If Dragon Ball was first dubbed after 2007, who plays Goku?

[Appūru-sama]

I always thought that Chris Tucker (Rush Hour, 5th Element, Friday) would be tonally a good English counterpart to Nozawa. He's got that naturally high range. It's an awful idea, just interesting. I'd really love to see what Peter Kelamis could have done with Goku throughout the series with the RIGHT direction like he had with the first 3 movies. Or Richard Ian Cox ::coughwherethefuckisoceankaicough::

To jump on the Goku circlejerk, Schemmel's Goku has improved x 1000% since season 3, there's absolutely NO denying. He's really good. However, he will never be a GREAT Goku.

Goku's a hick. A dimwit. But he's not slow, just gleefully ignorant. A grown jungle boy partially raised in the wild. But he's also always totally excited and charming as fuck. He believes he can do anything, and he's so likable that you believe he can too. Sean just doesn't understand this. Or at least he doesn't show this.

Sean gives Goku this unattractive dweebyness that I can't unhear. He adds this nasally quality to Goku, and constantly overpronounces and overenunciates his words, when Goku should be talking in slang (would it kill him to say "ain't" once in a while?).

Plus when he's fighting, he makes Goku sound...weak. And uncertain. Sean can scream amazing during power-ups. But when exchanging blows he makes him sound like he's struggling and having a lot of trouble, where Nozawa (and earlier Kelamis) let's Goku really rip and gives so much power and commitment to his punches and kicks.

But as an actor though, I really do respect Sean's improvements. He does well with what he has, and he absolutely commits. If only the dub had the proper translations, direction, and casting from the start... I wish 2015 FUNimation could have dubbed DBZ instead of 1999 FUNimation, but ironically 2015 FUNimation wouldn't have existed without DBZ as their first sacrificial cash cow from the start.

(let me conclude this critique with a big ol' disclaimer of I M H O)

[TheBlackPaladin]

Y'know, interestingly enough, there's a bit of debate over how accurate it is to brand Goku a "hick." He's definitely not intelligent, but the whole "hick" thing seems to be the result of both a rough US equivalency of his Japanese speech as well as a creative choice on the part of Masako Nozawa.

Now, when I say "debate," I do mean debate. To call him a hick is by no means completely uncalled for. However, it may not be 100% accurate either. There was a great thread on this a while back, with a native-born Japanese person saying that Goku's speech is closer to "Yakuza gangster." As you'll see in the thread of course, there were good reasons for believing that as well as good reasons for labeling him a hick. However, since it's debatable--and because literally no other dub, not even the super-faithful Latino Spanish dub, picked up on the hick aspect--I'm pretty relaxed about that. As long as he sounds generally stupid (which makes sense, he is brain-damaged from being dropped as a baby after all), that's good enough for me.

[Adamant]

But as an actor though, I really do respect Sean's improvements. He does well with what he has, and he absolutely commits. If only the dub had the proper translations, direction, and casting from the start...

He'd never have been allowed near a properly handled dub, though. He can improve all he wants, it's never going to change the fact that he's a miscast relic from an ancient, poorly done dub initially meant to play a completely misinterpreted near-parody of the character. It's not possible for him to go beyond "less bad than before"

[Appūru-sama]

Y'know, interestingly enough, there's a bit of debate over how accurate it is to brand Goku a "hick." He's definitely not intelligent, but the whole "hick" thing seems to be the result of both a rough US equivalency of his Japanese speech as well as a creative choice on the part of Masako Nozawa.

Now, when I say "debate," I do mean debate. To call him a hick is by no means completely uncalled for. However, it may not be 100% accurate either. There was a great thread on this a while back, with a native-born Japanese person saying that Goku's speech is closer to "Yakuza gangster." As you'll see in the thread of course, there were good reasons for believing that as well as good reasons for labeling him a hick. However, since it's debatable--and because literally no other dub, not even the super-faithful Latino Spanish dub, picked up on the hick aspect--I'm pretty relaxed about that. As long as he sounds generally stupid (which makes sense, he is brain-damaged from being dropped as a baby after all), that's good enough for me.

I don't mean Southern United States hick. For him to have an Alabama accent wouldn't make any sense because that's more a regional tic.

I mean he's a hick in the sense that he a country boy, uneducated and unsophisticated.

[Attitudefan]

But as an actor though, I really do respect Sean's improvements. He does well with what he has, and he absolutely commits. If only the dub had the proper translations, direction, and casting from the start...

