Characters getting power ups in Super

[Lord Beerus]

I want Uub to get some God-like/Ultimate Evolution-esque power-up so bad. He is Kid Buu's reincarnation, he should be able to display a similar potential like Freeza did in the last movie, or even greater. I want him to be on par with SSJGSSJ Goku at least as he was worthy for Goku's attention.

Yeah see, Oob did get an immense and awesome power up in GT and became Majoob. But GT colossally wasted that. Which makes me a little weary of how power ups would be handled to other characters in the cast in Dragon Ball Super, if there are planned to be more power ups or transformations.

I honestly don't want anymore power ups or transformations of any kind in Dragon Ball Super; unless it's for the human cast, because they so desperately need it.

You do know, this is Dragonball right? Power ups are tantamount to character progression in Shonen, and Toriyama more or less wrote the book on it.

For half of the series, transformations were never a big part of the story.

Exactly. Transformation or power-ups really only became something of significance in the Freeza arc and by that point Dragon Ball was beyond the halfway point of the story.

[Low Tone G]

I want Uub to get some God-like/Ultimate Evolution-esque power-up so bad. He is Kid Buu's reincarnation, he should be able to display a similar potential like Freeza did in the last movie, or even greater. I want him to be on par with SSJGSSJ Goku at least as he was worthy for Goku's attention.

Yeah see, Oob did get an immense and awesome power up in GT and became Majoob. But GT colossally wasted that. Which makes me a little weary of how power ups would be handled to other characters in the cast in Dragon Ball Super, if there are planned to be more power ups or transformations.

I definitely want Uub to be worthy for something in Super. He was, I think, the most wasted character in GT. Now having an example of what a former villain can do if he tries to train himself, I'd like to see what a new ally can become, having the potential of the most powerful villain before Beerus(if he can be counted as a villain).

[Blade]

I honestly don't want anymore power ups or transformations of any kind in Dragon Ball Super; unless it's for the human cast, because they so desperately need it.

You do know, this is Dragonball right? Power ups are tantamount to character progression in Shonen, and Toriyama more or less wrote the book on it.

For half of the series, transformations were never a big part of the story.

No, but power ups were. They always have been, and essentially that's all that a transformation is.

[Doctor.]

There's a difference. A transformation is most commonly associated with something that changes your design. Not wanting a power-up in Dragon Ball is basically asking for characters not to get stronger.

[SansrivaaL]

A dragon ball anime without power ups isnt dragon ball.

[Lord Beerus]

A dragon ball anime without power ups isnt dragon ball.

So everything that happened prior to the Saiyan arc is now negated as not being Dragon Ball?

[Doctor.]

Goku had a power-up in the Daimao arc. He had a power-up in every arc. A power-up is just increasing his power a lot, that happens in all battle Shounen and Dragon Ball has been having those since the start.

Transformations are what we're starting to abuse.

[Blade]

Goku had a power-up in the Daimao arc. He had a power-up in every arc. A power-up is just increasing his power a lot, that happens in all battle Shounen and Dragon Ball has been having those since the start.

Transformations are what we're starting to abuse.

A transformation is just the visual affirmation of a power up. The aesthetic function of a power up is to accent the change in character strength, which in turn is the narrative function of a power increase. They're two sides of the same coin.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku had a power-up in the Daimao arc. He had a power-up in every arc. A power-up is just increasing his power a lot, that happens in all battle Shounen and Dragon Ball has been having those since the start.

Oh, yeah. I forgot that Goku drank the Ultra Divine Water before taking on King Piccolo. But prior to that there were no real power ups in the series. Just people getting stronger through training.

Transformations are what we're starting to abuse.

I agree with this 100%. Transformations have become more of crutch rather than a healthy addition to the series. Any character that doesn't have a transformation of some sort pretty much becomes a forgotten character. That's why I love Beerus and Whis so damn much. They doesn't need any gimmicks like power ups or transformations to become strong. They're just unbelievably strong and pretty much untouchable from the get go. And I thank Toriyama an immense amount for keeping it that way. If this were up to Toei, SSJGSSJ would have eclipsed the power of Beerus and Whis.

[Basaku]

Transformations and new characters/villains are primary driving force behind merch sales #s. Kai is living proof of that and big lesson for Toei. Great ratings, weak merch sales. Same designs that's been flooding the market for 20 years. It's the main reason we got BOG with new form and characters, ROF with yet another new form which wasn't necessary at all right after BOG and the same will happen in Super

[jcogginsa]

A dragon ball anime without power ups isnt dragon ball.

So everything that happened prior to the Saiyan arc is now negated as not being Dragon Ball?

*clears throat*

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[Lord Beerus]

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A transformation that was never genuinely used in combat until the Saiyan arc.

