Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

[Captain Space]

no it didnt bother me because it was a bit here and there but nothing which was there all the time. if the next villain for example would be sexual ( i know this sounds kind of weird) and it is a big part of his character such scenes would be in there way to often imo. also i wouldnt be able to take him seriously.

for example i dont like the scenes with roshi where he is a pervert. which happens very often.

I guess I know what you mean. Yeah, I don't think anybody's saying that we want a main villain who's defined by their sexuality (whatever that may be). That'd be kind of weird for Dragon Ball.

Whis is probably a good example, on the other hand. We had a brief scene in Super implying he might be gay or whatever, but prior to that we already basically knew his character and personality. It was just a minor detail brought out mainly for the sake of an unrelated silly moment.

[Alex9196]

when was it hinted that he is gay?

[Captain Space]

when was it hinted that he is gay?

As I said before:

So I know this topic hasn't had any activity for a while, but since Whis was brought up on this topic, I'd like to mention that in Super episode 3, Whis' reaction to a naked Beerus is to turn away, blush and say words to the effect of "Oh my, Lord Beerus!"

Hence "might".

[Alex9196]

yeah i watched it a few minutes ago. i admit i seemed a bit weird but whatever.

somehow i cant understand the character of whis. on one hand he is way stronger than beerus and his teacher. but on the other hand he calls beerus "sama" and acts like his servant. this doesnt make sense to me.

especially in episode 3 beerus was like
hey whis, take me on a trip.
hey whis, make me something to eat.
hey whis, prepare my bath.
hey whis, prepare us lunch for our trip.

its very confusing to me. much more confusing than his reaction to a naked beerus.

[Captain Space]

Well, it's like...in general 'rank' or 'standing' Beerus outranks Whis, and Whis is just his assistant.

Whis is Beerus' martial arts teacher, but that's it.

Like...imagine a spoiled heiress and her butler. The butler may be more knowledgeable and teach her many things, but he still defers to her as his overall superior.

[Alex9196]

i wouldnt do that. i refuse to accept the system of social status.

but this discussion is about whis and he seems to accept it allthough i cant understand it. especially since beerus is supposed to be a god. shouldnt gods be able to handle some stuff on their on.

[Captain Space]

i wouldnt do that. i refuse to accept the system of social status.

but this discussion is about whis and he seems to accept it allthough i cant understand it. especially since beerus is supposed to be a god. shouldnt gods be able to handle some stuff on their on.

Well...you may refuse to accept social status systems, but they exist XD

As for your last point...that's the thing though. DB likes to subvert expectations...so of course, this supposed almighty deity, Lord Beerus...is an often-childish, needy, lazy purple cat-man.

[Alex9196]

yeah he is, he gets angry very easily, not even i get angered so easily and i am very short tempered.

however back to the social system thing, if no one would accept it it wouldnt exist anymore since humanity made it up. its like money, despite how much money you have it is just paper, its the meaning humans give money, which make it valueable for them.

[Captain Space]

however back to the social system thing, if no one would accept it it wouldnt exist anymore since humanity made it up. its like money, despite how much money you have it is just paper, its the meaning humans give money, which make it valueable for them.

That is how society works, yes.

[rereboy]

why would whis be gay?
i never viewed him as gay.

but onto the topic. i dont want the villains in the series to be sexual at all. if i think about it i dont want anyone to be sexual in the series.

He looks the part and in the last episode of Super he blushed and gave a "feminine" giggle when Beerus stepped out of the bath naked. Without it being explicit, I believe the intention is clear, yet seamless, without it being on our face and feeling like agenda.

[Basaku]

He looks the part and in the last episode of Super he blushed and gave a "feminine" giggle when Beerus stepped out of the bath naked. Without it being explicit, I believe the intention is clear, yet seamless, without it being on our face and feeling like agenda.

Because the 'danger' of any character popping a rainbow flag and breaking into a monologue on gay rights in Dragon Ball was so real.

In any case, if Whis is gay then I'm happy on hand, rolling my eyes on another because it's a feminine flamboyant character. Being such a big fanboy of "the west" one would think Toriyama have seen "average gay Joes" in his life already, or at least in the past 2 decades and realizes the obvious tropes and stereotypes.

[rereboy]

Because the 'danger' of any character popping a rainbow flag and breaking into a monologue on gay rights in Dragon Ball was so real.

No, it's simply because I don't like something that looks like agenda, doesn't really matter what it is about or if it's not too extreme.

[Basaku]

No, it's simply because I don't like something that looks like agenda, doesn't really matter what it is about.

You can hardly even specify what would look or qualify to you as an agenda and what not on this topic so perhaps it's just easier to realize you're so accustomed to biased historic exclusion of LGBT characters in art & entertainment that now that it's finally beggining to change your "but I don't like changes" human nature trait is kicking in. Plus, you're still treating the subject as if it was on the same level of subjectivism as economic views, favourite color or something. It's not. The position of illogical exclusion/discrimination is not potentially equally valid, right or justified as the position of inclusion.

[rereboy]

You can hardly even specify what would look or qualify to you as an agenda

That's like trying to define exactly what is good in a movie. You can say that the plot was good and the characters, and you liked that scene and so on, but you will have a really hard time pinpointing exactly why and how that movie was good while others weren't as great. Most of the time, it just works and you just know it when you see it.

So, you can dial down the conspiracy theory about being biased and so on. It's simply not true (at least in my case), even if you would like it to be. If I simply didn't like changes in my entertainment in terms of sexual and gender roles, I wouldn't like shows like Buffy, and yet it's one show I've loved ever since it aired. Of course, it's easier to dismiss any critique as being biased, but much less accurate.

[Basaku]

That's like trying to define exactly what is good in a movie. You can say that the plot was good and the characters, and you liked that scene and so on, but you will have a really hard time pinpointing exactly why and how that movie was good while others weren't as great. Most of the time, it just works and you just know it when you see it.

And once again, exclusion/inclusion of LGBT characters is not a comparable subjective discussion as which character was written better or which plot was better. So honestly, having a "I dont like agenda" argument on standby doesn't really work and it doesn't give you an automatic pass on what you didn't like about once case of inclusion or another.

[rereboy]

Since I've never even tried to state anything other than my opinion, I don't get your point.

[ABED]

despite how much money you have it is just paper, its the meaning humans give money, which make it valueable for them.

While you're right that money's value comes ultimately from people's values, the economist in me needs to correct something, money isn't what you think, it's not simply pieces of paper. Money existed before the printing press. It's a means of exhange.

shouldnt gods be able to handle some stuff on their on.

It's more in line with the classic gods, plus it's fictional, so Toriyama can write gods however he wishes. The thing I want to know is what the hell Kami does.

[Alex9196]

yes it is used for exchange, but that doesnt change the fact that it was invented by humanity or that it is just paper.
i have absolutely no clue about economics but before money was invented i am pretty sure people just traded there stuff without money.

[rereboy]

yes it is used for exchange, but that doesnt change the fact that it was invented by humanity or that it is just paper.
i have absolutely no clue about economics but before money was invented i am pretty sure people just traded there stuff without money.

It's basically the same thing, only, instead of having a direct exchange of goods or work, you have an indirect exchange with money in the middle. This makes transactions way easier and quick because you don't have to have the goods close by to exchange, you just keep the money, and there's automatically much less negotiations and arguments about the exchanges on the small scale. Money is just a convenient way to exchange.

[Alex9196]

yes thats true. money is basically a convinient method of trading.

but whatever, i dont care about money.