New Animation VS Old Animation

[Noah]

I'm not saying the Super skin tone is accurate, I'm saying that the correction is too bright and pink. It was never that bright, even in the Orange Brick shot I posted.

Ideally, it should be like this:

Spoiler:

Goku looks quite handsome in this edit (no homo)

but you change his facial expressions he should look pretty determined to go training not just "allright, let's train"

[VintageSaiyan]

Piccolo performing his special attacks in RoF is all you really need to see to make a judgement on the new animation. God awful.

No worse than the first three television series. Assigning shots to bad animators will produce a bad work no matter the era.

Except, it was worse. Especially when you factor that this was a theatrical fucking release.

[Lord Beerus]

Piccolo performing his special attacks in RoF is all you really need to see to make a judgement on the new animation. God awful.

No worse than the first three television series. Assigning shots to bad animators will produce a bad work no matter the era.

Except, it was worse. Especially when you factor that this was a theatrical fucking release.

Previous DBZ movies have had bad animation. Movie 6 comes to mind.

[SSJ Human]

They both have good and bad moments.

[SSJ Human]

Accidental double post. Oops.

[LordCrumb]

I'm not saying the Super skin tone is accurate, I'm saying that the correction is too bright and pink. It was never that bright, even in the Orange Brick shot I posted.

Ideally, it should be like this:

Spoiler:

Goku is quite handsome in this edit (no homo)

but you change his facial expressions he should look pretty determined to go training not just "allright, let's train"

wtf? are you really that worried someone on the internet might think you're a 'homo', that you felt necessary to add 'no homo' to your post?

Men can recognize a handsome man without being homosexual. Fear not buddy.

[TheAldella]

I'm not saying the Super skin tone is accurate, I'm saying that the correction is too bright and pink. It was never that bright, even in the Orange Brick shot I posted.

Ideally, it should be like this:

Spoiler:

Goku is quite handsome in this edit (no homo)

but you change his facial expressions he should look pretty determined to go training not just "allright, let's train"

wtf? are you really that worried someone on the internet might think you're a 'homo', that you felt necessary to add 'no homo' to your post?

I'm....pretty sure that was a joke, friend.

[rereboy]

wtf? are you really that worried someone on the internet might think you're a 'homo', that you felt necessary to add 'no homo' to your post?

Men can recognize a handsome man without being homosexual. Fear not buddy.

Men can also recognize a joke and the need to not overreact to them.

[Cursemark505]

Piccolo performing his special attacks in RoF is all you really need to see to make a judgement on the new animation. God awful.

No worse than the first three television series. Assigning shots to bad animators will produce a bad work no matter the era.

Except, it was worse. Especially when you factor that this was a theatrical fucking release.

You're overexaggerating to an absurd degree.

[VintageSaiyan]

Previous DBZ movies have had bad animation. Movie 6 comes to mind.

You're picking 1 movie out of what is it, 13? Movie 6 had it's awkward moments, but it's still better than than BoG and RoF. You can even single out Piccolo's fight from both movies and you'd be lying through your teeth if you said RoF's was better. Not to mention Movie 6 wasn't made to revive & reestablish the franchise.

You're overexaggerating to an absurd degree.

I'm not. It's worse - it just reeks of laziness. It's "Oh, well everybody knows it's Dragonball so we don't have to try so hard."

[Cursemark505]

'm not. It's worse - it just reeks of laziness.

BoG and RoF at their best looks better than any of those movies at their best.
You say you're not exaggerating yet you claimed that they're godawful in terms of animation. That's not only absolutely ridiculous but horrendously fallacious.
You're right in claiming that Piccolo's Makankosappo wasn't spectacularly animated in RoF, but that's just one miniscule scene. You claim that this is enough to judge everything but these movies have had various animators working on them. That doesn't work.
Judging from your previous comments, all you like to do is complain and nitpick at everything. You don't seem to know what good or decent animation even is.
You're not even providing sufficient evidence to support your claims. You're basically just saying "it sucks".
Do yourself a favour and stop watching anything Dragon ball related that was animated in recent years if you're so bent on hating everything.

[MrWalnut4]

Ok, if we're just going to go back and forth endlessly about how horrible or not the new movies animation are, comparing clips or screenshots would serve an argument far better than just saying, "it sucks."

