Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Anywho, for people who dabble in pre-Z Battle Powers, can you show me your 21st TB gaps? This is what I currently have:

Spoiler:

Son Goku
~ full power (without tail) - 75
~ full power (with tail) - 100
~ Great Ape - 1,000

Kuririn
~ full power - 72

Yamcha
~ full power - 45

Jackie Chun
~ full power - 100
~ buff - 250

Orinji Temple Bullies
~ full power - 22.5

Bacterian
~ full power - 36

Ran Fuan
~ full power - 62.5

Giran
~ full power - 60

Namu
~ full power - 93.75

Sure, this is my list:

Spoiler:

Goku: 24
- Oozaru: 240 (probably lower since he was already very tired)

Jackie Chun: 24
-- Powered-up: 40

Namu: 20

Kuririn: 20

Yamcha: 10

Giran: 13
Ranfan: 6,5
Bacterian: 6

[ZombieVito]

Where do you guys have the following fighters:

Future 17:
Future 18:
Future SSJ Gohan (one arm):
Future SSJ Vegeta:
Future SSJ Gohan:
Future SSJ Trunks (Mecha arc):
Future Piccolo:

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Future #17: 500
Future #18: 500

Future SS Gohan (one arm): 190
Future SS Gohan: 140
Future SS Trunks (Mecha arc): 210

I don't think Vegeta became a Super Saiyan in the future, and Future Piccolo is pure speculation, so I don't bother assigning them numbers.

[RandomGuy96]

Future #17: 500
Future #18: 500

Future SS Gohan (one arm): 190

Doesn't work. Future Gohan was confident he could defeat the androids, when he was under the impression that they were about half as powerful as they actually were. By your numbers, "not even half" of future 17's power would still be enough to curb-stomp him, to say nothing of him + 18.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Doesn't work. Future Gohan was confident he could defeat the androids, when he was under the impression that they were about half as powerful as they actually were. By your numbers, "not even half" of future 17's power would still be enough to curb-stomp him, to say nothing of him + 18.

I go by #17 being at 35% power, since he said less than half, but not less than 2/3rd, so I have him at 175 when at 35%.

[RandomGuy96]

Doesn't work. Future Gohan was confident he could defeat the androids, when he was under the impression that they were about half as powerful as they actually were. By your numbers, "not even half" of future 17's power would still be enough to curb-stomp him, to say nothing of him + 18.

I go by #17 being at 35% power, since he said less than half, but not less than 2/3rd, so I have him at 175 when at 35%.

Seems like an excuse to inflate the numbers. If he was using a third of his power, he would have said a third, not "less than half". The whole point was to brag. Gohan should be at least half as strong as future 17, likely more since he felt confident in taking on both him and 18 at the same time.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

But 35% isn't a third... that's why I used that instead of 33% or anything lower... It's not an excuse to inflate numbers, more so space out people like SS Goku (sick) / initial #19/20 etc... Regardless of what % #17 uses against Gohan, I'm wouldn't change my Android arc numbers, they come out very neat. Having #17 at 35% instead of 40% just lowers Trunks, Yardrat Goku, and one-armed Gohan for me, not raise anyone.

[RandomGuy96]

But 35% isn't a third... that's why I used that instead of 33% or anything lower... It's not an excuse to inflate numbers, more so space out people like SS Goku (sick) / initial #19/20 etc... Regardless of what % #17 uses against Gohan, I'm wouldn't change my Android arc numbers, they come out very neat. Having #17 at 35% instead of 40% just lowers Trunks, Yardrat Goku, and one-armed Gohan for me, not raise anyone.

