Dying while dead

Doctor. · Post by **Doctor.** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:13 am

Goku told Vegeta in the fight against Boo that if he died again, he'd cease to exist completely, presumably making it impossible to wish him back. That's something awfully dark for Dragon Ball, even if it was never really touched, though such a conclusion was at stake once. Do you think Super will approach this concept and utilize it in the future? Do you think Dragon Ball would even want to touch something so dark when it can't even permanently kill off one of its characters? How would you execute this idea if you were in charge of the script?

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:29 am

Doctor. wrote: Do you think Super will approach this concept and utilize it in the future?

Haha.

No.

How would you execute this idea if you were in charge of the script?

The most kid-friendly way to approach this is by introducing a villain who, like the upper gods, is not affected by the concept of death, and can still walk between the real and other world at will. Something like Janemba, whose existence impacts and distorts reality. Thus, it'd need to be killed twice to cease to exist since it cannot be tamed in the afterlife. That'd also be a pretty interesting plot twist after the gang celebrates their initial triumph against the villain.

Avery · Post by **Avery** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:57 pm

I really liked that idea. When Goku told Vegeta about this and he was still determined to fight Kid Boo, I was secretly wishing for him to die

. It was probably the darkest concept of DB, especially that in one filler episode it was stated that dead people can't die again. It added more tension to that fight and the situation as a whole, and it could have brought more depth to the series if Toriyama expanded on that concept further, but noooooo..

As for Super, I doubt this will ever be brought up. So far it seems to have a very light-hearted tone. But DB was just as light-hearted yet it did have some dark moments here and there, then took a much more serious tone. I'd like for Super to do the same.
...One can have dreams.

I would have one of the main characters get killed off for real...but then again we have the epilogue and everyone is alive and well *sigh*. (Though we don't know about Beerus & Whis...hmmm)

Marco Polo · Post by **Marco Polo** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:58 pm

No because EoZ.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:02 pm

The Z fighters are still alive, so I doubt it will be a issue again. I like the idea that the dead would be erase forever if they die again. It makes more sense then the dead not able to die again. It also made things feel more serious when Vegeta was about to fight Kid Buu and even in the filler scene when Kid Buu almost blew up the Grand Kai planet.

SSJ God Gogeta · Post by **SSJ God Gogeta** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:57 pm

We already had a good guy die and being wiped from existence completely, unable to be brought back to life with the Dragon Balls. His name is #16.
Yeah, he was unable to be brought back because he was a robot and not already dead but it's all the same in the end. He can't come back.

As for others sharing this fate Super it ain't gonna happen.

Doctor. · Post by **Doctor.** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:58 pm

SSJ God Gogeta wrote:We already had a good guy die and being wiped from existence completely, unable to be brought back to life with the Dragon Balls. His name is #16.
Yeah, he was unable to be brought back because he was a robot and not already dead but it's all the same in the end. He can't come back.

As for others sharing this fate Super it ain't gonna happen.

Number #8 came back, though.

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:03 pm

#8 is a cyborg similar to #17 and #18. If #16 was brought back, we have known it by now since he was nowhere to be seen in the Buu saga or GT.

Draconic · Post by **Draconic** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:21 pm

I assume 16 could be brought back, if the wish would sound something like "I want #16's chip to be repaired". Or, I don't know, something like that. He is a robot, he could be rebuilt and programmed. And if Shenron had the power to give him all his memories back, someway, it could count as a revival.

DoomieDoomie911 · Post by **DoomieDoomie911** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:11 pm

I always liked this idea. It added risk that was really needed because everyone could always be wished back to life. I hope they keep it.

Also, since #16 is a machine that can be rebuilt, I would assume that he could be wished back.

TheUltimateVegito · Post by **TheUltimateVegito** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:11 pm

I'd say the idea of being stuck in Limbo without the Dragon Balls to wish anyone back to life during the King Piccolo arc was a darker concept.

SSJ God Gogeta · Post by **SSJ God Gogeta** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:30 pm

DoomieDoomie911 wrote:Also, since #16 is a machine that can be rebuilt, I would assume that he could be wished back.

If it was as easy as that then why hasn't it been done yet?

DoomieDoomie911 · Post by **DoomieDoomie911** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:03 pm

SSJ God Gogeta wrote:
DoomieDoomie911 wrote:Also, since #16 is a machine that can be rebuilt, I would assume that he could be wished back.
If it was as easy as that then why hasn't it been done yet?

I don't know... Was wishing him back ever mentioned in the series?

Marco Polo · Post by **Marco Polo** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:19 pm

SSJ God Gogeta wrote:
DoomieDoomie911 wrote:Also, since #16 is a machine that can be rebuilt, I would assume that he could be wished back.
If it was as easy as that then why hasn't it been done yet?

Toriyama forgot/didn't care.

SSJ God Gogeta · Post by **SSJ God Gogeta** » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:00 pm

Marco Polo wrote:
SSJ God Gogeta wrote:
DoomieDoomie911 wrote:Also, since #16 is a machine that can be rebuilt, I would assume that he could be wished back.
If it was as easy as that then why hasn't it been done yet?
Toriyama forgot/didn't care.

Forgot? Forgot what? Forgot about the character that helped Gohan become SSJ2 only a few chapters back? C'mon... When writing chapter 418 I highly doubt he would have totally forgotten about #16, it wouldn't be hard to add him to the list of people to be brought back. Also, he cared enough to bring back #17 of all people so why not #16?

Gian2408 · Post by **Gian2408** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:34 am

Well, I think that the whole reason why the "dying while dead' thing was introduced was to introduce add to the drama in the story and raise the stakes, as well as giving some tension to the scenes. I'm not sure if it's filler or not, but when Chiaozu "died" when training on King Kai's planet, he came back 10 seconds later with no ramifications at all, and all the characters practically laughed if off.

If this happened in the final fight with kid buu, there would be to tension and vegeta would keep dying and coming back and there would be no consequence at all and it would completely ruin the mood and desperation of the scene. I think it would have been better if they had just left the entire topic alone, and completely disregard the fact that you can't die while being dead and nobody would have minded.

Darkprince410 · Post by **Darkprince410** » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:39 am

Gian2408 wrote:Well, I think that the whole reason why the "dying while dead' thing was introduced was to introduce add to the drama in the story and raise the stakes, as well as giving some tension to the scenes. I'm not sure if it's filler or not, but when Chiaozu "died" when training on King Kai's planet, he came back 10 seconds later with no ramifications at all, and all the characters practically laughed if off.

Basically everything shown of Tenshinhan and the others training on Kaiou's planet was filler, with that scene in particular being no exception.

Kanzenshuu

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