Death Battle: Goku vs Superman 2

[Kamiccolo9]

What?

You're trying to justify lol infinity feats by saying he's done it more than once

I don't have to justify them. He's done it, and it was under his own power, not some outside influence. Whether it's PIS or whatever is irrelevant.

Just because you don't like the feat, and the feat itself is dumb, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. And he's done it multiple times, so it wasn't just a single offshoot of PIS. I don't particularly care for the 40 ton limit for Goku in base, but that's his greatest definable strength feat, so I go with it.

[Saiyan007]

It contradicts 99% of his showings

I don't need to read a comic to know that

Saying Superman has infinite strength contradicts so many things

That would mean Kal Kent his future descendant is weaker than him (yet when Kal met Supes he said he was far stronger than him, The narrator said it as well)

Yet Kal couldn't stop a galaxy by himself (even though he was weakened someone who's above a person who's above infinity stopping a galaxy should be a peice of cake)

Also Superman thousands of years in the future after spending most of his time on the sun wasn't even close to have infinite strength

Since you know infinite strength equals infinite durability which is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Omniversal

Like I said you accepting infinite Superman kinda tells me you're not a person that thinks logically

[Dbzk1999]

What "infinity" fears did they use? Because there's two I remember, and there was context behind the "infinite" feats

[Saiyan007]

Any character that's not an omnipotent lifting infinity doesn't count because it's infinity

[White Oni]

What does "lifting infinity" even mean?...

Infinity isn't an actuality it's only a theoretical notion...

You can't have something weigh "infinite pounds" in reality... Infinite isn't a quantifiable number...

If superman has the strength to lift infinite pounds, that means that if somehow superman was weakened to the point where he could only use 0.0000000000000000000000000001% of his normal lifting capacity, he'd STILL be able to lift infinite pounds... Yet, we know this isn't true... He has to work up to that strength...

Another absurdity is imagining HOW he made the "gains" to get to the point where he can lift this weight... Maybe he exerts himself just a little more than normal and the feat becomes possible, but that means that somewhere between exerting normal amounts of strength and exerting to where his "infinite weight lifting" is possible, he increases his strength infinite fold... Such a notion is just utterly ridiculous... Is it simply built into his genetic make-up that "given any instance where he moves from exerting 75% max output to, say 76%, his physical durability and strength are amplified by infinity"? The man of science, superman is starting to sound awfully magical... And by that, I mean, "impossible to contemplate without throwing in the 'because magic' card."

[Kamiccolo9]

It contradicts 99% of his showings

I don't need to read a comic to know that

Saying Superman has infinite strength contradicts so many things

That would mean Kal Kent his future descendant is weaker than him (yet when Kal met Supes he said he was far stronger than him, The narrator said it as well)

Yet Kal couldn't stop a galaxy by himself (even though he was weakened someone who's above a person who's above infinity stopping a galaxy should be a peice of cake)

Also Superman thousands of years in the future after spending most of his time on the sun wasn't even close to have infinite strength

Since you know infinite strength equals infinite durability which is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Omniversal

Like I said you accepting infinite Superman kinda tells me you're not a person that thinks logically

It doesn't contradict anything. It says that under those conditions, at that moment, Superman was capable of lifting objects with unlimited weight. And again, contradictions don't mean feats didn't happen. I'm sorry, but "thinking logically" doesn't apply when the feats are shown and stated, clear as day.

Also, the veiled insults are getting annoying. Cut it out.

[Hellspawn28]

As far as the Elder Kai's statement about Beerus destroying the universe, its not so far fetched if you think about Toriyama saying in an interview that Beerus can destroy the Kaioshin realm (one fifth of universe 7).

Destroying the universe can mean anything. It can mean destroying one planet and star at a time or just blowing up everything completely. Whis saying Beerus can wipe out a solar system make sense since we know that he can destroy stars before. However the universe is huge meaning that you would have destroy every galaxy, dimension and time & space it's self. Buu and Super Yi Xing Long can destroy a universe with a chain reaction, but not full power.

[Saiyan007]

It contradicts 99% of his showings

I don't need to read a comic to know that

Saying Superman has infinite strength contradicts so many things

That would mean Kal Kent his future descendant is weaker than him (yet when Kal met Supes he said he was far stronger than him, The narrator said it as well)

Yet Kal couldn't stop a galaxy by himself (even though he was weakened someone who's above a person who's above infinity stopping a galaxy should be a peice of cake)

Also Superman thousands of years in the future after spending most of his time on the sun wasn't even close to have infinite strength

Since you know infinite strength equals infinite durability which is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Omniversal

Like I said you accepting infinite Superman kinda tells me you're not a person that thinks logically

It doesn't contradict anything. It says that under those conditions, at that moment, Superman was capable of lifting objects with unlimited weight. And again, contradictions don't mean feats didn't happen. I'm sorry, but "thinking logically" doesn't apply when the feats are shown and stated, clear as day.