35% is functionally a third. If he is bragging, it wouldn't make any sense for him not to say "I used about a third" rather than "I used less than half"; logically, "less than half" should be closer to a half than a third. There doesn't need to be any spacing between those characters, as the gaps aren't huge. Post-absorption 19 being in Vegeta's league yet not dimensions above SS Trunks, SS Trunks being initially mistaken for SS Goku, and SS future Gohan being weaker than initial SS Trunks yet more than half as strong as future 17, all point towards this.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

35% is functionally a third. If he is bragging, it wouldn't make any sense for him not to say "I used about a third" rather than "I used less than half"; logically, "less than half" should be closer to a half than a third. There doesn't need to be any spacing between those characters, as the gaps aren't huge. Post-absorption 19 being in Vegeta's league yet not dimensions above SS Trunks, SS Trunks being initially mistaken for SS Goku, and SS future Gohan being weaker than initial SS Trunks yet more than half as strong as future 17, all point towards this.

100 / 3 = 33.33 =/= 35. Regardless of how close it is, it's not a perfect third or less. The only thing contradicting this is your arbitrary rule that #17 has to say what you say otherwise I'm wrong...

Post-absorption #19 being in Vegeta's league is very debatable. Despite being unable to tank Android #19, SS Vegeta was still able to throw him around like a rag doll with ease, and never once looked to be in fear for his victory.

Android #20 is clearly weaker than Piccolo, yet should be stronger than #19, since Gero was considered possible as one of the Androids strong enough to humiliate Trunks, while #19 wasn't. And this is after Piccolo had seen both the Androids' movements.

SS Vegeta > Piccolo > #20 > #19

I wouldn't classify that as "in the same league".

Regardless, I still think both of the Androids should be above Trunks post-absorptions since Vegeta only said they're not as bad as made out to be instead of completely dismissing Trunks' word as nonsense.

[Kaboom]

Is there REALLY a need to argue about what does or doesn't constitute "less than half?" It means below 50%, period. Anything more specific is preference and/or nitpicking.

If a waiter puts a glass down in front of you and it's only 35% filled, are you going to sit there and measure it so you can be precise when you complain about it? No, you're going to say, "hey, dude, you didn't even fill my glass up halfway."

Anyhoo.

Where do you guys have the following fighters...

I didn't have numbers for a few of these but I guess I'll whip up something for them. The ones I already had are in bold.


Future #17: 280,000,000 (Moderately weaker than his fresh-from-the-tube past self, as pointed out.)
Future #18: 260,000,000 (Ditto.)

Future SS Gohan (one arm): 160,000,000 (A decent amount stronger than half of 17's power.)
Future SS Vegeta: 120,000,000+ ...? (If he even ever became a Super Saiyan, then he'd at least be 50x stronger than where I think he maxed out against Freeza.)
Future SS Gohan: 110,000,000 (Somewhere weaker than half of 17's power. He probably put up a good fight last time if he thinks he has an idea of 17's power now.)
Future SS Trunks (Vs Cyborg Freeza): 180,000,000 (Li'l bit stronger than SS Gohan, able to beat Freeza pretty easily.)
Future Piccolo: 50,000,000+ ...? (Total random guess.)

[Saiga]

So, here's a sort of hypothetical question I have: going off a minimalist approach, what numbers would you give SS3 Goku, Evil Boo, SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan based only on Goku's refusal to fight Boo and the fights SS3 Gotenks vs Boo, Evil Boo vs Gohan and Bootenks vs Gohan.

I ask only to focus on those because I'm just more interested in what people think the minimum would be to replicate the feats, not how strong those characters actually are.

[dbgtFO]

So, here's a sort of hypothetical question I have: going off a minimalist approach, what numbers would you give SS3 Goku, Evil Boo, SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan based only on Goku's refusal to fight Boo and the fights SS3 Gotenks vs Boo, Evil Boo vs Gohan and Bootenks vs Gohan.

I ask only to focus on those because I'm just more interested in what people think the minimum would be to replicate the feats, not how strong those characters actually are.

SS3 Goku: 24,000,000,000.
Super Buu: 40,000,000,000.
Super Gotenks: 48,000,000,000.
Ultimate Gohan: 60,000,000,000.

