The All-Purpose "What-If " Thread

[h0kuten]

Goku & Vegeta have always been depicted as equals, with Goku always having the edge by a small degree. Vegeta is the basis to debunk your argument because he received a comment about his potential, and Goku included, but made no comment about the all mighty, forever growing potential of the kids or Ultimate Gohan.

[Doctor.]

Yea, no. They've been portrayed as equals in power, not in potential. Goku has always needed special training to match up to Vegeta's strength and, like I stated earlier, Vegeta has always been the one with the mos potential because he's a Saiyan elite. Vegeta having more potential than any other Saiyan and Goku overcoming natural potential with effort and willpower was the entire point of their first fight, how can you not get this?

Whether or not Beerus made a comment about VEGETA's potential means nothing in relation to Goku, you just want it to.

[h0kuten]

Vegeta already said Goku is always beyond him.
Whiss said Goku is always 1 step ahead of Vegeta.

Goku > Vegeta in potential.

So if Beerus comments on Vegeta's potential (& Goku's at the same time) definitely means something.

Whiss debunks you.

[fadeddreams5]

Gohan & the kids had the highest potential at one time. Not anymore.

If we omit these terrible new movies that completely downplay Gohan's powers and have done everything possible to nerf him, he should by all means have more potential than Goku.

Goku was a SSJ when he went into the ROSAT with Gohan, who could not transform. Not only did Gohan manage to go SSJ in that time, but he surpassed his father (who managed to ascend beyond SSJ in there) without even realizing it, and later tapped into his hidden reserves to channel a devastating force that eclipsed the abilities of every single character in the series up to that point. 7 years later, Vegeta, who never stops training, is only ABOUT as strong as Gohan was during this time before he gets his majin boost.

Let's disregard the ultimate powers and god bullshit. What does this all tell you? If Gohan trained as Goku does, he'd be much, much superior to his father. This already happened, and he didn't even realize at what point in their training it occurred. Potential doesn't just disappear; Gohan is talented in many areas, but he decides to focus on his mental training instead.

[h0kuten]

Potential is a forever changing concept of Dragonball Z.

a) Ssj was supposed to be the highest potential a Saiyan could achieve. It was retconned.
b) Ssj2 was intended to be Gohan's full potential brought out. It was retconned.

The kids & Gohan had the highest potential at one time, not anymore.

[Alex9196]

Yea, no. They've been portrayed as equals in power, not in potential. Goku has always needed special training to match up to Vegeta's strength and, like I stated earlier, Vegeta has always been the one with the mos potential because he's a Saiyan elite. Vegeta having more potential than any other Saiyan and Goku overcoming natural potential with effort and willpower was the entire point of their first fight, how can you not get this?

Whether or not Beerus made a comment about VEGETA's potential means nothing in relation to Goku, you just want it to.

I am sorry to interrupt your conversation but I really dont agree.

Yes, Vegeta was born stronger than Goku and labeled an elite. But just because you are born stronger than someone else doesn't mean you have more potential. Also potential is limitless since you always can get stronger.

Majin Vegeta even stated in the fight against ssj2 Goku that Goku was born with a natural talent far beyond his own.

[Doctor.]

Vegeta already said Goku is always beyond him.
Whiss said Goku is always 1 step ahead of Vegeta.

Goku > Vegeta in potential.

So if Beerus comments on Vegeta's potential (& Goku's at the same time) definitely means something.

Whiss debunks you.

Yes, he said that and Goku also said that Vegeta is equal to him despite all the superior training Goku undergoes, what does that tell you?

Any new material that somehow insists that Goku is special and must be superior to everyone else because he's the main character, like the movies and Minus, contradicts the manga. And I'm sorry, but I'll take the source material over any contradicting additions 20 years later.

Majin Vegeta even stated in the fight against ssj2 Goku that Goku was born with a natural talent far beyond his own.

Dub line, if I recall correctly.

[h0kuten]

Vegeta already said Goku is always beyond him.
Whiss said Goku is always 1 step ahead of Vegeta.

Goku > Vegeta in potential.

So if Beerus comments on Vegeta's potential (& Goku's at the same time) definitely means something.

Whiss debunks you.

Yes, he said that and Goku also said that Vegeta is equal to him despite all the superior training Goku undergoes, what does that tell you?

Any new material that somehow insists that Goku is special and must be superior to everyone else because he's the main character, like the movies and Minus, contradicts the manga. And I'm sorry, but I'll take the source material over any contradicting additions 20 years later.

