super Saiyan to draw on the new power.

If the way he becomes mystic is by becoming a SSJ, how can he become a SSJ without going mystic? To tap into SSJ, he just has to stop believing? lol.

That actually makes sense. He stopped believing, so now he can't go mystic. xD

[Doctor.]

Watch Super be post-F and Gohan have his ultimate state again.

[TheGmGoken]

Watch Super be post-F and Gohan have his ultimate state again.

Maybe they wanted SSJ to look less special so they gave it to Gohan who looks extra nerdy(IMO COOL) in movie.

[Kamiccolo9]

And none of that says that he has lost Super Saiyan.

Even the dub line flat out says that he has to do something else in addition to becoming a Super Saiyan to draw on the new power.

If the way he becomes mystic is by becoming a SSJ, how can he become a SSJ without going mystic? To tap into SSJ, he just has to stop believing? lol.

That actually makes sense. He stopped believing, so now he can't go mystic. xD

The "believing" thing is dub bullshit.

The manga says that he has to do that "Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai." Super Saiyan + Kiai=Mystic. Super Saiyan without the added Kiai=just Super Saiyan.

It's that simple.

[TheGmGoken]

Kiai is a Japanese term used in martial arts for the short yell or shout uttered when performing an attacking move.

According to Wikipedia. Doesn't he shout when going Ssj? Would a kiai just be when he transforms? It used a lot in Marital arts movies. Possible Toriyama took inspiration?

[Kamiccolo9]

Kiai is a Japanese term used in martial arts for the short yell or shout uttered when performing an attacking move.

According to Wikipedia. Doesn't he shout when going Ssj? Would a kiai just be when he transforms? It used a lot in Marital arts movies. Possible Toriyama took inspiration?

Not every shout is a Kiai. And they don't have to shout when becoming a Super Saiyan.

[fadeddreams5]

The "believing" thing is dub bullshit.

The manga says that he has to do that "Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai." Super Saiyan + Kiai=Mystic. Super Saiyan without the added Kiai=just Super Saiyan.

It's that simple.

I thought we were talking about the dub version of the show. The translation in it pretty much states it and SSJ are one and the same, and there's that scene pretty much indicating that the SSJ state is being "erased" as the Old Kai reaches the end of the ritual. Anyone will assume he can't go SSJ after watching that.

By the way, how did viz translate that kiai scene? Same as Japanese version?

Watch Super be post-F and Gohan have his ultimate state again.

Eh. I just don't see it happening. Even in BoG, they had no intention of including it.

[Kamiccolo9]

The "believing" thing is dub bullshit.

The manga says that he has to do that "Super Saiyan thing and throw in a kiai." Super Saiyan + Kiai=Mystic. Super Saiyan without the added Kiai=just Super Saiyan.

It's that simple.

I thought we were talking about the dub version of the show. The translation in it pretty much states it and SSJ are one and the same, and there's that scene pretty much showing the SSJ state being "erased" as the Kai reaches the end of the ritual. Anyone will assume he can't go SSJ after watching that.

By the way, how did viz translate that kiai scene? Same as Japanese version?

No it doesn't, and I don't know what Viz says.

[TheGmGoken]

Kiai is a Japanese term used in martial arts for the short yell or shout uttered when performing an attacking move.

According to Wikipedia. Doesn't he shout when going Ssj? Would a kiai just be when he transforms? It used a lot in Marital arts movies. Possible Toriyama took inspiration?

Not every shout is a Kiai. And they don't have to shout when becoming a Super Saiyan.

In the manga don't they shout every time? I mean Toriyama loves Fighting movies and Kiai is a fighting term. Kinda suspicious but probably nothing to go crazy about.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kiai is a Japanese term used in martial arts for the short yell or shout uttered when performing an attacking move.

According to Wikipedia. Doesn't he shout when going Ssj? Would a kiai just be when he transforms? It used a lot in Marital arts movies. Possible Toriyama took inspiration?

Not every shout is a Kiai. And they don't have to shout when becoming a Super Saiyan.

In the manga don't they shout every time? I mean Toriyama loves Fighting movies and Kiai is a fighting term. Kinda suspicious but probably nothing to go crazy about.

No.

Goku doesn't shout when becoming a Super Saiyan for the second time in the Freeza fight, he doesn't when he demonstrates the forms to Buu, he doesn't when he jumps to Super Saiyan 3 against Buutenks, and those are just the ones I remember off the top of my head.

[fadeddreams5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTCdpR9Lkb4

Even the game says he has to become a SSJ.

The only thing that says this kiai stuff (which is done sometimes when they become SSJ too) is the original Japanese manga; I assume even viz wrote something else. People have a reason to think they're one and the same. No matter which way you look at it.

Hell, if I'm not mistaken, it was the Japanese fans that were vocal about SSJ Gohan before the release of BoG. That says a lot. >_>;