Are GT characters really stronger the BoG/FnF characters?

[vegeta623i]

Are GT characters (SS4 Goku, Vegeta, evil dragons, Baby, 17) really stronger (than) the BoG/FnF characters (SSGSS Goku, Vegeta, Beerus, Whis and Golden Freeza) in terms of power? People have been telling me that when we debt(what?) (I think the gods are stronger). I want to (know/hear) how they are stronger than the gods and don't use time placement as an argument.

[VegettoEX]

Are GT characters (SS4 Goku, Vegeta, evil dragons, Baby, 17) really stronger (than) the BoG/FnF characters (SSGSS Goku, Vegeta, Beerus, Whis and Golden Freeza) in terms of power? People have been telling me that when we debt(what?) (I think the gods are stronger). I want to (know/hear) how they are stronger than the gods and don't use time placement as an argument.

Your post took a lot of work to make halfway-readable, and even then I'm not sure what you're asking in at least one statement/question. Please review the community guidelines, which you agreed to (twice) prior to registration.

If you don't want people to use time placement as an argument, you're taking a way a valid argument... in which case it's difficult to even want to respond at all.

Even ignoring their placement in time to each other, it's likely that the recent movies and GT take place in two separate continuities. It seems somewhat worthless to even bother comparing them in strength at all, honestly. Coming from separate authors working from completely different points of view and with completely different context, there isn't much of a comparison to make. This is especially difficult when you consider how nonchalant Toriyama is about internal consistency with his stories (admittedly so), and in contrast to that, how poor Toei generally is with their on-screen depictions of strength in original stories.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

First of all, GT is treated as an alternative timeline in XenoVerse, so BoG/FnF/Super & GT most likely aren't in the same continuity. So, statements in GT such as "this is the strongest guy I've ever seen!" don't mean that these fighters are stronger than the BoG/FnF/Super fighters.

Super Vegetto is said to be perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4, and the only SS4 at that point was Goku during the Evil Dragons arc. So, SS4 Goku & Super Vegetto are around the same level.

After Goku first fought Beerus, he believed that even if he & Vegeta were to merge, they would still probably not stand a chance against Beerus, and the strongest result they can create was SS3 Vegetto. After Goku became a Super Saiyan God, he says that he didn't couldn't even imagine such power, so SSG Goku was much stronger than what he expected from Beerus, and therefore, much stronger than SS3 Vegetto, and SSGSS Goku, SSGSS Vegeta, Golden Freeza, Beerus, and Whis are even stronger than SSG Goku.

So, if SSG Goku is on entire different level than SS3 Vegetto, and SS4 Goku is around the same level as SS Vegetto, then this means that the SSG/SbG/SSGSS Goku, SSG/SbG/SSGSS Vegeta, Final Form/Golden Freeza, Beerus, and Whis, are all far above SS4 Goku, along with SS4 Vegeta, Oozaru Baby, Super #17, base Yi Xing Long and the rest of the GT fighters, since all of them are weaker, as strong, or stronger, but not many times stronger, than SS4 Goku.

Super Yi Xing Long & SS4 Gogeta are on a different level than the rest of the GT fighters, so we can't tell where they stand against against the BoG/FnF/Super fighters, so it's anyone's guess. My guess is that the they are weaker than Freeza & the gods.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

It's all opinion really. I personally don't see BoF/FnF characters being stronger than GT's upper echelons. I'd place SSG Goku and SS4 Goku around same level personally.

[Herms]

There's been no official word on the subject so far, for what it's worth.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

Since I have yet to hear an official explanation on it, I will say that due to Goku absorbing the SSJG abilities he is stronger than he ever was in GT. From what I have seen in the movies, SSJG is not a power up per say (like SSJ is) but rather a sort of "attribute" or "ability." Without it, Goku can't hurt Beerus or any god like him. With it, he can. So when you consider that pre-GT Goku can fight with Beerus (albeit still lose) while end of GT Goku could not, I would say what we have now as of Resurrection 'F' is more powerful. If I had to guess, I would say that Vegeto himself couldn't touch Beerus unless he was a SSJG and Goku even says it in the extended edition of Battle of Gods.

But what VegettoEX said is the best answer.

[mikey4111]

I would think that SSJG is stronger then the GT characters. But it makes me wonder still how frieza could surpass SSJ Vegito in 4 months also. I don't know, hopefully DB Super will show Freeza's training.