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Not a power up in any way. He just grew extra arms to throw more punches. That's it.

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A change in size that ultimately proved no difference. Goku still kicked Piccolo's ass while in his giant form. He didn't become any stronger. Just much, much, much taller, and he could also hit harder.

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King Piccolo simply become younger. Again, not a real transformation. Just a regression in age.

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That actually is a power up. So I'll give you that.

[jcogginsa]

That actually is a power up. So I'll give you that.

King Piccolo getting Younger is a power up in the same way Cell's Perfect form is a power up. And Oozaru was used in combat during the 21st budokai.

Giant Form and 4 arms are transformations, which is close enough to a power up

[Lord Beerus]

King Piccolo getting Younger is a power up in the same way Cell's Perfect form is a power up.

King Piccolo getting younger is not a power in any way. He just regressed to physical peak of his body during his youth. That is in no way similar to how Cell became perfect.

And Oozaru was used in combat during the 21st budokai.

Goku looked at the moon accidently and became an Oozaru. He didn't do it intentionally.

Giant Form and 4 arms are transformations, which is close enough to a power up

That is not how it works at all. Transformations =/= Power Ups. E.g. Piccolo Jr transformed into a Giant Namek against Goku at the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament. Goku notes his power didn't increase at all.

[jcogginsa]

King Piccolo getting Younger is a power up in the same way Cell's Perfect form is a power up. And Oozaru was used in combat during the 21st budokai.

King Piccolo getting younger is not a power in any way. He just regressed to physical peak of his body during his youth. That is in no way similar to how Cell became perfect. Goku looked at the moon accidently and became an Oozaru. He didn't do it intentionally.

Giant Form and 4 arms are transformations, which is close enough to a power up

That is not how it works at all. Transformations =/= Power Ups. E.g. Piccolo Jr transformed into a Giant Namek against Goku at the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament. Goku notes his power didn't increase at all.

1. It increased his power. That makes it a power up.
2. So? Power ups don't have to be intentional
3. The premise is still the same.

[Lord Beerus]

1. It increased his power. That makes it a power up.
2. So? Power ups don't have to be intentional
3. The premise is still the same.

1. No, it doesn't. By that logic, if Gohan from the Majin Boo arc wished to become his 9 year old self from the Cell Games again, where he was much stronger, that would mean he also got a power up. That doesn't make sense, at all.
2. All power ups in Dragon Ball have some form of intention from the user. They just don't happen innately.
3. No, it's not. If there is no increase in their power, then it is not a power up. End of story.

I'm ending this conversation now. Because this is getting way off topic.

[jcogginsa]

1. It increased his power. That makes it a power up.
2. So? Power ups don't have to be intentional
3. The premise is still the same.

1. No, it doesn't. By that logic, if Gohan from the Majin Boo arc wished to become his 9 year old self from the Cell Games again, where he was much stronger, that would mean he also got a power up. That doesn't make sense, at all.
2. All power ups in Dragon Ball have some form of intention from the user. They just don't happen innately.
3. No, it's not. If there is no increase in their power, then it is not a power up. End of story.

I'm ending this conversation now. Because this is getting way off topic.

1. If it makes him stronger, than yeah it's a power up.
2. I'd say Oozaru itself disproves that statement, but that would be circular logic so there's no point. The first time Goku transformed into Super Saiyan, there was no intent. It just happened. Later transformations do have intent. The same is true of Oozaru
3. Most people use the terms interchangeably. While it's true that some power ups are not transformations and some transformations are not power ups, for the most part they go hand in hand.

Besides, my original point was that the Dragonball section of the story did have power ups. Full Power Roshi is undisputably a power up. Oozaru is also a power up

[h0kuten]

I think the human cast alongside Piccolo + Ultimate Gohan + Gotenks can still have relevancy without getting a larger power up. Sort of like how they did in Fukkatsu no F.

[fadeddreams5]

I think the human cast alongside Piccolo + Ultimate Gohan + Gotenks can still have relevancy without getting a larger power up. Sort of like how they did in Fukkatsu no F.

Besides Bulma and Jaco, they weren't relevant at all in F. Frieza himself states that Gohan could have taken down all the mooks himself if he wanted to.

It was all contrived for the sake of making a cool action sequence.

[Thanos]

Totally up for Piccolo, Krillin, Tenshinhan and Yamcha to get a huge boost in power(how about actually giving the characters that need Kaioken

I agree with pretty much everyone but Kuririn (and Yamcha, I guess). I dunno... for some reason I never really bought his power boosts and felt like they seemed kinda forced just because he's Goku's best friend. It still annoys me that he's technically stronger than Tenshinhan.