[Ajay]

VintageSaiyan,

Piccolo's Makankosappo scene is terrible, I agree, but JulieYBM isn't wrong. It's no different to any other bad cuts we had back in the day. However, I don't see how that's an all indicative of the film's animation quality on the whole. To dismiss it based on one janky scene seems strange, if not very silly. There are many scenes throughout the rest of the movie that are equally as good as the best bits of the older outings. Perhaps not in terms of framing (Yamamuro's storyboarding is notoriously bad these days), but on a sheer animation level, many are a vast improvement. In particular, Goku's first little bout with Freeza pre-transformation features some wonderful looking stuff; very intricately animated hand-to-hand combat and detailed movement.

It's a bit silly to think that Battle of Gods didn't feature scenes significantly better than what came before. You only have to take one look at Shida's famous cut to understand that much. That's best bit of animation this franchise has ever seen, and while you can argue back and forth about whether it fits the series, on a technical level, it's phenomenal. The older movies' strong points were that they were consistently on-model, but that doesn't speak much to their animation quality; they were just as inconsistent as the TV series. Both have great moments, but like any piece of animation, they best animators are reserved for the most important moments. You can't just pick one insignificant scene and ignore the best parts of the important ones.

Both the TV series and films all feature battles like this, but you wouldn't look at that and decide everything else was bad, would you? If you did, you'd be ignoring great stuff like Yamamuro's work on the Goku vs Vegeta fight. That's the very same man heading Fukkatsu no F! What you see in the film might feature uglier character designs and some mediocre framing, but on a pure animation level, it's the same if not occasionally better.

It's fine to criticise the animation, but don't make sweeping statements that simply don't hold water. You have every right to an opinion, but the technicalities of animation are easily measurable, and I'm afraid what you're saying just doesn't line up with fact. If we were talking about the overall aesthetic (character designs, colouring, backgrounds), I'd be right there with you, but we're talking about the quality of movement as a whole, so I have to vehemently disagree.

[VintageSaiyan]

'm not. It's worse - it just reeks of laziness.

BoG and RoF at their best looks better than any of those movies at their best.
You say you're not exaggerating yet you claimed that they're godawful in terms of animation. That's not only absolutely ridiculous but horrendously fallacious.
You're right in claiming that Piccolo's Makankosappo wasn't spectacularly animated in RoF, but that's just one miniscule scene. You claim that this is enough to judge everything but these movies have had various animators working on them. That doesn't work.
Judging from your previous comments, all you like to do is complain and nitpick at everything. You don't seem to know what good or decent animation even is.
You're not even providing sufficient evidence to support your claims. You're basically just saying "it sucks".
Do yourself a favour and stop watching anything Dragon ball related that was animated in recent years if you're so bent on hating everything.

Maybe you should do yourself a favor and not just rewatch the original series, but watch others where studios actually put in time and effort into their production. I'm not nitpicking when as a whole the entire thing looks horrendous. People seem to think crazy cliche "anime" angles makes for good animation - it does not. If it were just a few scenes then you'd have some credibility in telling me I'm nitpicking, unfortunately anything to come out from the dragonball franchise in the past 5 years has been uninspired and lazy. I remember being afraid that if they ever reanimated or even got DBZ a new series, they would go the route of the Budokai intros. I'd counter that I'm one of the few on here that isn't blinded by nostalgia like so many people and that we deserve better than some cheap cash in on the franchise.

Piccolo's Makankosappo scene is terrible, I agree, but JulieYBM isn't wrong. It's no different to any other bad cuts we had back in the day. However, I don't see how that's an all indicative of the film's animation quality on the whole. To dismiss it based on one janky scene seems strange, if not very silly. There are many scenes throughout the rest of the movie that are equally as good as the best bits of the older outings. Perhaps not in terms of framing (Yamamuro's storyboarding is notoriously bad these days), but on a sheer animation level, many are a vast improvement. In particular, Goku's first little bout with Freeza pre-transformation features some wonderful looking stuff; very intricately animated hand-to-hand combat, and detailed movement.

It's a bit silly to think that Battle of Gods didn't feature scenes significantly better than what came before. You only have to take one look at Shida's famous cut to understand that much. That's best bit of animation this franchise has ever seen, and while you can argue back and forth about whether it fits the series, on a technical level, it's phenomenal. The older movies' strong points were that they were consistently on-model, but that doesn't speak much to their animation quality; they were just as inconsistent as the TV series. Both have great moments, but like any piece of animation, they best animators are reserved for the most important moments. You can't just pick one insignificant scene and ignore the best parts of the important ones.