[Sayo-chan]

First of all, GT is treated as an alternative timeline in XenoVerse, so BoG/FnF/Super & GT most likely aren't in the same continuity. So, statements in GT such as "this is the strongest guy I've ever seen!" don't mean that these fighters are stronger than the BoG/FnF/Super fighters.

Super Vegetto is said to be perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4, and the only SS4 at that point was Goku during the Evil Dragons arc. So, SS4 Goku & Super Vegetto are around the same level.

After Goku first fought Beerus, he believed that even if he & Vegeta were to merge, they would still probably not stand a chance against Beerus, and the strongest result they can create was SS3 Vegetto. After Goku became a Super Saiyan God, he says that he didn't couldn't even imagine such power, so SSG Goku was much stronger than what he expected from Beerus, and therefore, much stronger than SS3 Vegetto, and SSGSS Goku, SSGSS Vegeta, Golden Freeza, Beerus, and Whis are even stronger than SSG Goku.

So, if SSG Goku is on entire different level than SS3 Vegetto, and SS4 Goku is around the same level as SS Vegetto, then this means that the SSG/SbG/SSGSS Goku, SSG/SbG/SSGSS Vegeta, Final Form/Golden Freeza, Beerus, and Whis, are all far above SS4 Goku, along with SS4 Vegeta, Oozaru Baby, Super #17, base Yi Xing Long and the rest of the GT fighters, since all of them are weaker, as strong, or stronger, but not many times stronger, than SS4 Goku.

Super Yi Xing Long & SS4 Gogeta are on a different level than the rest of the GT fighters, so we can't tell where they stand against against the BoG/FnF/Super fighters, so it's anyone's guess. My guess is that the they are weaker than Freeza & the gods.

Goku's comment about Vegetto isn't reliable. He had no idea how strong Beerus was, and I doubt he had a good idea of what Vegetto's full power would be. How does that place SSJ3 Vegetto anywhere? He's not a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes. Also, where is it said that SSJ Vegetto > SSJ4 Goku? I haven't seen GT in almost a decade.

Personally, I don't think there's anyone near SSJ4 Gogeta's level aside from a theoretical SSJ4 Vegetto.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

GT happens years after the events of BOG and FnF. the characters only couldve gotten stronger.

[ekrolo2]

Going by Shonen laws of progression, the newest form is almost always the strongest & best one. Then again, Golden Freeza was capable of kicking Goku's ass a good amount without becoming a God and would've killed him for sure were it not for his stamina rapidly draining means that say Omega or SSJ4 Gogeta could potentially be comparable to the Gods at least. Hell, given how ridiculously strong base Goku is in GT (stronger than Buu Saga SSJ3) and the enormous power up he gets from 4, he could also be fit into that group small group.

[90sDBZ]

Super Vegetto is said to be perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4, and the only SS4 at that point was Goku during the Evil Dragons arc. So, SS4 Goku & Super Vegetto are around the same level.

When is any of this said?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku's comment about Vegetto isn't reliable. He had no idea how strong Beerus was, and I doubt he had a good idea of what Vegetto's full power would be. How does that place SSJ3 Vegetto anywhere? He's not a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes. Also, where is it said that SSJ Vegetto > SSJ4 Goku? I haven't seen GT in almost a decade.

Personally, I don't think there's anyone near SSJ4 Gogeta's level aside from a theoretical SSJ4 Vegetto.

Goku had an idea of Beerus' power through their fight. After becoming SSG, he said that he couldn't even imagine such that such a realm existed, implying that SSG was far above the power he thought Beerus had from their fight, and Beerus was actually even stronger than that.

As for how would he know about SS3 Vegetto's power when he never existed... If he could have an accurate estimation of SS Gotenks' power before his existence, he should be able to have an accurate estimation of SS3 Vegetto's power as well. He knew how strong SS Gotenks would because he knew what kind of power-up Fusion gives & he knew SS Goten's & Trunks' full power. He knows his full power, he knows that Vegeta is around his level as well, and he knows what kind of power-up the Potara & Super Saiyan 3 give.

Super Vegetto is said to be perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4, and the only SS4 at that point was Goku during the Evil Dragons arc. So, SS4 Goku & Super Vegetto are around the same level.

When is any of this said?

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 63#p835863

It's from a databook section of the GT TV Special Animation Comic.

[Lord Beerus]

It's all opinion really. I personally don't see BoF/FnF characters being stronger than GT's upper echelons. I'd place SSG Goku and SS4 Goku around same level personally.