He'd never have been allowed near a properly handled dub, though. He can improve all he wants, it's never going to change the fact that he's a miscast relic from an ancient, poorly done dub initially meant to play a completely misinterpreted near-parody of the character. It's not possible for him to go beyond "less bad than before"

EXACTLY! As an actor, he is good, but he is a miscasted Goku. Just like the other fella said, he is a good Goku but will never be great because of the miscast holding him back. He'll never fully understand who Goku is wihtout the old bias. It's why most of the modern FUNi cast still are relics of being imitations of the Ocean cast's interpretation of the characters.

Appuru never said he was a hick, but something that has a hickish quality. He talks in slang, not upper-class polite Japanese.

Plus when he's fighting, he makes Goku sound...weak. And uncertain. Sean can scream amazing during power-ups. But when exchanging blows he makes him sound like he's struggling and having a lot of trouble, where Nozawa (and earlier Kelamis) let's Goku really rip and gives so much power and commitment to his punches and kicks.

Exactly, and so many fandubbers or fan artists who dub Goku copy Schemmel!! WHY? Schemmel makes Goku do that weird "ugh ugh" grunts, where it sounds like he is struggling instead of powerfully doing yells from the stomach. One thing I'll always give Kelamis for is how he understood that in his portrayal: Kelamis always did those martial arts Kiai yells. Those yells are done to make a punch more powerful than if you don't do them.

Another thing is that Kelamis studied Nozawa before he did his performances. He had a deeper understanding of the character by studying the orignial portrayal by the makers of the anime (and Toei also had a slight influence on the manga, I'm sure). Schemmel will always have his original bias.

I viewed the World's Strongest film again, the Ocean version, and one thing the actors do is pronounce the names of moves or of characters in the Japanese way. Goku is pronounced with the short "u" sound, which Funimation has never done, to this day. When Wheelo screams "Damn you Goku!!" he pronounces it the Japanese way. I hear Ocean Kai is doing the same for Namek. The point here is how Schemmel and the rest of the Texas cast has their biases created from their original dub from 1999, and retain qualities of that such as pronounced words. There's a lack of respect, in that sense, to remind people that this show is a foreign show. I would hope if someone dubbed an American show, or a European show, they would respect pronunciation and details that it is still a dubbed foreign show.

That is why Schemmel will never be great as Goku. He improved, but he can never exceed as Goku. Ever. He's a remnant of Funimation's past in his current DB role.

He'd never have been allowed near a properly handled dub, though. He can improve all he wants, it's never going to change the fact that he's a miscast relic from an ancient, poorly done dub initially meant to play a completely misinterpreted near-parody of the character. It's not possible for him to go beyond "less bad than before"

Basically this.

I don't mean Southern United States hick. For him to have an Alabama accent wouldn't make any sense because that's more a regional tic.

I mean he's a hick in the sense that he a country boy, uneducated and unsophisticated.

He's a slang talker. Again, he doesn't speak formal/upper-class dialect of Japanese. Nor should he speak upper-class/educated English. Slang is seen as lower class or less educated. The Queen of England does not speak with slang. There is Royal English, and then there is the average folk English. Same kind of deal applies to North America.

Also, fun fact, but when the Emperor of Japan first addressed the people of Japan through radio, no one could understand him because he spoke such a royal, formal Japanese. It's not about speaking like being from Mississippi but someone who takes liberties with English (as the stereotype is that educated people, who are usually higher class, will speak with less slang as they have a wider range of vocabulary and understanding of said vocabulary).

Here's how Kelamis does his screaming. And his Kamehameha is much more powerful too.

[Appūru-sama]

Another thing is that Kelamis studied Nozawa before he did his performances. He had a deeper understanding of the character by studying the orignial portrayal by the makers of the anime (and Toei also had a slight influence on the manga, I'm sure). Schemmel will always have his original bias.

I viewed the World's Strongest film again, the Ocean version, and one thing the actors do is pronounce the names of moves or of characters in the Japanese way. Goku is pronounced with the short "u" sound, which Funimation has never done, to this day. When Wheelo screams "Damn you Goku!!" he pronounces it the Japanese way. I hear Ocean Kai is doing the same for Namek. The point here is how Schemmel and the rest of the Texas cast has their biases created from their original dub from 1999, and retain qualities of that such as pronounced words. There's a lack of respect, in that sense, to remind people that this show is a foreign show. I would hope if someone dubbed an American show, or a European show, they would respect pronunciation and details that it is still a dubbed foreign show.