Your old material doesn't hold the final authority anymore.

Gohan & Gotenks have been retconned out in potential.

It's Goku & Vegeta time.

[Alex9196]

Is it really just in the eng dub, because this statement is essential they cant just make that up?
Do you know what he really says?

[Doctor.]

Your old material doesn't hold the final authority anymore.

What? It's the original thing. It's what matters. It's the only thing you can call with 100% certainty "canon". It has always held the "final authority" and it always will, because without it nothing else of the series would exist.

I forgot that the argument originated from BoG, so we do have to take those movies into account, but in the manga it's clear as cut that Goku doesn't have any potential.

Is it really just in the eng dub, because this statement is essential they cant just make that up?
Do you know what he really says?

I don't know about Viz, but the translation I read just has Vegeta saying "I may have trained harder, but you're still stronger than I am". Which makes sense considering Goku was already above him back when the Cell arc ended and he underwent more privileged training in the Other World.

[fadeddreams5]

Your old material doesn't hold the final authority anymore..

Sort of does since there's no official canon.

The new stuff is based on it, but it's not part of it either.

[Alex9196]

Your old material doesn't hold the final authority anymore.

What? It's the original thing. It's what matters. It's the only thing you can call with 100% certainty "canon". It has always held the "final authority" and it always will, because without it nothing else of the series would exist.

I forgot that the argument originated from BoG, so we do have to take those movies into account, but in the manga it's clear as cut that Goku doesn't have any potential.

Is it really just in the eng dub, because this statement is essential they cant just make that up?
Do you know what he really says?

I don't know about Viz, but the translation I read just has Vegeta saying "I may have trained harder, but you're still stronger than I am". Which makes sense considering Goku was already above him back when the Cell arc ended and he underwent more privileged training in the Other World.

I didn't mean what he said in the manga, but in the japanese dub, do you know that too?

[h0kuten]

Your old material doesn't hold the final authority anymore..

Sort of does since there's no official canon.

The new stuff is based on it, but it's not part of it either.

It is apart of it.

Dragonball Super is a continuation from the Manga. It also changes what occurred because what occurred isn't immune to change.

[dbzfan7]

Sweet Kaioshin, so many in universe threads are being polluted with a CODE ORANGE. I'd be spamming at this point.

My what if.

What if Goku had to stop fighting forever to protect those he loves? How long can he last without going insane?

[dbgtFO]

My what if.

What if Goku had to stop fighting forever to protect those he loves? How long can he last without going insane?

Define "stop fighting."

Does it mean stop seeking out strong opponents and fighting them, but still training or does it mean stop training?
Because if it's the first, we already saw this in Z, when Goku went 5 years at home with his Family and 7 years in the afterlife, where nobody was on par with him and he didn't lose it.
If it's the latter, Goku would last a day, lol.

[dbzfan7]

My what if.

What if Goku had to stop fighting forever to protect those he loves? How long can he last without going insane?

Define "stop fighting."

Does it mean stop seeking out strong opponents and fighting them, but still training or does it mean stop training?
Because if it's the first, we already saw this in Z, when Goku went 5 years at home with his Family and 7 years in the afterlife, where nobody was on par with him and he didn't lose it.
If it's the latter, Goku would last a day, lol.

Drop everything. No more fighting. No more training. Maybe he'd become a bigger pig when it comes to food to compensate.

[fadeddreams5]

Your old material doesn't hold the final authority anymore..

Sort of does since there's no official canon.

The new stuff is based on it, but it's not part of it either.

It is apart of it.

Dragonball Super is a continuation from the Manga. It also changes what occurred because what occurred isn't immune to change.

The new movies were also a continuation of the manga, but Super contradicts them. There is no official canon.

Super is based on the manga, but again, it isn't a volume 43 or something. Super is part of Super, just like GT was a part of GT. Both continuations, neither actually a part of the manga.

What if Goku had to stop fighting forever to protect those he loves? How long can he last without going insane?

He'd be pretty bored, but Goku doesn't strike me as someone who'd get depressed. He'd just find enjoyment in something else he loves, like fishing. Also, he may get fat if he has to stop training altogether.

[Draconic]

What if Goku had to stop fighting forever to protect those he loves? How long can he last without going insane?

Unless he continues to farm, he would get fat as hell and die of diabetes before going insane.

[h0kuten]

Super is retelling the events of Battle of Gods, not contradicting them.

Both are continuations of the manga.

[fadeddreams5]

Only it's already contradicted BoG. >_>