Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Where do you guys expect Champa to fall in amongst the God Tiers? I'm assuming that he'll be the antagonist of the Universe 6 arc so he'll be stronger than Golden Freeza but I think they'll keep him below Beerus.

He gave off the vibe of being weaker than Beerus from the trailer, and from his overall design too.

Beerus: 10
Champa: 8.5
Golden Freeza: 8
SSGSS: 7.5

Something like that.

[Chiki]

When being compared to Beerus, even the unfathomable power of Vegetto was basically considered trivial. While we don't know the exact difference in power between Vegetto and SSJ4 Goku, we do have some implication that the gap between the two is likely not substantial.

Going off of that and also going off of how SSG Goku was actually able to hold his own against Beerus, I'd say the former is far superior to Vegetto, whose power in comparison to the destructive feline's was likely insignificant. This leads me to also believe that SSG / SSGSS Goku is probably not that far below Omega Shenron, the most powerful enemy his GT counterpart has faced.

Whis > SSJ4 Gogeta > Beerus > Omega Shenron > / = Golden Freeza > SSGSS Goku / Vegeta >/= SSG Goku > / = Super 17 (energy absorbed) > > SSJ4 > SSJ Vegetto

I wouldn't say it was considered trivial. Saying "even if we fused it wouldn't be enough" doesn't mean that Vegito's power is trivial against Bills's power. For all we know, Vegito could give him a good fight.

We know full power SSJ Vegeta who is >>>> Ultimate Gohan (rusty most likely), SSJ3 Goku, SSJ Gotenks etc. can draw blood from Bills as seen in BoG.

This means that people who aren't Gods CAN harm Gods, and that the gap in power isn't as great as one would think.

We know for certain, Whis > Bills > Golden Frieza > SSGSS Goku & Vegeta > SSG Goku > Raging SSJ Vegeta > SSJ3 Goku

I'm pretty sure the fusion boost given by Potara earrings is well above the 10x boost to SSJ3 given by SSJ4. SSJ3 Goku (Base Goku gets a 400x boost from going SSJ3 iirc) is way way way way way way way below SSJ Vegito (who gets a 50x boost above Base Vegito). Assuming SSJ3 Goku and SSJ Vegito are equals (this is the minimum I'm considering), SSJ Vegito is 400x more powerful than Base Goku, so Base Vegito is 8 times more powerful than Base Goku. We can see that Base Vegito's boost over Base Goku is FAR above 10x, since SSJ Vegito >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Goku. So, SSJ3 Vegito >>>>>> SSJ4 Goku.

Goku said Vegito at his full power wouldn't be enough to beat Bills. I'm pretty sure Vegito can go SSJ3 since Gotenks of all people can, and one half of Vegito can go SSJ3. So Bills >>> SSJ3 Vegito (but it's hard to say how well raging SSJ3 Vegito, like SSJ Vegeta, would do).

We surpassed GT levels a long time ago, guys.

SSJ3 Vegito could go anywhere as long as it's below Bills and above Raging SSJ Vegeta. We can't say for certain where he would be though.

[Sora Saiyan]

Where do you guys expect Champa to fall in amongst the God Tiers? I'm assuming that he'll be the antagonist of the Universe 6 arc so he'll be stronger than Golden Freeza but I think they'll keep him below Beerus.

I believe all the characters will train, so by the time Champa comes around we might be looking at the characters being twice as strong.
I'd like it like this.
Whis 25-30
Beerus 20+
Goku 18+
Vegeta 18+
Champa 20+
The characters would need to train for a while to hit this level, though.

[godku23]

I would put a SSJ2 Vegetto at or just below enraged Vegeta, and SSJ3 some where above.

[shinmaru]

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

[Bullza]

It does seem strangely out of place. Goku trained in 100G back in the Namek saga. Vegeta said he could handle three times that much in the Trunks saga which seemed appropriate.