Both the TV series and films all feature battles like this, but you wouldn't look at that and decide everything else was bad, would you? If you did, you'd be ignoring great stuff like Yamamuro's work on the Goku vs Vegeta fight. That's the very same man heading Fukkatsu no F! What you see in the film might feature uglier character designs and some mediocre framing, but on a pure animation level, it's the same if not occasionally better.

It's fine to criticise the animation, but don't make sweeping statements that simply don't hold water. You have every right to an opinion, but the technicalities of animation are easily measurable, and I'm afraid what you're saying just doesn't line up with fact. If we were talking about the overall aesthetic (character designs, colouring, backgrounds), I'd be right there with you, but we're talking about the quality of movement as a whole, so I have to vehemently disagree.

Shida's cut was nothing more than a glorified music video. Just because it looks pretty sometimes doesn't mean it's well executed - that sequence did really little if anything to add to the battle and looked as if it belonged in an intro. There were some Goku vs Frieza moments I like in RoF, but again as a whole I am sorely disappointed.

Yamamuro's work on Goku Vs Vegeta was one of my favorites, shame it didn't translate here.

[VegettoEX]

Maybe you should do yourself a favor

This kind of backhanded talk is not welcome here. You clearly have things to say - if you can find a better way to say it, you might get a better discussion out of people.

[VintageSaiyan]

Maybe you should do yourself a favor

This kind of backhanded talk is not welcome here. You clearly have things to say - if you can find a better way to say it, you might get a better discussion out of people.

Do yourself a favour and stop watching anything Dragon ball related

[VegettoEX]

If you want to report someone's post, please use the built-in tools to do so.

Look, I'm giving out freebies here. The next step is account strikes being given out. Trust me when I say that no-one should want these.

[Noah]

wtf? are you really that worried someone on the internet might think you're a 'homo', that you felt necessary to add 'no homo' to your post?

Men can recognize a handsome man without being homosexual. Fear not buddy.

Oh I lol'd that you take that so seriously

This basically answers:

I'm....pretty sure that was a joke, friend.

[JulieYBM]

I've never been particularly impressed by anything from the older films, although I should mention I've not seen the eleventh Dragon Ball Z film or the tenth anniversary film. The television series always seemed to get the better crop of directing and animation, most particularly in Hisada Kazuya's sparring scene from Dragon Ball Z #166. Hisada is no longer quite the animator he used to be, so it isn't like he could return to put in a good fight scene, though.

Dragon Ball Super on the whole isn't going to look as good as Dragon Ball Z did, there's less talent, time and money available. The directing has definitely been better so far, at least. Toei Animation seems pretty reluctant to schedule ahead of time and get episodes finished, let alone staffed by talented animators. Episode #2 had Tate Naoki and Hayashi Yuuki working on it but neither clearly had time or money to put any exciting action scenes together. There's definitely potential here, but it's clear that without some smart directing and scheduling we're not going to get very far. Truth be told, I wish Episodes #1-3 had been cannibalized for Episode #5, cut the drawings to lower than the average 3,000 and save Nakatsuru, Urata, Tate and Hayashi for Episode #5 so they could do Gokuu's first fight with Beers using a higher number of sheets.

EDIT: Something to keep in mind: animation is first and foremost a medium for dramatized storytelling. Movement isn't the only way to convey an idea.

[Cursemark505]

Maybe you should do yourself a favor

The particular sentence I wrote, in which this is written in response to, was only meant to be a helpful suggestion. You wrote this with the intention of being rude. Not appreciated.

rewatch the original series, but watch others where studios actually put in time and effort into their production. I'm not nitpicking when as a whole the entire thing looks horrendous

As I mentioned before you aren't proving a single one of your claims. You're not elaborating on anything like Ajay is doing. What you're doing is just akin smack talking.

People seem to think crazy cliche "anime" angles makes for good animation - it does not.

What do angles have to do with what we're referring to?

I'd counter that I'm one of the few on here that isn't blinded by nostalgia

Nostalgia is not a factor in this argument.
You're arguing from an opinionated and emotional standpoint. Not factual.