Absolutely. After rewatching Ocean's World's Strongest there's no denying Kelamis MUST have studied Nozawa before stepping into the booth. UGH what could have been...

[TheBlackPaladin]

After rewatching World's Strongest now, Kelamis MUST have watched Nozawa before stepping into the booth. ...

Not before, but during. The technology behind anime dubbing has improved substantially over the years, but the basic process remains the same. An actor in a dub records their dialogue on a line-by-line basis, and before they record, they are played a "preview clip" of what the line they're going to be dubbing originally sounded like in Japanese. The purpose of this is two-fold: firstly so they can see the lip movements ahead of time and get a mental roadmap of sorts for the pace at which to deliver their lines, and secondly so that they can hear the original actor's delivery so they can get a feel for the emotional vibe they should be going for. So, right before each line he recorded, Kelamis was played preview clips of the original footage with the Japanese voice track (meaning Masako Nozawa, in his case).

It also didn't hurt that his director for that movie was Karl Willems, who is apparently one of the most well-regarded dubbing directors in Vancouver (he also directed the Death Note dub, generally considered to be stellar). Directors are often either the unsung hero or the unsung villain of a dub. During the dubbing process, the only things the actors actually see are the parts they're dubbing, they don't see anything else. Not even scenes with their character that have no dialogue. So it's up to the director to quickly-but-fully fill them in on the context. Willems has a reputation for being great at this, whereas Barry Watson (who directed a lot of the TV series during both the "Ocean dub" era and FUNimation's in-house era) was reportedly not the greatest director. He's been described as a very nice guy who meant well, but often was unsure of what to do. Schemmel in particular loves to imitate Watson at conventions wherever possible, saying that his direction was often just, "Now remember, there's a lot of stakes here, high stakes," and that he sounded unsure of himself when talking about plot details.

In his defense, this was before the internet, which Chris Sabat has said is the greatest gift he's ever received as a director. Before that, the writers and directors of dubs learned about the content of what they were dubbing as the process was going along, not ahead of time.

In any event, they still used preview clips when FUNimation switched to an in-house cast, but as discussed earlier, they had to use the Mexican dub's dubbing materials at that point, meaning that Schemmel was hearing preview clips featuring Mario Castaneda, not Masako Nozawa. I wonder if that affected his performance, as Castaneda had--and has--a pretty deep voice.

[Appūru-sama]

And after watching this interview for Resurrection F of Sean Schemmel, I can't help but cringe:

"I rarely let Masako affect my performance."

"I didn't take one cue from Masako for Battle of Gods."

"For what we do in Amercia, it's OUR show. We gotta make it our own."

The EGO on him lol...he's actually proud to be ignorant. No it's not YOUR show fool. It's not a remake or reboot where you have carte-blanche to play the character however you feel.

You're dubbing the original production made by how it's creators saw fit (Akira Toriyama chose the principal cast) into your regions language. Obviously there's some creative freedom sure, but the fact that he completely disregards all this for his precious "actor creativity" or lack there of blows my mind.

[TheBlackPaladin]

And after watching this interview for Resurrection F of Sean Schemmel, I can't help but cringe:

"I rarely let Masako affect my performance."

"I didn't take one cue from Masako for Battle of Gods."

"For what we do in Amercia, it's OUR show. We gotta make it our own."

The EGO on him lol...he's actually proud to be ignorant. No it's not YOUR show fool. It's not a remake or reboot where you have carte-blanche to play the character however you feel.

You're dubbing the original production made by how it's creators saw fit (Akira Toriyama chose the principal cast) into your regions language. Obviously there's some creative freedom sure, but the fact that he completely disregards all this for his precious "actor creativity" or lack there of blows my mind.

I can see how you'd think that based on how he worded those answers, but a critical sentence was left out here:

"I rarely let Masako affect my performance not because I don't respect her, but because Japanese is a different language, different inflections, it does not jive in English hardly at all...I definitely appreciate it, but I have to own the character for what I'm doing for English-speaking audiences."

So it's not an "I'm better than her," thing, it's a "Her language is very different, so it's hard for me to take exact cues and put them into a language that's so very different in virtually every respect" thing.

[Appūru-sama]

And after watching this interview for Resurrection F of Sean Schemmel, I can't help but cringe:

"I rarely let Masako affect my performance."

"I didn't take one cue from Masako for Battle of Gods."

"For what we do in Amercia, it's OUR show. We gotta make it our own."

