What if Nappa, Cooler, and Dabura became good?

[Berserker1921]

I know this is similar to my other post. But I want to know what are your theories if these three guys lived and survived through dbz? Would you he outcomes be much different? Would nappa become a SSj 3? Would cooler be as strong as his brother? And etc.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It's unknown if Dabura was ever really 'evil' to begin with, as he was under the control of Babidi the whole time, and when Buu was released he tried to warn Babidi that he was too powerful to be kept under control and stop him. Kaioshin was afraid of Dabura because he was strong, and he obviously had some evil inside him for Babidi to be able to control, but that's true of most people. For all we know, if Babidi had never taken control of him, Dabura might not even have been such a bad guy.

[Diotor]

I don't think Nappa would have got anywhere near SSj3. He was considerably older than any of the other Saiya-jins and would maybe have got above Zarbon and Dodoria before age started to degrade him.

Dabura was most likely some form of lawful/neutral evil character, which is why I think the thought of Buu would be abhorrent to him, as he represents uttter chaos. He'd most likely be more of a Piccolo Senior character, wanting to rule the world himself rather than destroy it. The Senshi would most likely beat him without too much effort, though he'd certainly be above Piccolo and the rest.

Cooler? Hard to say. I don't think he was as inherently bad as Frieza, but I don't ever seen him being a "good guy". Much like Dabura he'd rather be on top rather than saving stuff.

[rereboy]

It's unknown if Dabura was ever really 'evil' to begin with, as he was under the control of Babidi the whole time, and when Buu was released he tried to warn Babidi that he was too powerful to be kept under control and stop him. Kaioshin was afraid of Dabura because he was strong, and he obviously had some evil inside him for Babidi to be able to control, but that's true of most people. For all we know, if Babidi had never taken control of him, Dabura might not even have been such a bad guy.

Dabura was the ruler of the demon realm. Pretty safe bet he was evil.

[Scott]

Well, we got a glimpse of what good Dabura was like in the Anime.......i don't like good Dabura

[Hellspawn28]

I think Dabra and Coola are way too evil to become good. Nappa on the other hand, could end up becoming good. I think he would have lived with Vegeta and Bluma. Trunks and Bra could look up to him as a uncle. I think the Cyborg arc might turn out different if Nappa became good since Nappa would have fought Gero while Vegeta was fighting #19. If Nappa becomes a SSj then he would have killed Dr. Gero and #16-#18 would never be awaken. They would have destroyed Gero's lab and Cell would show up to find out that #17 & #18 are dead. Piccolo would have probably killed off Cell and the outcome for the rest of the series would have the Z fighters dead later on in the Buu saga or when Freeza gets wished back to life.

[Polyphase Avatron]

It's unknown if Dabura was ever really 'evil' to begin with, as he was under the control of Babidi the whole time, and when Buu was released he tried to warn Babidi that he was too powerful to be kept under control and stop him. Kaioshin was afraid of Dabura because he was strong, and he obviously had some evil inside him for Babidi to be able to control, but that's true of most people. For all we know, if Babidi had never taken control of him, Dabura might not even have been such a bad guy.

Dabura was the ruler of the demon realm. Pretty safe bet he was evil.

That was just his job. I mean if the demon realm exists, there has to be a purpose to its existence and someone needs to rule it. We never got any indication that he planned to invade other parts of the universe or anything.

[rereboy]

It's unknown if Dabura was ever really 'evil' to begin with, as he was under the control of Babidi the whole time, and when Buu was released he tried to warn Babidi that he was too powerful to be kept under control and stop him. Kaioshin was afraid of Dabura because he was strong, and he obviously had some evil inside him for Babidi to be able to control, but that's true of most people. For all we know, if Babidi had never taken control of him, Dabura might not even have been such a bad guy.

Dabura was the ruler of the demon realm. Pretty safe bet he was evil.

That was just his job. I mean if the demon realm exists, there has to be a purpose to its existence and someone needs to rule it. We never got any indication that he planned to invade other parts of the universe or anything.

That's really reaching. He's the lord of an evil realm. What you are saying is basically the same as saying that the ruler of "hell" isn't evil when there's absolutely no indication that he isn't evil.

[fadeddreams5]

Nappa- Definitely could be good. I can see him achieving the SSJ form very late in the series. But I don't think he's exactly talented enough to become much stronger. I'd see him more as a joke character than anything... like his abridged counterpart. His significance would quickly vanish, imo.

Cooler - If he was retconned and made canon into the main story, I can see him serving as an anti-hero. He'd be the sole heir of Frieza and Cold's throne, planets, and army. He seems more competent and methodical than them. I can almost see him being like Darkseid in a sense, and only clashing with Goku when their goals conflict. No way the movie version would become good though--he's too determined to avenge his clan.

Dabura - Isn't he almost the epitome of evil, being the king of the demon realm? I'm sure evil is good where he comes from. He only seemed caring because he was under mind control. The filler of him being good is hilarious, but alas, it is filler.

[Marco Polo]

I don't think Nappa would have got anywhere near SSj3. He was considerably older than any of the other Saiya-jins and would maybe have got above Zarbon and Dodoria before age started to degrade him.

