Is Goku really not a superman in anyway?

[TheUltimateVegito]

Either way, I'm sure he meant that the Saiyans were just as bad as Freeza, so he believed they were better off dead. Goku was definitely himself, despite being angry. I mean, he did want to spare Freeza after all. And I don't recall him acting differently during their fight, like Gohan did when he fought Cell.

Nobody is denying that Goku thought the Saiyans were better off dead. But just like he was avenging the Namekians, and Vegeta, he also put it upon himself to avenge the Saiyans, he says it himself. Why he did that is up to anyone's guess.

And Goku did lose a part of himself during the fight, that's the main point of the SS transformation. Kaio puts it very clearly that Goku is no longer himself but has turned into the Super Saiyan, "a warrior whose heart has been awakened by rage". Goku only regains his personality back when he calms himself down later on in the fight.

Because Vegeta represented the pride of the Saiyans. Goku said it himself that he wanted to share some of Vegeta's Saiyan pride before claiming he's fighting for the Saiyans. He also said that he hated Vegeta, just like he hated the Saiyans.

And I'm sure he meant what he said still. It's like saying Goku didn't meant anything else he said simply because he's angry.

[Doctor.]

Well, he was angry and said he'd kill Freeza. And then... he didn't, lol.

[TheUltimateVegito]

Well, he was angry and said he'd kill Freeza. And then... he didn't, lol.

Good point.

But still, I don't think there's really anything that suggests he didn't meant what he said like that when it came to the Saiyans. Plus, I'm sure there are other things Goku said during his rage that he was serious about.

[Doctor.]

Yes, I'm sure Goku hated the Saiyans. But doesn't it make him more heroic that he'd put his life on the line to avenge them (along with the others too)?

[TheUltimateVegito]

i mean when he died against cell maybe he was saying his honest opinion on why he wants to stay in otherworld, but maybe he wanted to train undisturbed in the otherworld without his insanely irritating wife and without any real sparring partner.

Well, ChiChi wasn't shown to be irritating for Goku. The only time ChiChi threw a fit was when Gohan fighting is involved. And as for a sparring partner, he had Gohan, who was more than enough. Whenever Gohan was busy studying Goku could've trained, and whenever Gohan was not busy they would've most likely sparred with each other. Plus, I'm sure Goku's presence would motivate Gohan to stay in shape.

I dont think ChiChi would let Gohan sparr with Goku. She even said that after the training he studies. And knowing Gohan he would have probably done it anyway. Also how is ChiChi not irritating?

She always wants Goku to find a job, because obviously multiple savior of the world is not a good enough occupation for her. And if you count Filler she even wants him to drive her around in the car and make familytrips of some sort.

ChiChi mainly wanted Gohan to get out of danger and not put fighting over studies. I'm sure ChiChi would let Gohan spar with Goku whenever he takes a break from the studying.

She never bugged Goku to get a job until DBS.

[TheUltimateVegito]

Yes, I'm sure Goku hated the Saiyans. But doesn't it make him more heroic that he'd put his life on the line to avenge them (along with the others too)?

Well, it can be argued that his reason for wanting to avenge them isn't very heroic. It's not like he wanted to avenge them just because they're his people, it was because he relates to their pride. Pride isn't a very heroic thing.

[rereboy]

She never bugged Goku to get a job until DBS.

They never really had money problems before thanks to her dad.

[Alex9196]

She never bugged Goku to get a job until DBS.

They never really had money problems before thanks to her dad.

I dont understand how they can have money problems? Bulma is like the richest person in the world. She wouldnt even notice, if she gave them enough money to buy the stuff ChiChi wants.

Besides why would ChiChi need money in the first place, except for Gohan's million books?

[ABED]

Pride isn't a very heroic thing.

Pride and arrogance are two completely different things. Pride is earned, arrogance isn't. Pride, while not heroic, is most certainly an admirable quality.

[Alex9196]

Pride isn't a very heroic thing.

Pride and arrogance are two completely different things. Pride is earned, arrogance isn't. Pride, while not heroic, is most certainly an admirable quality.

Pride is one of the most important things a being can have, arrogance is mostly bad.

[Rocketman]

Besides why would ChiChi need money in the first place, except for Gohan's million books?

Buying food for three Saiyans.

[rereboy]

Pride and arrogance are two completely different things. Pride is earned, arrogance isn't. Pride, while not heroic, is most certainly an admirable quality.

Pride is one of the most important things a being can have, arrogance is mostly bad.

The arrogant calls his arrogance pride because he believes it is earned. The difference between the two is just perspective and since everyone thinks they are right, the difference between pride and arrogance becomes pretty much just subjective.

A person who is at peace and satisfied with himself is what people should aspire for, not pride. Pride is more than just being at peace and satisfied, pride implies a sense of superiority and whether it's justified or not that isn't very good in the long run which is why it's historically considered to be a cardinal sin.

[Alex9196]

Pride and arrogance are two completely different things. Pride is earned, arrogance isn't. Pride, while not heroic, is most certainly an admirable quality.

Pride is one of the most important things a being can have, arrogance is mostly bad.

The arrogant calls his arrogance pride because he believes it is earned. The difference between the two is just perspective and since everyone thinks they are right, the difference between pride and arrogance becomes pretty much just subjective.

A person who is at peace and satisfied with himself is what people should aspire for, not pride. Pride is more than just being at peace and satisfied, pride implies a sense of superiority and whether it's justified or not that isn't very good in the long run which is why it's historically considered to be a cardinal sin.

