Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

What did everyone think of my power levels? Lol?

You bloat to much. Cell doesn't have to be over 5 times stronger after absorbing the humans for Pete's sake.

[h0kuten]

What did everyone think of my power levels? Lol?

You bloat to much. Cell doesn't have to be over 5 times stronger after absorbing the humans for Pete's sake.

I use feats to determine all of my gaps.

[Kaboom]

You bloat to much. Cell doesn't have to be over 5 times stronger after absorbing the humans for Pete's sake.

I kind of have to agree. It's all preference of course, but such "bloated" power differences practically always come from fussing too much over attack amplification and "gaps" and such, and are typically not necessary at all.

[supercat]

Generously speaking, I always thought at the most, Cell doubled his power after going on his energy binge.

[Polyphase Avatron]

If an average human has a PL of like 5, then he would have to have eaten millions of humans to make a difference... that always confused me

[ZombieVito]

What did everyone think of my power levels? Lol?

You bloat to much. Cell doesn't have to be over 5 times stronger after absorbing the humans for Pete's sake.

I use feats to determine all of my gaps.

So tell me how strong was Piccolo in the 23rd TB then? Was he in the 1,000's all along but decided to fool around just because?

If an average human has a PL of like 5, then he would have to have eaten millions of humans to make a difference... that always confused me

I always assume all of the androids absorption's just multiply the energy taken by an x amount. That way you can easily explain this and Gero's statement about the humans.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Perhaps Goku hadn't mastered his amplification by that point. We don't have any statements implying he did like we do with Piccolo.

[ZombieVito]

Perhaps Goku hadn't mastered his amplification by that point. We don't have any statements implying he did like we do with Piccolo.

The blast was still amplified by a good deal. It's even called "Super" Kamehameha and Piccolo still tanked it.

I see zero reasons to bloat Cell's power like that.

[h0kuten]

Alright.

The power level list in the other thread is my 'bloated list' and here I made a 'minimal list'.

Multipliers

Ssj= 50x Base
SsjG2= 62.5x Base
SsjG3= 125x Base
Ssj2= 100x Base
Ssj3= 400x Base
Metamoran= 500x Base
Potara= 8,000x Base
SSJG= 600,000x Base

Arrival of Trunks

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 4,800,000
~Ssj 240,000,000

Trunks
~Base 4,000,000
~Ssj 200,000,000

Mecha Frieza
~Full Power 160,000,000

King Cold
~Full Power 90,000,000

Arrival of The Androids

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 8,000,000
~Sick 280,000,000
~Ssj 400,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 8,400,000
~Ssj 420,000,000

Trunks
~Base 7,600,000
~Ssj 380,000,000

Pre
Android 19
~Full Power 170,000,000
Android 20
~Full Power 180,000,000
Post
Android 19
~Full Power 260,000,000
Android 20
~Full Power 240,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power 480,000,000
Android 17
~Full Power 540,000,000
Android 16
~Full Power 1,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 300,000,000
Kamiccolo
~Full Power 600,000,000

Cell is Complete

Spoiler:

Vegeta
~Base 28,000,000
~Ssj 1,400,000,000
~SsjG2 1,750,000,000

Trunks
~Base 24,000,000
~Ssj 1,200,000,000
~SsjG2 1,500,000,000
~SsjG3 3,000,000,000

Imperfect Cell
~Pre 460,000,000
~Post 1,000,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell
~Full Power 1,350,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Initial 1,600,000,000
~Silent Power Up 2,600,000,000

The Cell Games

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 80,000,000
~60% 2,400,000,000
~Ssj 4,000,000,000

Gohan
~Base 90,000,000
~Ssj 4,500,000,000
~Ssj2 9,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 64,000,000
~Ssj 3,200,000,000

Trunks
~Base 64,000,000
~Ssj 3,200,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 2,800,000,000

Cell Junior
~Full Power 3,500,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Silent Power Up 2,600,000,000
~Powered Up 4,000,000,000
~Increased Speed 4,500,000,000
~Real Speed 5,000,000,000
~Full Power 6,000,000,000
~Super Perfect 8,000,000,000

Majin Buu

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 100,000,000
~Ssj 5,000,000,000
~Ssj2 10,000,000,000
~Ssj3 40,000,000,000

Vegeta Pre-Majin
~Base 80,000,000
~Ssj 4,000,000,000
~Ssj2 8,000,000,000
~Majin 10,000,000,000

Teen Gohan
~Base 70,000,000
~Ssj 3,500,000,000
~Ssj2 7,000,000,000
~Ultimate 600,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 3,200,000,000