But then in the Buu saga he's using Super Saiyan and working up a sweat in just 150G. Now he still seems to be using 150G which at least fits with the Buu saga except now he wasn't using Super Saiyan.

Seems like it should be 500G or something.

[ZombieVito]

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

Wasn't that filler?

[dbzfan7]

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

Wasn't that filler?

Everything beyond 300 is filler, such as 400 and 450G's. Though I don't think in the past he had a shit ton of lasers fire at him. I think he just moved around.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Even x300 isn't technically confirmed as far as I can recall. Vegeta says he wants a chamber that goes that high, but I can't remember anything that actually says he used it at that.

[emperior]

I think gravity training has more to do with the body than with the power level.
And maybe Vegeta is using 150G but doing a more intense training, and it is possible he was just warming up.

[dbzfan7]

Even x300 isn't technically confirmed as far as I can recall. Vegeta says he wants a chamber that goes that high, but I can't remember anything that actually says he used it at that.

I don't believe there is any real reason to think he didn't use it at that level. Vegeta says he wants 300G's, and we're never told he didn't train under that level. Why bother have him saying he wanted that kind of training, and then never mention he didn't actually train under 300G's if he changed his mind or couldn't do it?

[Chiki]

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

Goku's training in 10g right now (King Kai's planet) and it works out for him. I guess Saiyans don't always see the need to force themselves to the limit.

Can you guys imagine how powerful SSGSS Vegito would be? He'd eat Whis alive.

[Blade]

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

I don't think it's totally unreasonable - after all, he literally walked into the chamber and dialed straight up to 150 times Earth's gravity without so much as a warm up or second of preparation.

When we have previously seen people train in high gravity, they tend to work their way up to successively higher levels gradually as opposed to diving straight into it. Furthermore, in the Buu arc, we saw Vegeta undertaking gravity training in his Super Saiyan form and still working up a sweat, which when you consider the fact that his normal state is many times weaker, I don't it's unreasonable at all to see him get a little flustered by moving around so energetically in such harsh conditions.

Also, I mean, heck, if Goku likes to train on Kaio's planet for the mere increase of 10 times Earth's gravity, then why would 150 times that be an insufficient level to train at?

[shinmaru]

It does seem strangely out of place. Goku trained in 100G back in the Namek saga. Vegeta said he could handle three times that much in the Trunks saga which seemed appropriate.

But then in the Buu saga he's using Super Saiyan and working up a sweat in just 150G. Now he still seems to be using 150G which at least fits with the Buu saga except now he wasn't using Super Saiyan.

Seems like it should be 500G or something.

He did train 150G SSj in Buu arc. But Trunks is training alongside of him. Trunks could barely walk in 150G without SSJ

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

I don't think it's totally unreasonable - after all, he literally walked into the chamber and dialed straight up to 150 times Earth's gravity without so much as a warm up or second of preparation.

When we have previously seen people train in high gravity, they tend to work their way up to successively higher levels gradually as opposed to diving straight into it. Furthermore, in the Buu arc, we saw Vegeta undertaking gravity training in his Super Saiyan form and still working up a sweat, which when you consider the fact that his normal state is many times weaker, I don't it's unreasonable at all to see him get a little flustered by moving around so energetically in such harsh conditions.

Also, I mean, heck, if Goku likes to train on Kaio's planet for the mere increase of 10 times Earth's gravity, then why would 150 times that be an insufficient level to train at?

Goku can take it easy with his training because he doesn't need to surpass anyone. He already is the strongest in the universe, and much stronger than Bejita.
150G isn't insufficient level to train. but it is for someone who always trains 150G and is trying to surpass Goku that already has a big power gap between them.

[Blade]

It does seem strangely out of place. Goku trained in 100G back in the Namek saga. Vegeta said he could handle three times that much in the Trunks saga which seemed appropriate.

But then in the Buu saga he's using Super Saiyan and working up a sweat in just 150G. Now he still seems to be using 150G which at least fits with the Buu saga except now he wasn't using Super Saiyan.

