New Animation VS Old Animation

[DemonRin]

Honestly, I've seen a LOT of bad animation in the original DBZ. I'm not in the camp that thinks the new stuff is inherently inferior.

Do I think Toei these days is kinda cheap and isn't really putting their all into it? Yeah, it kinda shows, but the new style definitely has its advantages. Watching Kai really underscores the issue. Kai is sometimes jarring because they'll source two different Z episodes in one episode of Kai, so you end up seeing the shift in animation quality sometimes. This isn't a problem Kai created, it just makes a problem that already existent in Z much more apparent, but it was always there. You can kinda get it in Vanilla DBZ by watching the previous episode recaps before treading into the show. It's rife all over the series, but the instance that always sticks into my head is the episode immediately following the Majin Vegeta fight. Because that fight had STELLAR art and animation all the way through right until Goku feels Boo and tells Vegeta to stop. Then the episode cut and you don't go back to them until Next episode where it was another team, and Vegeta's hair looked.... awful.... The hair, to me, is the biggest tell on the bad style, but it's far from the only one.

Super, so far, has been overall consistent. We clearly have different directors and again, Toei's a bit cheap these days, but it doesn't look terrible, and it's so far looked decently consistent to me.... however, with so few episodes, I may end up with my foot in my mouth on this one lol.

wtf? are you really that worried someone on the internet might think you're a 'homo', that you felt necessary to add 'no homo' to your post?

Men can recognize a handsome man without being homosexual. Fear not buddy.

Oh I lol'd that you take that so seriously

This basically answers:

I'm....pretty sure that was a joke, friend.

Yeah, isn't being homophobic funny!

[VintageSaiyan]

Maybe you should do yourself a favor

The particular sentence I wrote, in which this is written in response to, was only meant to be a helpful suggestion. You wrote this with the intention of being rude. Not appreciated.

rewatch the original series, but watch others where studios actually put in time and effort into their production. I'm not nitpicking when as a whole the entire thing looks horrendous

As I mentioned before you aren't proving a single one of your claims. You're not elaborating on anything like Ajay is doing. What you're doing is just akin smack talking.

People seem to think crazy cliche "anime" angles makes for good animation - it does not.

What do angles have to do with what we're referring to?

I'd counter that I'm one of the few on here that isn't blinded by nostalgia

Nostalgia is not a factor in this argument.
You're arguing from an opinionated and emotional standpoint. Not factual.

You're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. I've provided plenty of examples to check out, such as the Vegeta training sequence in Super vs the one in Z, the fight scenes in RoF vs Z, etc. I'm not saying ALL of DBZ was animated gloriously, but everything and I mean everything to come out of the franchise in the last 5 years is a lazy, uninspiring cash in on the brand name. Look at Fate Stay/Night and then look at Fate Zero & the remake in Fate Stay Night 2014. That's what it looks like when a studio CARES about the work they put out.

What do angles have to do with what we're referring to?

Just because you have an animated sequence of Goku in BoG busting out of a bunch of rocks that looks kind of pretty, doesn't mean it's good. Sure the number of frames are upped and it looks fluid - but it adds absolutely nothing to the moment and feels like a bit of general anime eye candy sprinkled into an otherwise unoriginal, boring movie. That's why Movie 6 worked so well for me despite the fact that there were a bunch of ugly frames in there. At least it was storyboarded decently.

I mean, I sort of get it: they're trying to reintroduce the dragonball franchise to toddlers and are treating it that way. Doesn't mean I'm happy about it and I'm quite perplexed that everyone is eating it up. "Oh, AT is on board so of course its awesome!" No, it's not. Kubo Tite jumped the shark on Bleach a long time ago and even though that manga is pretty and he's still writing it, it's a steaming pile of horseshit.

[fadeddreams5]

I don't know about animation, but I detest the modern art, in general.

Kubo Tite jumped the shark on Bleach a long time ago and even though that manga is pretty and he's still writing it, it's a steaming pile of horseshit.

Amen.

[Doctor.]

Now that the new trailer for Digimon Tri has dropped, I see that it isn't an issue of Toei not being capable of producing animation on par with other studios like Madhouse and Ufotable, the issue is that they don't want to put that kind of effort into Dragon Ball, for some reason. This trailer, along with some of the recent One Piece movies like Strong World and Film Z, look MUCH better than any recently animated Dragon Ball product. Resurrection 'F' just looks plain bad in comparison, for instance, and only the Shida cut in BoG can rival these films' quality.

[VintageSaiyan]

Now that the new trailer for Digimon Tri has dropped, I see that it isn't an issue of Toei not being capable of producing animation on par with other studios like Madhouse and Ufotable, the issue is that they don't want to put that kind of effort into Dragon Ball, for some reason. This trailer, along with some of the recent One Piece movies like Strong World and Film Z, look MUCH better than any recently animated Dragon Ball product. Resurrection 'F' just looks plain bad in comparison, for instance, and only the Shida cut in BoG can rival these films' quality.

Which is why I'm so . They don't need to with Dragonball, because it'll sell itself. It arguably has a much bigger market worldwide.

The fight scene in that trailer looks amazing.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't know that Digimon trailer looks pretty on par with all Resurrection "F" clips/trailers I have seen. (Not counting CGI).

[Doctor.]