Saiyans don't age the same way humans do. He would stay in fighting shape for a long time.

I think Nappa would really love the Ascended SSJ forms. I don't see him learning SSJ2 or above.

[Pantalones]

Wasn't Nappa already in his 50s? Assuming the Saiyan "age drop" happens in the 60s/70s (going by Goku and Vegeta running off for their one last epic battle when Vegeta was pushing into that range in the DBO timeline) then we'd definitely see Nappa start to grow weak from old age if he had stuck around... though probably not until very late. He could've still been an active fighter through the Freeza/Android/Cell portions of the series, at least, probably only dropping off in the Cell/Buu 7-year gap.

I'd actually kinda like to see Nappa stick around, partly just to see Super Saiyan Mustache but partly because he's a different sort of character from most of the main cast -- we don't really have a real "big dumb guy" type character in the ranks of the good guys, especially among active fighters, and he's got potential as both a goofy character and a fighter depending on the situation. Plus, his techniques are a little more unique than Vegeta's -- the "blow up everything around him by swiping his hands up" thing and mouth blasts, rather than just generic small blasts and endless variations of the same "big full-power beam" sort of move in different colors and with different hand movements. And the way he fights so much better when calm but screws up a lot when he's pissed off and loses control would be kinda interesting to see in different situations -- sort of like the opposite of Gohan's "true power only comes out when he's really pissed" thing, interestingly. I figure if Vegeta could "soften up" a bit and become a good guy over the years, Nappa could too, and the only real change story-wise that would need to happen is Vegeta letting him just lay there on the ground rather than killing him after he'd lost to Goku.

Speaking of the ascended Super Saiyan forms... I wonder if Nappa's naturally bigger, bulkier frame would make those forms more effective for him than for the smaller Saiyans we see using them in the series. I mean, Broly is enormous even in his base form (especially in terms of height) and he certainly doesn't slow down when he goes into his (even more enormous) bulked-up form... would be pretty interesting if only a huge Saiyan can use that super-bulked-up sort of Super Saiyan form without slowing down much. That would also give Nappa a good reason not to aim for SSj2, aside from just not really seeming like as much of a hardcore training type as Goku and Vegeta to begin with -- if the bulked-up form doesn't have such a downside for him, he'd probably figure he didn't need anything better once he reached that level (...and then the look on his face when, seven years later, he finds out that there's a Super Saiyan 3 that he missed out on as a result... XD)

[Polyphase Avatron]

That's really reaching. He's the lord of an evil realm. What you are saying is basically the same as saying that the ruler of "hell" isn't evil when there's absolutely no indication that he isn't evil.

I don't see any real indication that he is evil either, aside from being able to be controlled by Babidi (which, again, is true of most people, only the most pure of heart are immune).

The fact is that we never saw what he was like in his natural, non-Majin state. And even in that state he tried to stop Buu because he realized he was dangerous.

Piccolo was called the demon king yet he stopped being evil, and there was Spike the devil man who was a demon and just worked for Baba and never really actively did anything evil.

[rereboy]

I don't see any real indication that he is evil either, aside from being able to be controlled by Babidi (which, again, is true of most people, only the most pure of heart are immune).

No indicators that he is evil?

First off, he was controlled by Badidi, so, right from the start, we know that he has evil in him.

Second, he is apparently a demon, which, as we know, is something plenty evil (especially considering that Piccolo lost his demon status once he became less evil).

Third, he is not just a demon, he is the demon lord, ruler of the demon realm, which, for all intents and purposes, seems to be a kind of "hell", which even the Daizenshuu describes as a place of evil life forms.

Fourth, even his design is very demon-like or devil-like.

That's not indicators that he is evil...?

And as for him not being evil, which indicators are there? Zero.

[supercat]

For some reason I have a hard time visualizing Nappa joining the Z-Fighters. While the guy may have shown subtle hints of compassion, I feel he excessively enjoyed the concept of destruction itself. Vegeta may have been ruthless to the point of demolishing innocent lives, but he only seemed to do so for the purpose of accomplishing a specific goal (conquering planets, looking for the Dragon Balls), and/or to prove a point. Nappa's reason for taking lives seemed to be primarily fueled by his desire to cause pain and unwarranted destruction. Although to a far lesser extent, the brutish Saiyan is somewhat akin to Buu when it comes to their obsession for watching things get destroyed. Even if he were somehow forced to join the Z-Fighters, I feel he would have stirred up trouble by creating unnecessary casualties.

We don't get a sufficient amount of insight on Cooler's persona to accurately gauge the full extent of evil within him. My takeaway on his personality is that he was one step ahead of Frieza in many regards. The eldest son of Cold is initially seen disgusted by his brother's excessive levels of gloat and carelessness. While it's not likely the cold warrior is completely free of self absorbed tendencies himself, we can somewhat be assured that he wouldn't waste time obsessing over himself to extent that his brother does. Because Cooler also seems to acknowledge the power of his enemies, he seems less likely to unexpectedly fall victim to an underestimated foe. The only way I could see him actually transitioning into a more heroic role is, if he takes a beating from his brother, and realizes the only way to get revenge is to side with the Z-Fighters. Even then, I think he would be completely unconcerned about the fate of the others, and would simply be driven by the one-track goal of putting his brother back in his place.