Seems like it should be 500G or something.

He did train 150G SSj in Buu arc. But Trunks is training alongside of him. Trunks could barely walk in 150G without SSJ

I was suprised to see Bejita do only 150g of training. I find that a bit low for someone who's trying to surpass Goku and did 300G before the Android arc.

I don't think it's totally unreasonable - after all, he literally walked into the chamber and dialed straight up to 150 times Earth's gravity without so much as a warm up or second of preparation.

When we have previously seen people train in high gravity, they tend to work their way up to successively higher levels gradually as opposed to diving straight into it. Furthermore, in the Buu arc, we saw Vegeta undertaking gravity training in his Super Saiyan form and still working up a sweat, which when you consider the fact that his normal state is many times weaker, I don't it's unreasonable at all to see him get a little flustered by moving around so energetically in such harsh conditions.

Also, I mean, heck, if Goku likes to train on Kaio's planet for the mere increase of 10 times Earth's gravity, then why would 150 times that be an insufficient level to train at?

Goku can take it easy with his training because he doesn't need to surpass anyone. He already is the strongest in the universe, and much stronger than Bejita.
150G isn't insufficient level to train. but it is for someone who always trains 150G and is trying to surpass Goku that already has a big power gap between them.

I'm not sure I ascribe to that logic at all, as if anything, Dragonball repeatedly shows that by 'taking it easy' in regard to training, characters don't tend to stay still, they tend to go backwards. Take Gohan and Piccolo for example in that regard.

Additionally, taking it easy isn't in Goku's character. He's always looking to better himself in case another rival emerges, whether he's sitting at the top of the tree in regards to his own strength estimations or not.

[SuperSayanJim]

I think fusion is actually quite easy to explain, at least in Potara mode. You take each fighters base power and multiply them. Just a little example on

Goku
- Base: 1000
- SSJ: 50 x 100 = 50 000
- SSJ2: 2 x 50 000 = 100 000
- SSJ3: 4 x 100 000 = 400 000

Vegeta
- Base: 900
- SSJ: 50 x 900 = 45 000
- SSJ2: 2 x 45 000 = 90 000

Vegetto
- Base: (G)1000 x (V)900 = 900 000
- SSJ: 50 x 900 000 = 45 000 000

[Blackstripe]

We know full power SSJ Vegeta who is >>>> Ultimate Gohan (rusty most likely), SSJ3 Goku, SSJ Gotenks etc. can draw blood from Bills as seen in BoG..

Beerus was only using a tiny, tiny fraction of his power when he was facing everyone, and Vegeta's sudden explosion caught him off guard. Once he understood Vegeta's new level of power, he casually knocked him out with the same ridiculous ease he did everyone else.

[Bullza]

Can you guys imagine how powerful SSGSS Vegito would be? He'd eat Whis alive.

He'd be that OP he'd make Whis look like even more of a punk than Super Vegito made Buuhan look. For that reason I don't think we'll ever be seeing it.

[Doctor.]

Whis would punk Vegetto, we don't know how strong Potara is when used with Godly Ki, it certainly didn't make Kaioshin that much stronger.

Plus, Whis is, like, the strongest. If he could be beaten by a mere fusion, then his entire existence is pretty irrelevant.

[Chiki]

We know full power SSJ Vegeta who is >>>> Ultimate Gohan (rusty most likely), SSJ3 Goku, SSJ Gotenks etc. can draw blood from Bills as seen in BoG..

Beerus was only using a tiny, tiny fraction of his power when he was facing everyone, and Vegeta's sudden explosion caught him off guard. Once he understood Vegeta's new level of power, he casually knocked him out with the same ridiculous ease he did everyone else.

Yes, but it proves that raging SSJ Vegeta >> Ultimate Gohan who got owned.

Also, as far as we know, you don't just multiply Goku and Vegeta's base power levels to get Base Vegito. There's no proof for that whatsoever.