The EGO on him lol...he's actually proud to be ignorant. No it's not YOUR show fool. It's not a remake or reboot where you have carte-blanche to play the character however you feel.

You're dubbing the original production made by how it's creators saw fit (Akira Toriyama chose the principal cast) into your regions language. Obviously there's some creative freedom sure, but the fact that he completely disregards all this for his precious "actor creativity" or lack there of blows my mind.

I can see how you'd think that based on how he worded those answers, but a critical sentence was left out here:

"I rarely let Masako affect my performance not because I don't respect her, but because Japanese is a different language, different inflections, it does not jive in English hardly at all...I definitely appreciate it, but I have to own the character for what I'm doing for English-speaking audiences."

So it's not an "I'm better than her," thing, it's a "Her language is very different, so it's hard for me to take exact cues and put them into a language that's so very different in virtually every respect" thing.

I didn't include it because it's a total cop-out. He doesn't even attempt to because..."it's a different language"? Bullshit. They're are TONS of faithful dubs and actors that prove the contrary. (I just linked one in my last post.)

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well don't get me wrong, if you don't like his performance, you don't like his performance, and that's perfectly fine. The problem of it being a different language, though, is not a cop-out at all, it's a very legitimate obstacle in the dubbing process.

Creative interpretation plays a big role when you're dealing with something that was originally in another language. Even when it comes to subtitles. For example, it was the choice of Steve Simmons to give Goku his hick-sounding dialogue, as well as throwing in the word "ain't" with relative frequency. It's not a literal translation of what Goku said, but it's a translation with some creative liberties that captures the essence of the character in the English language.

If you're not super-fluent in Japanese, those preview clips they play you only help in the most general sense, and it's up to the director at that point to fine-tune the performance to something that captures the same emotion, but in the new language. Masako Nozawa is a great actress, but preview clips of her delivery can't fully serve as complete, detailed direction to an actor on how to deliver a line in a completely different language. It certainly helps and, indeed, is necessary for the dubbing process, but it can't take the place of another human being in the director's chair, and in a dubbing session, that's ultimately who the actor is responsible to.

[NitroEX]

He was the first of the actors to succeed in making Goku sound dull-witted and more like a man child which is something I don't think Schemmel pulls off that well

Sure, the character was characterized different, but that doesn't make the acting good. He's just plain awful. The unnatural rythms of his delivery ruin whatever good attributes he gave Goku. Schemmel just needed a better director and script in the early going but he definitely has the dumb Goku part down.

I always saw that as a believable aspect of Goku's character. He's a guy who was hit on the head as a baby, spent a significant part of his life living in the woods with nobody to talk to and, being a fighter all his life, has taken many more hits to the head. His whole charm is that he's not the brightest guy around yet he happens to be a prodigy at fighting. I just don't see a guy like that talking as eloquently as Schemmel. Honestly a more unusual speech pattern is perfectly fine with me and if anything it adds a certain level of vulnerability to his character that wasn't there before.

Also I'm not convinced by Schemmel's Goku when it comes to being dumb. His Goku always came of as more of a class clown who was in on the joke rather than a guy who's oblivious to being funny in the first place. I thought he did a good job during certain moments of movie 8 like the parent interview and the scene afterwards when talking to King Kai but other than that I'm struggling to think of a time he did it right. The way he speaks just doesn't sound at all like a dumb person so it's hard for me not to hear him as a guy who's just playing around most of the time.

He could've if he could act. His Goku was never commanding, it always came off like he was trying to act tough. I think it's movie 3, but his line reading on "Why have you come here?" is laughably bad. You are attributing way too much of Goku's characterization to Schemmel when the real culprit were the directors, writers, and producers.

Well firstly, Kelamis wasn't around long enough to showcase his commanding tone during the Saban era but it was certainly there in his Westwood dubbing years. The only time I recall him showing it during the Saban episodes was specifically the line "I know the odds are against me but if there's a way to win I'm gonna find it!" Aside from that line I thought he had a commanding tone of voice during Goku's encounter with Imperfect Cell as well as the episode where he wakes up from the heart virus and tells Roshi his plans to ascend to the next level. Basically my point was kelamis was clearly capable of both ends of the spectrum, he portrayed him as both innocent/naive as well as serious and commanding when needed.

Also in regards to the line you mentioned sounding awkward, How do you know Kelamis wasn't directed to give the line that way? You put an awful lot of blame on him for the little work he did yet give Schemmel a get out of jail free card for any and all mistakes. I get that Schemmel had to take orders from the higher ups but so did Kelamis.