Personally I see, Whis being above the entire GT universe. With the other God tier characters, such as Beerus, Golden Freeza, SSJGSSJ Goku/Vegeta, above a large fraction of the top tier characters in GT, with the exception of SSJ4 Gogeta and perhaps Omega Shenron.

[Sayo-chan]

Goku's comment about Vegetto isn't reliable. He had no idea how strong Beerus was, and I doubt he had a good idea of what Vegetto's full power would be. How does that place SSJ3 Vegetto anywhere? He's not a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes. Also, where is it said that SSJ Vegetto > SSJ4 Goku? I haven't seen GT in almost a decade.

Personally, I don't think there's anyone near SSJ4 Gogeta's level aside from a theoretical SSJ4 Vegetto.

Goku had an idea of Beerus' power through their fight. After becoming SSG, he said that he couldn't even imagine such that such a realm existed, implying that SSG was far above the power he thought Beerus had from their fight, and Beerus was actually even stronger than that.

As for how would he know about SS3 Vegetto's power when he never existed... If he could have an accurate estimation of SS Gotenks' power before his existence, he should be able to have an accurate estimation of SS3 Vegetto's power as well. He knew how strong SS Gotenks would because he knew what kind of power-up Fusion gives & he knew SS Goten's & Trunks' full power. He knows his full power, he knows that Vegeta is around his level as well, and he knows what kind of power-up the Potara & Super Saiyan 3 give.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into Goku's opinions. I don't think he's reliable in the slightest. Could we get the exact quote of what he says? I don't wanna trip over semantics.

Goku knew nothing about potara fusion though, so how are his statements about Gotenks relevant? I'm sure Goku knows his own limits, but I doubt he knows what Vegetto's are, especially seeing that there's no evidence to suggest he was anywhere near so in his fight with Boohan. I'm also skeptical that Goku would know for sure just how strong SSJ3 Vegetto would be, especially seeing that he never experienced that level of power. He probably has an estimation, but he has no idea if it's right or how it would feel compared to being a god.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku's comment about Vegetto isn't reliable. He had no idea how strong Beerus was, and I doubt he had a good idea of what Vegetto's full power would be. How does that place SSJ3 Vegetto anywhere? He's not a thing outside of Dragon Ball Heroes. Also, where is it said that SSJ Vegetto > SSJ4 Goku? I haven't seen GT in almost a decade.

Personally, I don't think there's anyone near SSJ4 Gogeta's level aside from a theoretical SSJ4 Vegetto.

Goku had an idea of Beerus' power through their fight. After becoming SSG, he said that he couldn't even imagine such that such a realm existed, implying that SSG was far above the power he thought Beerus had from their fight, and Beerus was actually even stronger than that.

As for how would he know about SS3 Vegetto's power when he never existed... If he could have an accurate estimation of SS Gotenks' power before his existence, he should be able to have an accurate estimation of SS3 Vegetto's power as well. He knew how strong SS Gotenks would because he knew what kind of power-up Fusion gives & he knew SS Goten's & Trunks' full power. He knows his full power, he knows that Vegeta is around his level as well, and he knows what kind of power-up the Potara & Super Saiyan 3 give.

I think you're reading waaaay too much into Goku's opinions. I don't think he's reliable in the slightest. Could we get the exact quote of what he says? I don't wanna trip over semantics.

Goku knew nothing about potara fusion though, so how are his statements about Gotenks relevant? I'm sure Goku knows his own limits, but I doubt he knows what Vegetto's are, especially seeing that there's no evidence to suggest he was anywhere near so in his fight with Boohan. I'm also skeptical that Goku would know for sure just how strong SSJ3 Vegetto would be, especially seeing that he never experienced that level of power. He probably has an estimation, but he has no idea if it's right or how it would feel compared to being a god.

Vegetto didn't know what Vegetto's limits were. I don't see why Goku would.

[swimtrunks]

Let's be honest. Only GT fans say Gt characters are stronger than Beerus, Whis, & SSJ God Goku. They're clearly not. It's just trolling at it's most obvious. Let them tell it, one hair from an SSJ 4 mullet kicks Whis into the next universe.

[Sayo-chan]

Let's be honest. Only GT fans say Gt characters are stronger than Beerus, Whis, & SSJ God Goku. They're clearly not. It's just trolling at it's most obvious. Let them tell it, one hair from an SSJ 4 mullet kicks Whis into the next universe.

