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Thanks.Herms wrote:Well, he said he takes the movies as "stories in a different dimension than the main story of the manga". Which I suppose arguably amounts to the same thing, but anyway, that's the wording used.Kamiccolo9 wrote:He said that they were alternate universes. Trunks' and Cell's futures are alternate universes.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Off-topic, but X-Men Origins: Wolverine isn't non-canon. All of the X-Men movies are canon, it's just that history was altered, so some events were altered, or never happened.Hellspawn28 wrote:For example, X-Men Origins: Wolverine is a spin off movie and is no longer consider to be canon to the X-Men movies thanks to Days of Future Past.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Going further off this, alternate universe stories aren't "non-canon." They are just that, alternate universes. In Marvel, the Ultimate Universe, MC2, the various "The End" universes....none of these are non-canon, they are just different continuities.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Off-topic, but X-Men Origins: Wolverine isn't non-canon. All of the X-Men movies are canon, it's just that history was altered, so some events were altered, or never happened.Hellspawn28 wrote:For example, X-Men Origins: Wolverine is a spin off movie and is no longer consider to be canon to the X-Men movies thanks to Days of Future Past.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
That isn't a good example, because that scenario wouldn't be saying the manga isn't canonical. It'd be saying the new material is non-canon.I know I keep pointing out the very end of the manga and how, if you want to be consistent about saying "well such-and-such was never mentioned in GT, soooooo....." you have to then say, "Well no-one at the end of the manga mentioned these crazy fights with Beerus or Freeza, soooooo..." And like I say, the manga can't somehow not be canonical to itself, so you have to acknowledge the out-of-universe situations that create these information tidbits that get "left out" (because they didn't exist at the time).
That's all well and good, but, as I've mentioned numerous times, it's not what this thread is about.bleed0range wrote:I'd say it's fairly obvious that if you use common sense, you can infer that Toriyama means that he does not consider GT (or the movies) canon. Or more simply, they're not what he would have done so they're just this side thing that exists. It's not something he is going to concern himself with if writing new material. What HE wrote is what Dragon Ball is to him. Everything else is a side-story or a parallel universe sort of thing. It's pretty much as simple as that.
You can go round and round arguing it, but I doubt Toriyama has given it any more thought then that. I certainly don't think he was thinking, "It's canon but only to the anime" or something. At the same time, he is respectful of other people's ideas and work put into his creation... so he's not going to say anything necessarily negative about those things either.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Well essentially it's a spin off that exists whether you like it or not. It isn't necessarily canon or not but because it's viewed as such by Toriyama he can completely retcon it if he likes and just ignore it and it will still be a "side story."Kamiccolo9 wrote:That's all well and good, but, as I've mentioned numerous times, it's not what this thread is about.bleed0range wrote:I'd say it's fairly obvious that if you use common sense, you can infer that Toriyama means that he does not consider GT (or the movies) canon. Or more simply, they're not what he would have done so they're just this side thing that exists. It's not something he is going to concern himself with if writing new material. What HE wrote is what Dragon Ball is to him. Everything else is a side-story or a parallel universe sort of thing. It's pretty much as simple as that.
You can go round and round arguing it, but I doubt Toriyama has given it any more thought then that. I certainly don't think he was thinking, "It's canon but only to the anime" or something. At the same time, he is respectful of other people's ideas and work put into his creation... so he's not going to say anything necessarily negative about those things either.
GT's status as a side story is in no way a reflection of it's canonicity, as , by their nature, side-stories are not inherently "non-canon."
You can come up with as many valid reasons to declare GT "non-canon" as you want, but it's status as a side story is not onof them.
Another point, Toriyama doesn't have the authority to declare Dragon Ball works non-canon. He is not tsole author of the works in the franchise, nor is he the sole owner of the franchise as a whole. That would be like Stan Lee suddenly declaring that only the comics he wrote for Marvel were official continuity; regardless of whether or not he created the characters and the stories, he doesn't have creative control over them anymore.
You don't seem to understand me. Yes, it's a side story. That doesn't make it "non-canon" in and of itself. That's all there is to it. Other reasons for it being "non-canon" may or may not exist. Those reasons are not important to this thread.bleed0range wrote: Well essentially it's a spin off that exists whether you like it or not. It isn't necessarily canon or not but because it's viewed as such by Toriyama he can completely retcon it if he likes and just ignore it and it will still be a "side story."
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Retcons can easily change canon. The only reason why Toriyama doing retcons doesn't change the canon is because there's no canon established.Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Toriyama can retcon all he wants, it doesn't change the canonicity of anything.
Plus he's quite nonchalant about retcons, heck if there was a GT aspect that he liked and wanted to put into the manga, he'd put it in there and go about his business. Well he already kind of is with Hell but we'll seerereboy wrote:Retcons can easily change canon. The only reason why Toriyama doing retcons doesn't change the canon is because there's no canon established.Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Toriyama can retcon all he wants, it doesn't change the canonicity of anything.
And we never will because neither Toei nor Toriyama care enough to make any official "canon". So everyone can pretty much make up an idea of what theirs is and stick with it.Thanos wrote:...Essentially, no official sources have confirmed any sort of canon, so I, personally, cherry pick certain aspects... which is really the best we can do without anything official, since much of the material is at odds with each other. Basically, it's like religion. We can debate it until the cows come home, but no one has any answers.
No he didn't. And even if he did, that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.Dbzejo wrote:Toriyama said that the movies are non canon (the ones before Battle of Gods). GT shows Cooler escaping from Hell. Enough said. Dont forget the Dragon Fist,lol.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
Actually he did, he said that he considers the movies to be stories in a "different dimension" than the main story of the manga he created. They are not canon and GT shows Cooler escaping from Hell (Hell which contradicts the manga)... Connect the dots,my friend...Kamiccolo9 wrote:No he didn't. And even if he did, that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.Dbzejo wrote:Toriyama said that the movies are non canon (the ones before Battle of Gods). GT shows Cooler escaping from Hell. Enough said. Dont forget the Dragon Fist,lol.
You mean like how Super shows Gregory on Kaio's planet?Dbzejo wrote: Actually he did, he said that he considers the movies to be stories in a "different dimension" than the main story of the manga he created. They are not canon and GT shows Cooler escaping from Hell (Hell which contradicts the manga)... Connect the dots,my friend...
None of that means that anything is "non-canon," and I repeat, none of that has anything to do with this thread, which you necrobumped (which I'm not entirely upset about, since I was gonna end up looking for this thing later, anyway,) only to bring up an off-topic "discussion."Dbzejo wrote:Actually he did, he said that he considers the movies to be stories in a "different dimension" than the main story of the manga he created. They are not canon and GT shows Cooler escaping from Hell (Hell which contradicts the manga)... Connect the dots,my friend...Kamiccolo9 wrote:No he didn't. And even if he did, that has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.Dbzejo wrote:Toriyama said that the movies are non canon (the ones before Battle of Gods). GT shows Cooler escaping from Hell. Enough said. Dont forget the Dragon Fist,lol.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
I don't like GT. I'm talking about the actual meaning of the term "side-story," which you would know if you had actually read the thread. Nor do I care what you "know," as it has nothing to do with this thread.Dbzejo wrote: Side story in regards to GT means non canon. I'm sorry if you like GT but its disgrace to the franchise. I dont hate it, but i know its non canon and new stuff ignores it.
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