Also, the veiled insults are getting annoying. Cut it out.

It does contradict lots of things because if he had infinite durability he would never get hurt by anything period

If you actually read Superman comics over the decades you would know him lifting infinity is a MASSIVE outlier

I'm not going to cherry pick his feats which make no sense to begin with that contradicts every time he gets hurt

Thinking logically should apply here because you can't gain infinite strength no matter how hard you try

You could take it as a hyperbolic statement tbh

[VegettoEX]

Rude posts and poor grammar from native English speakers will not be tolerated. Account strikes come next. You do not want these.

[White Oni]

You guys actually grade and punish our use of grammar on here?

No offense, you probably don't make the rules, but that's some seriously gross elitism.

And how do you know who is and who isn't a native English speaker???

[rereboy]

It does contradict lots of things because if he had infinite durability he would never get hurt by anything period

Except the whole point of it is doing the literally impossible so of course it makes no sense. That's the whole point, that's the statement behind it. It's impossible, except for Superman.

If you actually read Superman comics over the decades you would know him lifting infinity is a MASSIVE outlier

In Superman comics the difficulty that Superman has with obstacles vary immensely and go from him having trouble to catching a bullet to doing massive cosmic stuff. Your talk of outiers would make sense only if his portrayal was consistent and if that feat was somehow the only time he did something like that and it wasn't meant to be taken seriously and was probably a mistake by the writers. But it's not. The portrayal isn't consistent and he does stuff like lifting infinity several times as well as many cosmic stuff and much smaller stuff, all of which are supposed to be taken seriously and not a mistake.

I'm not going to cherry pick his feats which make no sense to begin with that contradicts every time he gets hurt

Seems to me that what you are doing is cherry picking what "doesn't count", ignoring the whole purpose behind it.

Thinking logically should apply here because you can't gain infinite strength no matter how hard you try

It's supposed to not make sense. Thinking logically, there shouldn't exist a book with infinite pages because it doesn't make sense to have infinite pages. But it exists. Or are you gonna argue that it doesn't exist because it doesn't make sense?

You could take it as a hyperbolic statement tbh

That's just ignoring what we want to ignore.

[Saiyan007]

Except the whole point of it is doing the literally impossible so of course it makes no sense. That's the whole point, that's the statement behind it. It's impossible, except for Superman.

Except shazam did it and Ultraman did it himself so I'll ask again is Ultraman now infinitely stronger than Superman and Shazam?

In Superman comics the difficulty that Superman has with obstacles vary immensely and go from him having trouble to catching a bullet to doing massive cosmic stuff. Your talk of outiers would make sense only if his portrayal was consistent and if that feat was somehow the only time he did something like that and it wasn't meant to be taken seriously and was probably a mistake by the writers. But it's not. The portrayal isn't consistent and he does stuff like lifting infinity several times as well as many cosmic stuff and much smaller stuff, all of which are supposed to be taken seriously and not a mistake.

So we should take the high end feat of him lifting infinity that would give him infinite durability but ignore 99% of his other showings that disprove that he has infinite durability

Seems to me that what you are doing is cherry picking what "doesn't count", ignoring the whole purpose behind it.

I'm not the one claiming he has infinite stats when hundreds of feats contradict it

It's supposed to not make sense. Thinking logically, there shouldn't exist a book with infinite pages because it doesn't make sense to have infinite pages. But it exists. Or are you gonna argue that it doesn't exist because it doesn't make sense?

But you're trying to accept an un quantifiable feat in the first place

Not too mention the book doesn't even have infinite mass

That's just ignoring what we want to ignore.

If you take it at face value Ultraman is infinitely stronger than Superman

You can't quantify infinity in the first place

It's an unquantifiable feat

[voltlunok]

If you take it at face value Ultraman is infinitely stronger than Superman

You can't quantify infinity in the first place

It's an unquantifiable feat

Ok so just gonna jump in here, explain something then jump out. No it doesn't make anyone stronger then anyone. Infinity is infinity. What's half of infinity? Infinity! No matter how much we break down or split the load, they are STILL individually carrying infinity. Shazam carried infinity, Superman carried infinity, Wonder Woman carried infinity, Ultraman carried infinity. (As a side note, Ultraman is still superman just from another Earth. Soooooo still supes.) hell I'm sure if a writer wanted to they'd have BATMAN lift infinity.

One of the key things to remember for Superman in any incarnation on the writing side is He is as strong as the writer needs him to be. Superman has no limits. That's a fact, he will always be inconsistent and they've written in excuses for why he is inconsistent. If they want him to lift infinity, he lifts infinity. If they want him to vaporize half a universe? He vaporizes half a universe. If they want him to dive through a sun and tank the punishment that entails? He dives through a sun and shrugs it off like it's Tuesday! Supes does whatever the writer feels like he can do and at this point? Supes can do ANYTHING. He's a veritable god among men and that's how he's always been.

That's my rant, have a good day.