I firmly believe Kelamis would have grown into just as great of an actor, if not better than Schemmel if he'd been given the same 10-15 years to grow into the role. Obviously due to the way things played out we'll never know for sure but I felt he had a certain level of understanding for the character that Schemmel never got until recently, on top of that he had the natural ability and range to pull off a performance that was closer in spirit to Nozawa's. Whether you like that style of performance or not I think ultimately it would have been the most appropriate and respectful direction to take the character as opposed to what we ended up with.

[Kakacarrottop]

He could've if he could act. His Goku was never commanding, it always came off like he was trying to act tough. I think it's movie 3, but his line reading on "Why have you come here?" is laughably bad. You are attributing way too much of Goku's characterization to Schemmel when the real culprit were the directors, writers, and producers.

Schemmel has probably had as much creative control over the character as someone like Nozawa. Certainly much more than Peter Kelamis or Ian Corlett ever did.

And i agree at times Kelamis's delivery was horrible and cringe worthy. Like here (as you mentioned) and here. Although to be fair he had only been in the role for a couple of months and was part of a mishandled production, i'm sure Schemmel had even worse deliveries from 1999 (although they've been erased from memory due to FUNi's George Lucasing of their in-house dub)

[NitroEX]

The first line could have been said differently for sure but I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be (certainly not as bad as some of '99 Schemmel's lines).

As for the second one that was the fault of the scriptwriters, not Kelamis' delivery of it. Goku was clearly meant to be yelling something there but his comeback was poorly written for him. Do you honestly think Schemmel could have salvaged that line or said it any better? I don't think so. The Funi dub of that movie changed the line altogether.

For the dubbing standards of 1998 he did a good job imho and it was certainly better than what followed him a year later.

[Attitudefan]

And after watching this interview for Resurrection F of Sean Schemmel, I can't help but cringe:

"I rarely let Masako affect my performance."

"I didn't take one cue from Masako for Battle of Gods."

"For what we do in Amercia, it's OUR show. We gotta make it our own."

The EGO on him lol...he's actually proud to be ignorant. No it's not YOUR show fool. It's not a remake or reboot where you have carte-blanche to play the character however you feel.

You're dubbing the original production made by how it's creators saw fit (Akira Toriyama chose the principal cast) into your regions language. Obviously there's some creative freedom sure, but the fact that he completely disregards all this for his precious "actor creativity" or lack there of blows my mind.

My point exactly, Schemmel is jaded to his own views of the show (because of how he began and who he thinks Goku is). You can clearly see him as a better actor, but his portrayal is not really all that different.

The first line could have been said differently for sure but I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be (certainly not as bad as some of '99 Schemmel's lines).

As for the second one that was the fault of the scriptwriters, not Kelamis' delivery of it. Goku was clearly meant to be yelling something there but his comeback was poorly written for him. Do you honestly think Schemmel could have salvaged that line or said it any better? I don't think so. The Funi dub of that movie changed the line altogether.

For the dubbing standards of 1998 he did a good job imho and it was certainly better than what followed him a year later.

I find it funny that people seem to be on Ocean actors' cases when they were literally given a short notice on the characters yet deliver a fairly accurate performance, especially when we consider the films. Yet, Schemmel is compared differently, where people prefer to compare his 10 plus years as Goku in Kai with Kelamis or Corlett. That actually shows how much better they were with only a few months as Goku.

Schemmel has probably had as much creative control over the character as someone like Nozawa. Certainly much more than Peter Kelamis or Ian Corlett ever did.

Definitely. He's also buddies with the director, Sabat. He's also a FUNi employee for life.

And i agree at times Kelamis's delivery was horrible and cringe worthy. Like here (as you mentioned) and here. Although to be fair he had only been in the role for a couple of months and was part of a mishandled production, i'm sure Schemmel had even worse deliveries from 1999 (although they've been erased from memory due to FUNi's George Lucasing of their in-house dub)

Yet, blame the directors. They told Kelamis to perform with emphasis here or there. And the script can be a problem. Yet, when we get something like DBZ 1999 or Kai 2009, it's okay when an actor messes up his lines because it's who we had for 10 years? How fair is it to criticize guys who were thrown into the role and left just as quickly, not because of their acting, but because FUNi was too cheap.

Also I'm not convinced by Schemmel's Goku when it comes to being dumb. His Goku always came of as more of a class clown who was in on the joke rather than a guy who's oblivious to being funny in the first place.