I'm being honest when I say this:

I'm not a GT fan. I think it was okay, mediocre, nothing special. I find the odds to be in the GT cast's favor. I feel like the gods are overrated for the sake of being gods. I doubt anyone at all would place any of them near SSJ4 Gogeta if they didn't hold those titles, but that's just my hypothesis.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

First of all, GT is treated as an alternative timeline in XenoVerse, so BoG/FnF/Super & GT most likely aren't in the same continuity. So, statements in GT such as "this is the strongest guy I've ever seen!" don't mean that these fighters are stronger than the BoG/FnF/Super fighters.

Super Vegetto is said to be perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4, and the only SS4 at that point was Goku during the Evil Dragons arc. So, SS4 Goku & Super Vegetto are around the same level.

After Goku first fought Beerus, he believed that even if he & Vegeta were to merge, they would still probably not stand a chance against Beerus, and the strongest result they can create was SS3 Vegetto. After Goku became a Super Saiyan God, he says that he didn't couldn't even imagine such power, so SSG Goku was much stronger than what he expected from Beerus, and therefore, much stronger than SS3 Vegetto, and SSGSS Goku, SSGSS Vegeta, Golden Freeza, Beerus, and Whis are even stronger than SSG Goku.

So, if SSG Goku is on entire different level than SS3 Vegetto, and SS4 Goku is around the same level as SS Vegetto, then this means that the SSG/SbG/SSGSS Goku, SSG/SbG/SSGSS Vegeta, Final Form/Golden Freeza, Beerus, and Whis, are all far above SS4 Goku, along with SS4 Vegeta, Oozaru Baby, Super #17, base Yi Xing Long and the rest of the GT fighters, since all of them are weaker, as strong, or stronger, but not many times stronger, than SS4 Goku.

Super Yi Xing Long & SS4 Gogeta are on a different level than the rest of the GT fighters, so we can't tell where they stand against against the BoG/FnF/Super fighters, so it's anyone's guess. My guess is that the they are weaker than Freeza & the gods.

Please stop spreading around that ssj vegto=ssj4 goku stuff. In case you didn't know,it's fan made up BS.Herms did a translation of the perfect files,and admits there's no such line in the perfect files. Heck gt goku said baby's chi was the strongest he ever felt,which means beyond ssj3 vegito's chi. which wasn't all shown,but being part of vegito once he know what it is. GT characters are MUCH stronger then BOG characters. The years of training more then make up for the 1 inferior transformation. SO GT ha a better tansformation an more training,no way whis can touch even base GT goku.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think you're reading waaaay too much into Goku's opinions. I don't think he's reliable in the slightest. Could we get the exact quote of what he says? I don't wanna trip over semantics.

"To fight against him, I would have to merge with Vegeta... No, even that probably won't be enough."

Goku knew nothing about potara fusion though, so how are his statements about Gotenks relevant? I'm sure Goku knows his own limits, but I doubt he knows what Vegetto's are, especially seeing that there's no evidence to suggest he was anywhere near so in his fight with Boohan. I'm also skeptical that Goku would know for sure just how strong SSJ3 Vegetto would be, especially seeing that he never experienced that level of power. He probably has an estimation, but he has no idea if it's right or how it would feel compared to being a god.

He has experienced the power of the Potara, Vegetto's power, and he has experienced the power of Super Saiyan 3 on himself. He should have an idea of SS3 Vegetto's power, but his estimation shouldn't be far from reality, since Goku has the necessary data & experience to have a good estimation.

And Gotenks is relevant, yes. You are asking how can Goku know how strong SS3 Vegetto is when he never existed, when Goku has already done it before. SS Gotenks hadn't existed yet when Goku was saying that he would surpass Fat Boo.

Vegetto didn't know what Vegetto's limits were. I don't see why Goku would.

Vegetto didn't know them because he was just born. Goku has already experienced Vegetto's power.

Please stop spreading around that ssj vegto=ssj4 goku stuff. In case you didn't know,it's fan made up BS.Herms did a translation of the perfect files,and admits there's no such line in the perfect files. Heck gt goku said baby's chi was the strongest he ever felt,which means beyond ssj3 vegito's chi. which wasn't all shown,but being part of vegito once he know what it is. GT characters are MUCH stronger then BOG characters. The years of training more then make up for the 1 inferior transformation. SO GT ha a better tansformation an more training,no way whis can touch even base GT goku.

It isn't fan-made, it just doesn't come from the Perfect Files.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

It's completely wrong to say vegito could be even near the power of end of z vegeta and or goku. he's get 1 hit even if he had kaiokenx10 on. You seriously nerf goku and I can't understand why.