When in the face of a greater threat, I could honestly see Dabura understanding the concept of honor and justice to a certain degree. If he had somehow survived his little scuffle with Buu, I could see him reluctantly siding with the Z-Fighters. My guess is that his overall display of character would be very similar to Piccolo's during the Saiyan arc. While his demeanor to the team would be cold and uncaring, I think he would put in the effort to provide the heroes with as much insight as possible, by really leveraging his calculated side. Without the presence of a stronger enemy, I find it extremely unlikely that he would do anything even remotely akin to siding with the Z-Fighthers. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he himself tried to fit into the role of the primary villain, with the absence of Buu or any other menace that could steal that glory from him.

[Diotor]

Plus, his techniques are a little more unique than Vegeta's -- the "blow up everything around him by swiping his hands up

I think that was just named Bakahatsu and it was an attack I always liked. Creativity with ki attacks isn't always done in DBZ that well.

[singsing]

I don't see any real indication that he is evil either, aside from being able to be controlled by Babidi (which, again, is true of most people, only the most pure of heart are immune).

No indicators that he is evil?

First off, he was controlled by Badidi, so, right from the start, we know that he has evil in him.

Second, he is apparently a demon, which, as we know, is something plenty evil (especially considering that Piccolo lost his demon status once he became less evil).

Third, he is not just a demon, he is the demon lord, ruler of the demon realm, which, for all intents and purposes, seems to be a kind of "hell", which even the Daizenshuu describes as a place of evil life forms.

Fourth, even his design is very demon-like or devil-like.

That's not indicators that he is evil...?

And as for him not being evil, which indicators are there? Zero.

Almost everyone has evil in them in DBZ, that doesn't prove anything. Being pure is an extremely rare trait to have. You'd easily be affected by the devilmite beam/Babidi's mind control, guess that means you're pure evil now and have no choice but to do evil things.

[rereboy]

Almost everyone has evil in them in DBZ, that doesn't prove anything. Being pure is an extremely rare trait to have. You'd easily be affected by the devilmite beam/Babidi's mind control, guess that means you're pure evil now and have no choice but to do evil things.

You might be right... if that was the only indicator that he is evil. As you see in my post, that's hardly the only thing. And even if it was just that, it would still be a possible indicator, while no possible indicator for him to not being evil exists in the manga.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Almost everyone has evil in them in DBZ, that doesn't prove anything. Being pure is an extremely rare trait to have. You'd easily be affected by the devilmite beam/Babidi's mind control, guess that means you're pure evil now and have no choice but to do evil things.

You might be right... if that was the only indicator that he is evil. As you see in my post, that's hardly the only thing. And even if it was just that, it would still be a possible indicator, while no possible indicator for him to not being evil exists in the manga.

The fact that all of the evil things we saw him do were while he was under Babidi's control, and the fact that he tried to stop Buu don't count?

[rereboy]

Almost everyone has evil in them in DBZ, that doesn't prove anything. Being pure is an extremely rare trait to have. You'd easily be affected by the devilmite beam/Babidi's mind control, guess that means you're pure evil now and have no choice but to do evil things.

You might be right... if that was the only indicator that he is evil. As you see in my post, that's hardly the only thing. And even if it was just that, it would still be a possible indicator, while no possible indicator for him to not being evil exists in the manga.

The fact that all of the evil things we saw him do were while he was under Babidi's control, and the fact that he tried to stop Buu don't count?

Both of those are meaningless.

Doing very evil things while in Babidi's control doesn't mean that he is really evil or that he's not really evil, since he can have evil in him and only be doing such bad stuff due to the mind control, or he can be really evil and the evil things he does while in mind control aren't much different from what he would do otherwise. Without seeing how he was before, there's no possible conclusion to be drawn from this at all, and it doesn't indicate us at all which possibility might be more likely, and so it can't be considered an indicator of anything.

The same way, him trying to stop Buu also doesn't mean anything since he was trying to stop Buu because he noticed that Buu posed a danger for his master, Babidi. He noticed that it was likely that Buu would turn on him, like he did, so he decided to stop Buu. As such, he acted purely out of loyalty to Babidi, due to his mind control, which has nothing to do with how evil he was before his mind control, and so, that doesn't indicate to us which possibility is more likely at all.

[Captain Sauza]

I see Nappa getting killed by Cell at some point if Vegeta spared him in the Saiyan Saga.

Dabura might take the same role to Goten and Trunks that Piccolo took with Gohan early on in the series. He doesn't seem the type that could get that much stronger through training, but being around Cell in strength he'd be a good mentor for the kids.

If Cooler became good, then he'd enter the Hyperbolic Time Chamber in preparation for the Cell Games, discover the Golden Cooler form but be much stronger than Freeza is in Revival of F because 1 year of training > 4 months of training, then he effortlessly defeats Cell and turns on all the Z fighters, slaughtering them all (or perhaps offers some the chance to work for him) before blowing up the planet.