Well, I guess most people have different opinions on pride and sometimes i think I am on off the view today, who actually cares about his pride. I asked many people if they care about their pride and most didn't. Yes, pride maybe also a feeling of superiority, but what's wrong with wanting to be better than others?

And about the cardinal sin thing, I don't really know much about religion, but if I remember correctly pride is considered a deadly sin because the devil wanted to take "gods" throne in heaven and therefore started a war.

[rereboy]

Well, I guess most people have different opinions on pride and sometimes i think I am on off the view today, who actually cares about his pride. I asked many people if they care about their pride and most didn't. Yes, pride maybe also a feeling of superiority, but what's wrong with wanting to be better than others?

And about the cardinal sin thing, I don't really know much about religion, but if I remember correctly pride is considered a deadly sin because the devil wanted to take "gods" throne in heaven and therefore started a war.

We have a very good example in Dragon Ball of what's wrong with it: Vegeta and Goku. While Goku always improved himself just for himself, Vegeta did out of a sense of pride. He needed to be superior to others, namely Goku, and that eventually just made him accept being possessed and kill a lot of people. Only when Vegeta let go of that overblown sense of pride, did he find a sense of peace and a sense of satisfaction later on. Nowadays, he's still far from being like Goku and he still wants to surpass him, but because he let go of so much of his pride already, he is much more like Goku now and he started to improve himself much less because of others and more for himself.

Goku represents who we should aspire to be in that regard, someone who is just at peace and satisfied with himself, who betters himself and surpasses obstacles purely for himself and never due to others. Vegeta represents the opposite. Later on, he represents a person greatly rehabilitated in that regard but someone who could still be much better in that regard.

Also, when I mentioned cardinal sin I didn't want to talk about religion, which is why I mentioned historically. People's negative view of it goes beyond religion, religion just also includes a view like that.

[Alex9196]

Well, Vegeta still has pride and still wants to surpass Goku. Pride isn't just if you act like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Freeza arc. You can also have pride without having to kill or show others that you're stronger by putting them down. You can be like Goku and also be proud how strong you are for example.

For example I would like it if Goku doesn't always do as ChiChi says and is calm with it. Vegeta wouldn't do so and that is because of pride.

[rereboy]

Well, Vegeta still has pride and still wants to surpass Goku. Pride isn't just if you act like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Freeza arc. You can also have pride without having to kill or show others that you're stronger by putting them down. You can be like Goku and also be proud how strong you are for example.

It seems like you didn't read all of post since I never mentioned that Vegeta became just like Goku.

For example I would like it if Goku doesn't always do as ChiChi says and is calm with it. Vegeta wouldn't do so and that is because of pride.

Because of his pride, Vegeta will yell at Bulma and blow her off, while Goku will always be nice to Chichi. That much should tell you enough about the difference. And Goku is always doing what he wants to do, he barely listens to Chichi, so it's completely untrue that he needs to be prideful to not do what she tells him to.

What you are essentially saying is that you would like Goku to not be so pure of heart.

[Alex9196]

Well, Vegeta still has pride and still wants to surpass Goku. Pride isn't just if you act like Vegeta in the Saiyan and Freeza arc. You can also have pride without having to kill or show others that you're stronger by putting them down. You can be like Goku and also be proud how strong you are for example.

It seems like you didn't read all of post since I never mentioned that Vegeta became just like Goku.

For example I would like it if Goku doesn't always do as ChiChi says and is calm with it. Vegeta wouldn't do so and that is because of pride.

Because of his pride, Vegeta will yell at Bulma and blow her off, while Goku will always be nice to Chichi. That much should tell you enough about the difference. And Goku is always doing what he wants to do, he barely listens to Chichi, so it's completely untrue that he needs to be prideful to not do what she tells him to.

What you are essentially saying is that you would like Goku to not be so pure of heart.

Vegeta will maybe yell at bulma, so what? Bulma yells at him too. And ChiChi pretty much yells at everyone all the time.
Also how is Goku not listening to ChiChi? In the very first episode of Super we see him earning money by working on the fields. That was not his idea.

After Gohan was born the dialouge was something like this:

ChiChi: Gohan is going to become a scholar.
Goku: But i would want him to become a fighter.
ChiChi: No Goku.
Goku: Ok.

There is a difference between pure of heart and letting someone do with you what he or she wants.

[FortuneSSJ]

So, want to protect the earth and his loved ones makes him a superman?!
Tha't what heroes do, even though he doesn't care about being one.

Anyway, I never saw him wear red panties over his costume. So no, Goku is not Superman and thank god for that.

[rereboy]

Vegeta will maybe yell at bulma, so what? Bulma yells at him too. And ChiChi pretty much yells at everyone all the time.
Also how is Goku not listening to ChiChi? In the very first episode of Super we see him earning money by working on the fields. That was not his idea.

After Gohan was born the dialouge was something like this:

ChiChi: Gohan is going to become a scholar.
Goku: But i would want him to become a fighter.
ChiChi: No Goku.
Goku: Ok.

There is a difference between pure of heart and letting someone do with you what he or she wants.

What are you talking about? Goku does what he wants pretty much all the time. Just because he actually agreed to do some work because they were broke and because he let Chichi give Gohan an education you think that he doesn't stand up for himself and is always doing what he is told and thus he should be more prideful and yell at Chichi? What...? That doesn't even make sense...

Seems to me that you are just a fan of the typical alpha male role and its typical characteristics, like somehow that's a good thing.

[fadeddreams5]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgozkfGrE5w

Goku should do that and move in with King Kai.