And this is what Schemmel thinks Goku is. He doesn't know Goku. He doesn't even like the Japanese Goku. He only has that authority because he is in bed with FUNi and Sabat.

Well firstly, Kelamis wasn't around long enough to showcase his commanding tone during the Saban era but it was certainly there in his Westwood dubbing years... Basically my point was kelamis was clearly capable of both ends of the spectrum, he portrayed him as both innocent/naive as well as serious and commanding when needed.

Yup.

Also in regards to the line you mentioned sounding awkward, How do you know Kelamis wasn't directed to give the line that way? You put an awful lot of blame on him for the little work he did yet give Schemmel a get out of jail free card for any and all mistakes. I get that Schemmel had to take orders from the higher ups but so did Kelamis.

I firmly believe Kelamis would have grown into just as great of an actor, if not better than Schemmel if he'd been given the same 10-15 years to grow into the role.

And yet, within a year, Kelamis understood Goku better than Schemmel ever has (and Kelamis was sourced the ORIGINAL to reference).


And yes, voices can be as close to possible from language to language; Hollywood does it all the time in international dubbing. Did you know Goldfinger's voice was completely dubbed because the actor spoke no English in James Bond? He still sounded like his German counterpart!

I didn't include it because it's a total cop-out. He doesn't even attempt to because..."it's a different language"? Bullshit. They're are TONS of faithful dubs and actors that prove the contrary. (I just linked one in my last post.)

In terms of anime, see Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, and Black Lagoon. These are nearly identical (if not better) than the original! The characters all sound in the same vein as the original actors. Dubbing is usually trying to capture that same vein and translate it (with a bit of freedom from actors takes on the characters). But it wants to be faithful to the artists who created the show in the first place. What Schemmel and Sabat have done was not only insult the original artists (Toriyama, the voice actors, and the employees at Toei), they have also insulted the original English cast from Canada, where Sabat has taken credit for Brian Drummond's performances and famous lines ("over 9000"). I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF FUNIMATION HAD SOME SAY IN PREVENTING THE ALTERNATE ENGLISH DUB OF KAI from being released. Schemmel knew about it and insulted his contemporaries and predecessors. He was not fond of it, and I'm sure FUNi got in the ear of Toei and has prevented its release in the public (the one who benefits the most is not Toei in this scenario, it's FUNi and their distribution rights in the UK and Canada; they have been dying to get into the UK market, and they finally have where the Ocean actors seem to have understood that they were supposed to get their version in the UK. Lee Tokar posted on Twitter just before Kai debuted in the UK that his voice will finally be heard, and wasn't).

Thank FUNi for the version you have because it is neither accurate nor is it good. Kai might have a good script, but their performances are nothing like the characters in the original. Nothing. Thank them for not having multiple versions too. Having competition causes people to do their best, and here they have a monopoly over English DB. It could be better, but they made sure it isn't.

[KameRule]

In terms of anime, see Death Note, Cowboy Bebop, and Black Lagoon. These are nearly identical (if not better) than the original! The characters all sound in the same vein as the original actors. Dubbing is usually trying to capture that same vein and translate it (with a bit of freedom from actors takes on the characters). But it wants to be faithful to the artists who created the show in the first place. What Schemmel and Sabat have done was not only insult the original artists (Toriyama, the voice actors, and the employees at Toei), they have also insulted the original English cast from Canada, where Sabat has taken credit for Brian Drummond's performances and famous lines ("over 9000"). I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF FUNIMATION HAD SOME SAY IN PREVENTING THE ALTERNATE ENGLISH DUB OF KAI from being released. Schemmel knew about it and insulted his contemporaries and predecessors. He was not fond of it, and I'm sure FUNi got in the ear of Toei and has prevented its release in the public (the one who benefits the most is not Toei in this scenario, it's FUNi and their distribution rights in the UK and Canada; they have been dying to get into the UK market, and they finally have where the Ocean actors seem to have understood that they were supposed to get their version in the UK. Lee Tokar posted on Twitter just before Kai debuted in the UK that his voice will finally be heard, and wasn't).

Thank FUNi for the version you have because it is neither accurate nor is it good. Kai might have a good script, but their performances are nothing like the characters in the original. Nothing. Thank them for not having multiple versions too. Having competition causes people to do their best, and here they have a monopoly over English DB. It could be better, but they made sure it isn't.