All the Resurrection 'F' clips I've seen look pretty stiff (there's definitely not one cut in the entire movie as fluid as that one in the end of the trailer) and, in some cases, the animation is bad (base Goku vs Freeza for the majority of it). Characters may be drawn awkwardly, too (I haven't seen one shot of Whis where he's on-model). Then there's the fact that the major fights have terrible fights, and you end up with 7 or 8 minutes of good animation (the fight scene against the soldiers). Definitely not 'great' animation overall.

[fadeddreams5]

As mentioned, DBZ sells itself on an international level (pretty stupid to not have a simulcast though). They don't need anything but Toriyama writing and minimal effort in the art and animation side of things.

[ParkerAL]

Now that the initial luster of being able to watch a new Dragon Ball TV series has slightly subsided,the show's limited budget has become harder to ignore. The third episode looked pretty bad in places. Sure, it didn't have anything too interesting happen that would have justified an uptick in animation quality, but even episodes that only exist to set up larger events down the road deserve at least some standout moments. And of course, there was this little gem of a transition:



I'm not asking for much from Toei Animation. All I want is competent animation and art that doesn't look flat and ugly (and for them to license the show out to international streamers already, but that's a different topic). If Dragon Ball Super could at least consistently match the top-notch composition, scenery and decent animation from this Battle of Gods clip (not counting the somewhat wonky Goku vs Freeza fight recap), I'd be satisfied. So far, the most they've done with the show's animation is remind me how much I miss Hunterx Hunter.

[coola]

Same thing happened in Sailor Moon Crystal, NEP badly drawn Chibi-Usa uniform, but actual episode fixed that (Not always unfortunately, and we had blue short sleeved uniform )
http://sailormoonnews.com/wp-content/up ... luna-p.jpg (NEP)
http://sailormoonnews.com/wp-content/up ... _white.jpg (Actual episode)
http://sailormoonnews.com/wp-content/up ... s_hand.jpg (NEP)
http://sailormoonnews.com/wp-content/up ... s_hand.jpg (Actual episode)
I wonder sometimes, if these animation hick ups isn't because of how many shows Toei produce at same time?

[Hellspawn28]

(pretty stupid to not have a simulcast though)

Toei announce Super back in late April, Funimation most likely didn't have the time to get the rights to the show. Also it's the first DB show in nearly 20 years. Toei most likely wants the show airing first in Japan and the rest of the world later. The Japanese are always the main target audience for the series.

[Cursemark505]

provided plenty of examples

I'm not going out of my way to search all of these things just to prove some claims you made.
Besides, the things you're referring to are all done by different animators. Of course they aren't going to have the same quality

I'm not saying ALL of DBZ was animated gloriously

And I'm not saying that the new Dragon ball related animation has been overall great but saying that every little thing has been lazy isn't true.
Have you seen Ultimate Blast's opening?

That's what it looks like when a studio CARES

That's not exactly a byproduct of caring. Ufotable rarely works on anime so they could pour all of their resources into whatever project they work on and they have tons of time to prep.
You're right about Toei not caring enough about Dragon ball though.
For a couple of movies, RoF and BoG were lackluster. I've always agreed to that.
If they really wanted to they could have given them the same quality as the One Piece films strong world and film z, but they weren't even close. They don't even look as good as the specials they've been putting out either.
I've also been checking out some Precure episodes and was almost convinced I was watching a movie.
Even the first couple of episodes of Toriko looked way better than the first few episodes of Super.

feels like a bit of general anime eye candy

This is merely an opinion. Shida's cut was fantastically animated. There's no arguing with that.

[Hellspawn28]

Both BOG and ROF have nice animation to them expect for one or two scenes. The CG is shit in ROF, but it's a Japanese film. Japanese films rarely have good CG. People where expecting the CG to look as good as Pixar film when Toei will never put that high level of a budget into a DBZ film.

[VintageSaiyan]

Both BOG and ROF have nice animation to them expect for one or two scenes. The CG is shit in ROF, but it's a Japanese film. Japanese films rarely have good CG. People where expecting the CG to look as good as Pixar film when Toei will never put that high level of a budget into a DBZ film.

....

[Hellspawn28]

That scene looks alright, I seen way worst. Still beats derpy eye Piccolo from DBZ Movie 6.

[Ajay]

We've been over this, bud. One bad scene doesn't mean a thing in the context of an entire movie. You can post that as many times as you like, but it really doesn't mean anything.

[ErikB]

I'm not even sure I see the problem with that shot. Aside from the fact that it's inherently of the modernized art style, which I just don't like personally, nothing jumps out to me as poorly done.
Mind you I haven't seen Resurrection 'F' yet so I don't know what that shot looks like in motion. Only 1 week to go now.

[GeeRod]

I don't think Super's animation is bad at all. Is the same as others running longer shounens, except HxH 2011. I'm waiting to see how they'll handle fights, if is equal to RoF I'm very pleased.

[Hellspawn28]

Super captures the colorful look that Dragon Ball has. I hated the animation in GT and I remember I wanted a new series to return the colorful look that both DB & DBZ had.

[Cursemark505]

I don't think Super's animation is bad at all. Is the same as others running longer shounens, except HxH 2011. I'm waiting to see how they'll handle fights, if is equal to RoF I'm very pleased.

Super's animation hasn't been at the level of other long running shonen anime thus far. It's actually at the bottom of the totem pole.