Pre-ROST
Goten
~Base 18,000,000
~Ssj 900,000,000
Trunks
~Base 20,000,000
~Ssj 1,000,000,000

Post-ROST
Goten
~Base 50,000,000
~Ssj 2,500,000,000
Trunks
~Base 50,000,000
~Ssj 2,500,000,000

Dabura
~Full Power 3,800,000,000

Fat Buu
~Initial 6,000,000,000
~Powered Up 9,000,000,000
~Full Power 17,500,000,000

Gotenks Pre-ROST
~Base 9,000,000,000
~Ssj 18,000,000,000

Gotenks Post-ROST
~Base 25,000,000,000
~Ssj 50,000,000,000
~Ssj2 100,000,000,000
~Ssj3 400,000,000,000

Good Buu
~Full Power 20,000,000,000
Evil Buu
~Full Power 30,000,000,000
Kid Buu
~Full Power 48,000,000,000
Super Buu
~Full Power 360,000,000,000
Buff Buu
~Full Power 540,000,000,000
Buutenks
~Full Power 760,000,000,000
Buuhan
~Full Power 960,000,000,000

Vegetto
~Base 800,000,000,000
~Ssj 4,000,000,000,000
[~Ssj2 8,000,000,000,000]
[~Ssj3 32,000,000,000,000]

Gogeta (Hypothetical)
~Base 50,000,000,000
~Ssj 100,000,000,000
~Ssj2 200,000,000,000
~Ssj3 800,000,000,000

Battle of Gods

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 5,000,000,000
~Ssj 250,000,000,000
~Ssj2 500,000,000,000
~Ssj3 2,000,000,000,000
~SSJG 80% 2,500,000,000,000,000
~SSJG 100% 3,000,000,000,000,000
~Base Post 1,250,000,000,000,000
~Ssj Post 2,500,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 5,000,000,000
~Ssj 250,000,000,000
~Ssj2 500,000,000,000
~Raging 4,000,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 600,000,000,000

Gotenks
~Base 25,000,000,000
~Ssj 50,000,000,000

Good Buu
~Full Power 20,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 5,000,000,000

Vegetto (Hypothetical)
~Base 40,000,000,000,000
~Ssj 200,000,000,000,000
~Ssj2 400,000,000,000,000
~Ssj3 1,600,000,000,000,000

Gogeta (Hypothetical)
~Base 2,500,000,000,000
~Ssj 5,000,000,000,000
~Ssj2 10,000,000,000,000
~Ssj3 40,000,000,000,000

Beerus
~vs Z-Fighters 5,000,000,000,000
~vs Goku 50,000,000,000,000
~Expected 2,000,000,000,000,000
~50% 2,500,000,000,000,000
~70% 3,500,000,000,000,000
~100% 5,000,000,000,000,000

Whiss
~Full Power 7,500,000,000,000,000

Fukkatsu no F

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 1,900,000,000,000,000
~SSJG SS 3,800,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 1,750,000,000,000,000
~SSJG SS 3,500,000,000,000,000

Gohan
~Base 10,000,000,000
~Ssj/Ultimate 500,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 7,500,000,000

Shisama
~Full Power 12,500,000,000

Frieza
~Revived 90,000,000
~4th Form 1,600,000,000,000,000
~Golden 4,000,000,000,000,000

Beerus
~Full Power 5,000,000,000,000,000

Whiss
~Full Power 7,500,000,000,000,000

EOZ

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 40,000,000,000
~Ssj 2,000,000,000,000
~Ssj2 4,000,000,000,000
~Ssj3 16,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 40,000,000,000
~Ssj 2,000,000,000,000

Good Buu
~Full Power 16,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 400,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 10,000,000,000

Goten (Trained Hypothetical)
~Base 20,000,000,000
~Ssj 1,000,000,000,000

Uub
~Calm 5
~Enraged 48,000,000,000

Vegetto (Hypothetical)
~Base 320,000,000,000,000
~Ssj 1,600,000,000,000,000
~Ssj2 3,200,000,000,000,000
~Ssj3 12,800,000,000,000,000

Gogeta (Hypothetical)
~Base 20,000,000,000,000
~Ssj 40,000,000,000,000
~Ssj2 80,000,000,000,000
~Ssj3 320,000,000,000,000

Let me know what y'all think.

[xmysticgohanx]

Your other list is better because base Saiyans > Freeza

[ZombieVito]

Battle of Gods
Goku
~Base 5,000,000,000

If you are going to do BoG power levels at least do them right.

[h0kuten]

Battle of Gods
Goku
~Base 5,000,000,000

If you are going to do BoG power levels at least do them right.