Well, I'm not so sure. I mean, in different languages, different tones and emphasis mean different things, and if you try to match the tone of a foreign show exactly, there's going to be this strange, cultural disconnect; which is fine if you're a seasoned viewer of media in that language (who'd probably be watching it in the original language with subtitles to begin with), but for everyone else, it seems quite strange.

I'm not even talking about things like honorifics (which I personally prefer to be retained, but whatever). I remember watching this one episode of Game Exchange which addressed the localisation of Metroid: Other M, and he came to the point of Samus' monotonous, and lifeless tone. He said that in Japan, this kind of stoic tone is supposed to imply someone's power and mental strength, but it isn't apparent when replicated in the English language. I'm not saying that actors shouldn't take cues from the original actors; they most certainly should, and I'd really like an English cast that brings the original voices to mind, but what's more important is understanding character traits and ideas, and presenting them in a way that is naturally understandable to speakers of another language.

[ABED]

little work he did yet give Schemmel a get out of jail free card for any and all mistakes.

I like Schemmel's work by and large, I never liked Kelamis. I'm aware of Schemmel's faults (e.g. the dump Kamehameha), but Kelamis was so bad, even at his best, that a green Schemmel was like fresh air to the oxygen deprived.

As to the person that claimed Schemmel was being arrogant when he essentially just said "we have to make it our own", that's not arrogance. I love Nozawa as much as the next person, but she isn't the only valid interpretation of Goku. Schemmel is right, you have to make a role your own, or else it's just a pale imitation. Look no further than the season 3 dub, or Routh as Superman.

It's not possible for him to go beyond "less bad than before"

Except that he did, and he wasn't miscast, he was misdirected and the character was badly written.

Goku's a hick. A dimwit. But he's not slow, just gleefully ignorant. A grown jungle boy partially raised in the wild. But he's also always totally excited and charming as fuck. He believes he can do anything, and he's so likable that you believe he can too. Sean just doesn't understand this. Or at least he doesn't show this.

Sean has a lot of this, his Goku is sufficiently dumb, he's enthusiastic, perhaps his not hick enough, but that's down to the writing and directing.

That is why Schemmel will never be great as Goku. He improved, but he can never exceed as Goku. Ever. He's a remnant of Funimation's past in his current DB role.

In other words, he didn't copy another actor? Kelamis can study another actor all he wants, but it doesn't show at all in his work. He's not believable in his delivery.

And yet, within a year, Kelamis understood Goku better than Schemmel ever has

When?

And this is what Schemmel thinks Goku is. He doesn't even like the Japanese Goku.

No, it's like you are latching on to anyone who says something remotely bad about Schemmel. What specifically can you point to and say that it comes across as someone trying to be a class clown instead of just dumb? Class clowns are self-aware, Goku is simply not all that smart. I've seen the dub a lot and I can't think of anything that would make me think he's performing it as a guy that's playing stupid for effect. You throw out this "it's who he thinks Goku is" when you can easily find Schemmel talk about Goku in his own words. He's well aware of Goku's lack of intelligence. Your last sentence shows a lot of ignorance, he's shown plenty of respect for Nozawa and her performance. In Q and A's he's had nothing but great things to say about Nozawa and her performance.

I think some people are so mired in the idea that Goku should sound like the original that they can't think any other way is valid. Nozawa herself is also giving her interpretation by the way. Going a different direction isn't disrespectful, it's the sensible thing to do.

Did you know Goldfinger's voice was completely dubbed because the actor spoke no English in James Bond? He still sounded like his German counterpart!

Yes, as a big Bond fan I did know that. Difference is that the voice has to seem like it could come out of that person's body. With a drawing, you aren't as limited.

I always saw that as a believable aspect of Goku's character. He's a guy who was hit on the head as a baby, spent a significant part of his life living in the woods with nobody to talk to and, being a fighter all his life, has taken many more hits to the head. His whole charm is that he's not the brightest guy around yet he happens to be a prodigy at fighting. I just don't see a guy like that talking as eloquently as Schemmel. Honestly a more unusual speech pattern is perfectly fine with me and if anything it adds a certain level of vulnerability to his character that wasn't there before.

But it's not believably delivered, and DB isn't a world where people feel the ill effects of brain damage and concussions. the speech pattern Kelamis gave had nothing to do with that, it was him trying to sound goofy and it came across as TRYING and ACTING, not being. Kelamis was plenty "eloquent" as well. The unusual speech pattern is simply a bad acting choice.