[Sora Saiyan]

Maybe Supes has infinite strength, but it doesn't scale to his durability and other stats the same way. That's the way his infinite strength could work I guess. So maybe in the DC Universe Infinite strength is just in regards to his strength and nothing more. If that were the case, then characters without infinite strength could still beat Superman. I dunno.

[GokuRules987]

People need to realize that screwattack simply hates Anime/DBZ in general. They were happy enough to do this whole Goku vs Supes battle just for the views and to troll DBZ fanboys. Even though Superman fanboys who where hating on Goku failed to realize that he is a better written character compared to Superman. Would have been ironic if while they were celebrating Goku's death Screw Attack had Superman prime one million fight against Masaki Tenchi. I mean would you rather want Goku to beat Superman or some high school japanese kid from a harem show that has a power of literal omnipotence and PIS powers like light hawk wings that can reduce all Attack and Defense to zero and can erase you completely from existence as he proceeds to blink all version's of superman out of existence without even lifting a finger? lol

[fadeddreams5]

You guys actually grade and punish our use of grammar on here?

No offense, you probably don't make the rules, but that's some seriously gross elitism.

And how do you know who is and who isn't a native English speaker???

Pretty sure he does make the rules. lol.

But I'm pretty sure they only penalize when what you write is hard to read or distracting (everything bolded or capitalized). This rule is common in message boards.

[mmg86]

Regarding the "book with infinite pages" discussion, well, when i read Superman Beyond (the story in which it happens), it was the spanish version, so there MIGHT have been some translation problem/inaccuracy, but it did not have infinite pages. Instead, what was said was something like "this book contains ALL books".

So, assuming the translation didnt mess it up, i see two interpretations. One, that it was every single book ever written in the DC multiverse. So... the average number of books ever written in the story of the universe times 52 (the number of universes). Probably a ridiculously large figure, but not infinite.

The other possible interpretation would be that it contained every single book that could ever exist. As in, not only all books ever written, but also all books that will be written in the future, plus every book that COULD be written but were not/will not be. That... would be infinite indeed.

[Kamiccolo9]

Regarding the "book with infinite pages" discussion, well, when i read Superman Beyond (the story in which it happens), it was the spanish version, so there MIGHT have been some translation problem/inaccuracy, but it did not have infinite pages. Instead, what was said was something like "this book contains ALL books".

So, assuming the translation didnt mess it up, i see two interpretations. One, that it was every single book ever written in the DC multiverse. So... the average number of books ever written in the story of the universe times 52 (the number of universes). Probably a ridiculously large figure, but not infinite.

The other possible interpretation would be that it contained every single book that could ever exist. As in, not only all books ever written, but also all books that will be written in the future, plus every book that COULD be written but were not/will not be. That... would be infinite indeed.

[voltlunok]

People need to realize that screwattack simply hates Anime/DBZ in general.

Really? So that's why Vegeta beat Shadow? So it can't be that they hate Dragon Ball Z...

Or how about the Tigerzord vs Gundam Epyon fight? Power Rangers, while an adaptation of Super Sentai which is from Japan, is from the west and Gundam is anime...yet Epyon won! Plus let's not forget that they actually have a lot of anime vs anime or Japanese video game character vs Japanese video game character fights. So it can't be that they hate anime or Japan.

No what happened was that they did the round 2 everyone clamored for and the same thing happened again. Goku can't beat superman. They even say it, Superman is one of those character who doesn't belong in these kinds of VS fights cause they will ALWAYS WIN! This isn't about fanboyism or Death battle having some secret 'THE WEST MUST ALWAYS WIN!' agenda. They pulled the facts together and deduced that even with SSGSS, Goku still can't beat superman and just like their parody King Kai (Who was SPOT ON!) said, even if Goku found the power to defeat superman, he have nothing left to aspire towards, his character would be done. To put this bluntly, if Goku found the power to beat Superman...he'd become what he was so determined to beat...Superman.

[dario03]

People need to realize that screwattack simply hates Anime/DBZ in general. They were happy enough to do this whole Goku vs Supes battle just for the views and to troll DBZ fanboys. Even though Superman fanboys who where hating on Goku failed to realize that he is a better written character compared to Superman. Would have been ironic if while they were celebrating Goku's death Screw Attack had Superman prime one million fight against Masaki Tenchi. I mean would you rather want Goku to beat Superman or some high school japanese kid from a harem show that has a power of literal omnipotence and PIS powers like light hawk wings that can reduce all Attack and Defense to zero and can erase you completely from existence as he proceeds to blink all version's of superman out of existence without even lifting a finger? lol

One could just as easily say DBZ fanboys simply hate comics/superman in general. And don't want to admit any possibility of Superman>Goku in power or writing.
And what does Tenchi have to do with this battle? And again you could easily do the same but the other way around. How about Death Battle has Goku fight pre-retcon beyonder? Then we could see Goku get completely erased. Heck while we're at it, just completely erase the whole DBZ multiverse so that it never was.