Suppression.

[ZombieVito]

Beerus examined Goku's body not Ki. He is a god after all, he should be able to determine Goku's power by doing this.

The statement also is never contradicted.

[miguelnuva1]

Beerus examined Goku's body not Ki. He is a god after all, he should be able to determine Goku's power by doing this.

The statement also is never contradicted.

Or Beerus was bluffing because he wanted to see a super saiyan.

[h0kuten]

Beerus examined Goku's body not Ki. He is a god after all, he should be able to determine Goku's power by doing this.

The statement also is never contradicted.

It doesn't have to be contradicted to be true. It's a valid argument.

[Truhan]

I'm considering 50, 100 and 400 as multipliers that we should take for granted, but now I'm introducing a few others:

[Super Saiyan Grades]

SSJ - 50 times the base Battle Power.
SSJ Grade II - 60 times the base Power and Speed (1.2 increase over SSJ).
SSJ Grade III - 70 times the base Power with Speed loss (1.4 increase over SSJ).
Full Power SSJ - 80 times the base Battle Power (1.6 increase over SSJ).

NOTE: Full Power could use this number for any character who has reached that state. Example: Perfect Cell vs SSJ2 Gohan.

[Fusion Dance Formula]

Twice the amount of the lowest Battle Power times 10.
(A + B) * 10, where either A or B has lowered itself to match the other.

[Majin Buu's absorptions]

Using Fat Buu as the base reference with a multiplier of 1:

Mr. Buu - 0.5 times as strong
Super Buu - 4 times as strong
Kid Buu - 4 times as strong
Evil Buu - 8 times as strong
Buff Buu - 8 times as strong

Applied examples:

Evil Buu + Mr. Buu >> 8 * 0.5 = 4
Super Buu - Fat Buu >> 4 / 1 = 4

---

Thoughts or contributions? Am I out of my mind? xD

[Captain Space]

Beerus examined Goku's body not Ki. He is a god after all, he should be able to determine Goku's power by doing this.

That's a bit of an odd argument. How about, "He is a god after all, he should be able to create life/teleport like Kibito/use telepathy from across the universe/etc." Being a god does not automatically qualify him for competence/mastery at any random ability.

I mean, I'd personally say given the Buu saga it's pretty much impossible for the saiyans' base forms to be that much weaker than their SSJ forms, but that's another debate entirely.

EDIT: Just realised I'm the third person in a row to counter this point in whatever manner. Probably unnecessary, sorry...

[supercat]

Beerus wouldn't blatantly mention Goku's inability to trump Frieza unless there was some truth behind it.

Assuming Base Goku was more or less in the the neighborhood of 3 million when he first fought Frieza, he would have had to become at least 40 times stronger for Beerus' statement to be contradicted.

I speculate that after turning Super Saiyan, any additional power that Goku gained went straight to his transformations. Meaning, while his base form did get stronger, the benefits were quite trivial in comparison to the increases that his transformations obtained. This could also be sort of tied in with how the efficacy of the Zenkais began to decline over time.

When all is said and done, I personally feel Buu arc Base Saiyans are no where even near Final Form Frieza 100%, let alone their Super Saiyan forms.

[Kaboom]

If Beerus was lying or mistaken without any indication that he was lying or mistaken, then the line has no reason to even exist and has no place being in the film.

If the film's writers (either Watanabe or Toriyama) wanted Beerus to be mistaken, then there's plenty of different points in the movie where they could have revealed it...

• Whis explaining things to Beerus: "They've all mastered an ability called Super Saiyan which increases their power... though they've now all become so strong they could defeat Freeza without it."
  Goku, to himself or to Beerus before they fight: "I've gotten so strong that I wouldn't even need Super Saiyan to beat Freeza any more... wait'll you see how strong I am with it now!"
  Kaio, after Beerus beats Goku: "Lord Beerus greatly underestimated Goku's power... but his own was still so far above Goku that it didn't make any difference."

...But they didn't.

[supercat]

If Beerus was lying or mistaken without any indication that he was lying or mistaken, then the line has no reason to even exist and has no place being in the film.

Agreed.

In any case, other than a severely restricted fight between Android 18 and the kids, I'm not sure where it was ever implied that the Base Saiyans surpassed Frieza or came even remotely close to reaching such a milestone.

After the tyrant's defeat, the focus seemed to have shifted from merely getting stronger, to unlocking and mastering the different variations of Super Saiyan. Therefore, it's quite likely that the vast majority of the power they gained after the Frieza arc was primarily in the form of new transformations.