That's what I end up, when I disregard official multipliers and just put the characters, where I think they should be at.
Bonus:

Spoiler:

Gotenks: 5,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 10,000,000,000.
Gotenks(post RoSaT): 12,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 24,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 36,000,000,000.

[Hugo Boss]

So, here's a sort of hypothetical question I have: going off a minimalist approach, what numbers would you give SS3 Goku, Evil Boo, SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan based only on Goku's refusal to fight Boo and the fights SS3 Gotenks vs Boo, Evil Boo vs Gohan and Bootenks vs Gohan.

I ask only to focus on those because I'm just more interested in what people think the minimum would be to replicate the feats, not how strong those characters actually are.

I don't like inflated gaps, so I will try to be the most minimalistic possible.

• SS3 Goku - 8
• Evil Boo - 9
• SS3 Gotenks - 10
• Gohan - 11

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

So, here's a sort of hypothetical question I have: going off a minimalist approach, what numbers would you give SS3 Goku, Evil Boo, SS3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan based only on Goku's refusal to fight Boo and the fights SS3 Gotenks vs Boo, Evil Boo vs Gohan and Bootenks vs Gohan.

I ask only to focus on those because I'm just more interested in what people think the minimum would be to replicate the feats, not how strong those characters actually are.

Does this include following power statements? Or are you asking the smallest possible gap to have between Goku and Evil Boo for the former to want to have nothing to do with the latter? If so:

Spoiler:

SS3 Goku: 12.5

Evil Boo: 15

SS3 Gotenks: 18

Ultimate Gohan: 20

Gotenks-Boo: 33
Gohan-Boo: 35

But if it includes following power statements:

Spoiler:

SS3 Goku: 12
SS Gotenks pre: 12.5
SS Gotenks post: 15

Evil Boo: 50

SS3 Gotenks: 60

Ultimate Gohan: 70

Gotenks-Boo: 110

Gohan-Boo: 120

[supercat]

Where do you guys have the following fighters:

Future 17:
Future 18:
Future SSJ Gohan (one arm):
Future SSJ Vegeta:
Future SSJ Gohan:
Future SSJ Trunks (Mecha arc):
Future Piccolo:

Without going into the debate of whether the future androids were suppressing their full power or if they were actually weaker, the end result here is that the battle powers they displayed were weaker than their present counterparts. With that said, I have the following:

Future 17: 260,000,000
Future 18: 250,000,000
Future SSJ Gohan (one arm): 165,000,000
Future SSJ Vegeta: 140,000,000 (low end) - 160,000,000 (high end)
Future SSJ Gohan: 120,000,000
Future SSJ Trunks: 175,000,000
Future Piccolo: 60,000,000

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Sooooo.... back to the Ginyus... anyone else think 36,000 is ideal for them?

After re-reading the fight, Vegeta was actually doing a lot of damage to Reacoom, or at least more than I initially remembered. I have Vegeta at 29,600, so Reacoom being around 36,000 can work in my opinion, it's comparable to the Vegeta / Monster Zarbon gap.

Thoughts?

[miguelnuva1]

Sooooo.... back to the Ginyus... anyone else think 36,000 is ideal for them?

After re-reading the fight, Vegeta was actually doing a lot of damage to Reacoom, or at least more than I initially remembered. I have Vegeta at 29,600, so Reacoom being around 36,000 can work in my opinion, it's comparable to the Vegeta / Monster Zarbon gap.

Thoughts?

Vegeta was stated 30,000 wasn't he?

[Kaboom]

Vegeta was stated 30,000 wasn't he?

"Almost" 30,000, but like many others it's usually rounded in lieu of a specific number.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Chapter: 275 (DBZ 81), P4.2
Context: Vegeta powers up to fight Recoom.
Jheese: "Hey, hey, Vegeta's battle power has risen up close to 30,000!"

[supercat]

At their best, I'd say Jeice, Burter, and Recoome are each at around 40,000.

For some reason, I feel like they're each individually below Nail.