[90sDBZ]

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF FUNIMATION HAD SOME SAY IN PREVENTING THE ALTERNATE ENGLISH DUB OF KAI[/b] from being released. Schemmel knew about it and insulted his contemporaries and predecessors. He was not fond of it, and I'm sure FUNi got in the ear of Toei and has prevented its release in the public (the one who benefits the most is not Toei in this scenario, it's FUNi and their distribution rights in the UK and Canada; they have been dying to get into the UK market, and they finally have where the Ocean actors seem to have understood that they were supposed to get their version in the UK. Lee Tokar posted on Twitter just before Kai debuted in the UK that his voice will finally be heard, and wasn't).

Thank FUNi for the version you have because it is neither accurate nor is it good. Kai might have a good script, but their performances are nothing like the characters in the original. Nothing. Thank them for not having multiple versions too. Having competition causes people to do their best, and here they have a monopoly over English DB. It could be better, but they made sure it isn't.

You seem to be jumping to several conclusions over Ocean Kai. You're outright blaming Funimation for it not being released yet when there's nothing to even suggest that. Toei were the ones who'd have to have given permission for Ocean Kai to be made in the first place, so I can't see them cancelling it just because Funimation says so.

And as a UK fan I'm incredibly grateful we got Funimation's dub for Kai. After enduring the Westwood dub all those years ago I'd rather not have a potentially rushed, low quality dub be our main version. People talk about Ocean Kai as if it's definitely superior to Funi's version, despite not seeing a single clip of it and several members of the old cast not even being a part of it. For all we've got to go by it seems like its been made as a TV exclusive dub, much like the trainwreck that was the Westwood Z dub. The vast majority of people who watch Funimation's dub of Kai are perfectly happy with it, so why force a questionable alternate version on the UK audience yet again? Ocean Kai should be given a home release so it can be enjoyed for the curious niche it is, not needlessly forced on the mainstream audience.

[TheBlackPaladin]

What Schemmel and Sabat have done was not only insult the original artists (Toriyama, the voice actors, and the employees at Toei), they have also insulted the original English cast from Canada, where Sabat has taken credit for Brian Drummond's performances and famous lines ("over 9000"). I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF FUNIMATION HAD SOME SAY IN PREVENTING THE ALTERNATE ENGLISH DUB OF KAI from being released. Schemmel knew about it and insulted his contemporaries and predecessors. He was not fond of it, and I'm sure FUNi got in the ear of Toei and has prevented its release in the public (the one who benefits the most is not Toei in this scenario, it's FUNi and their distribution rights in the UK and Canada; they have been dying to get into the UK market, and they finally have where the Ocean actors seem to have understood that they were supposed to get their version in the UK. Lee Tokar posted on Twitter just before Kai debuted in the UK that his voice will finally be heard, and wasn't).

I too very much want to see the Ocean dub of Kai. However, there are a number of misconceptions that need to be cleared up.

-The reason we don't have Ocean Kai yet is because there isn't a Canadian TV network interested in airing it. Or rather, a very credible rumor has suggested that multiple attempts have been made for several years now to get a Canadian TV network to air it, as it's all finished and ready to air (with the possible exception of the Buu arc), but no Canadian TV network is interested. Apparently they even went to one particular network at least three times, being turned down every single time. It's the harsh reality of anime not being as big a deal as it once was.

-Sabat, to my knowledge, has never taken credit for the "It's over 9000" line. He has said it, yes, because he plays the same character as Drummond, and it's only logical that fans would want to hear Vegeta's voice actors say it. He has never claimed to be the one who "created" that line though. Actually, at one con he said he'd love to meet Brian Drummond.

-Schemmel has never insulted the Ocean cast. Quite the contrary, he has said nothing but good things about them and said that he was trying very actively to mimic Peter Kelamis when he first took over. The closest he came to insulting the Ocean dub was when he said he believed the Ocean dub of Kai would suck, but he specifically noted that it would not be because of the actors. He said that he believed it would suck due to the replacement score and, apparently, even replacement SFX.

-Lee Tokar's posts on Twitter were based on a misunderstanding on his part. He saw all the tweets that Toonami was making about airing Dragon Ball Z Kai and, innocently not understanding the complicated situation, assumed they were talking about the Ocean dub. They never were, though. Can't say I blame him, but the point is he made that tweet based on an innocent misunderstanding, not based on something he was told.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

-The reason we don't have Ocean Kai yet is because there isn't a Canadian TV network interested in airing it.

Well that explains everything. I did not think Ocean had backed off it.