Toriyama confirms Golden Frieza's power level...?

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I think it's just 1.3 million at his 1rst form.

What if we use the Viz power levels?

Goku
~Base 3,000,000
~Ssj 150,000,000
~Ssj2 300,000,000
~Ssj3 1,200,000,000

Freeza
~Revived 215,000
~1rst Form Post 1,300,000
~Final Form Post 294,000,000

Freeza on Namek was 120 million. After his training you are telling me he goes to a mere 294 million? The androids could handle that.

[h0kuten]

I think it's just 1.3 million at his 1rst form.

What if we use the Viz power levels?

Goku
~Base 3,000,000
~Ssj 150,000,000
~Ssj2 300,000,000
~Ssj3 1,200,000,000

Freeza
~Revived 215,000
~1rst Form Post 1,300,000
~Final Form Post 294,000,000

Freeza on Namek was 120 million. After his training you are telling me he goes to a mere 294 million? The androids could handle that.

Maybe Toriyama didn't intend for this massive training gains and our, FAN ideologies are actually incorrect.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Freeza said he would achieve a battle power of 1.3 million (presumably in his 1st Form, since his other forms were near or past that), but we got no confirmation that his battle power ended like that. In fact, his feats prove that he is far beyond that level.

So no, we don't have to take it as an actual battle power.

[Truhan]

Couldn't he just, I don't know, have surpassed that number incredibly fast, so far as to feel over-confident about his power? He made a prediction, and he has far exceeded it.

[Taskmaster]

I don't think the statement is supposed to be literal...

[Sayo-chan]

I've long since come to the conclusion they aren't trying anymore. Dragon Ball is extremely inconsistent and poorly written, especially outside of the manga. But let's take a look at what we have anyway.

Form I
530,000
Form II
1,000,000+
Form III
1,000,000-3,000,000
Final
3,000,000
100%
120,000,000

So his first transformation pretty much doubles his battle power. His second transformation may as well do the same seeing that it's under 3 million. It's my understanding that these transformations aren't actually multiplying his power so much as they "unrestricting" it. So between 3,000,000 and 120,000,000 is his natural battle power. 100% Freeza looks as though he has to exert effort to maintain it. Veins are bulging, muscles are popping, it looks the furthest thing from natural. This is also supported by the fact whenever we typically see Freeza, it's not at 100%. In fact, it seems like a form seldom ever used, if ever. It would make sense that's the case, otherwise the entire restriction idea falls apart. With that said, if the transformations don't actually multiply anything, the 1.3 million statement is rather baseless.

Form I
1,300,000
Form II
2,600,000+
Form III
2,600,000-7,800,000
Final
7,800,000
100%
?

3,000,000 goes into 120,000,000 40 times, making it 2.5% of his total power. If we assume 7,800,000 is 2.5% of his maximum we get: 312,000,000; a 2.6x increase. At this point I'm sure Android 17 would still be able to manhandle him. So that leaves his ghetto trash bling bling form. SSj2 is x100 base. Unless we're going to assume Goku, Gohan and Cell never came close to 1,000,000,000, this final form has to bullshit increase Freeza's battle power, because anime.

Now, we don't know exactly how strong Freeza got in four months, but I'm calling bullshit regardless. Even if we gave Freeza a ton of zenkais, his gains are still incredibly unrealistic, especially considering nobody in the manga makes absurd leaps of power like that from training alone in such short periods of time. I'm sure we would've seen anything amazing he could do through Cell, but instead, the one thing that actually powers him up is a zenkai. In other words, this is entirely new and wasn't even a thought when Freeza was actually a decent villain. Let's assume, let's just assume Goku doubled his power from Freeza to Boo, which I understand is definitely selling him and everyone else short, but let's just do it.

SSJ
300,000,000
SSJ2
600,000,000
SSJ3
2,400,000,000

I find it absolutely ludicrous to believe Freeza made a 20x+ jump in 4 months.

[dbgtFO]

I find it absolutely ludicrous to believe Freeza made a 20x+ jump in 4 months.

That is actually quite believable, since Goku did the same in the Saiyan Arc, but in 6 months, rather than 4.
Furthermore Freeza is a prodigy, so he gets "prodigy gains", rather than low class Saiyan gains

[Sayo-chan]

The difference is the gap between the numbers. Certain training measures become inconvenient and impractical. I don't see it as being at all feasible, especially considering Goku's gains are strictly from sloppy plot devices. Those gains are minuscule by sheer statistical comparison. As I stated earlier, it doesn't make sense for Freeza to be a prodigy (if anything that'd be Gohan). There's nothing until this point about such nonsense. It's just a cheap and lazy way to reintroduce a villain that should've stayed dead.

I'd love to see how they'd bullshit his "special" training. There comes a point in a story where building too much causes everything to fall flat on its face, which seems to be the fate of most mainstream anime nowadays. Dragon Ball really started to suffer from this in the Cell saga.

[h0kuten]

I've long since come to the conclusion they aren't trying anymore. Dragon Ball is extremely inconsistent and poorly written, especially outside of the manga. But let's take a look at what we have anyway.

Form I
530,000
Form II
1,000,000+
Form III
1,000,000-3,000,000
Final
3,000,000
100%
120,000,000

So his first transformation pretty much doubles his battle power. His second transformation may as well do the same seeing that it's under 3 million. It's my understanding that these transformations aren't actually multiplying his power so much as they "unrestricting" it. So between 3,000,000 and 120,000,000 is his natural battle power. 100% Freeza looks as though he has to exert effort to maintain it. Veins are bulging, muscles are popping, it looks the furthest thing from natural. This is also supported by the fact whenever we typically see Freeza, it's not at 100%. In fact, it seems like a form seldom ever used, if ever. It would make sense that's the case, otherwise the entire restriction idea falls apart. With that said, if the transformations don't actually multiply anything, the 1.3 million statement is rather baseless.

Form I
1,300,000
Form II
2,600,000+
Form III
2,600,000-7,800,000
Final
7,800,000
100%
?

3,000,000 goes into 120,000,000 40 times, making it 2.5% of his total power. If we assume 7,800,000 is 2.5% of his maximum we get: 312,000,000; a 2.6x increase. At this point I'm sure Android 17 would still be able to manhandle him. So that leaves his ghetto trash bling bling form. SSj2 is x100 base. Unless we're going to assume Goku, Gohan and Cell never came close to 1,000,000,000, this final form has to bullshit increase Freeza's battle power, because anime.

Now, we don't know exactly how strong Freeza got in four months, but I'm calling bullshit regardless. Even if we gave Freeza a ton of zenkais, his gains are still incredibly unrealistic, especially considering nobody in the manga makes absurd leaps of power like that from training alone in such short periods of time. I'm sure we would've seen anything amazing he could do through Cell, but instead, the one thing that actually powers him up is a zenkai. In other words, this is entirely new and wasn't even a thought when Freeza was actually a decent villain. Let's assume, let's just assume Goku doubled his power from Freeza to Boo, which I understand is definitely selling him and everyone else short, but let's just do it.

SSJ
300,000,000
SSJ2
600,000,000
SSJ3
2,400,000,000

I find it absolutely ludicrous to believe Freeza made a 20x+ jump in 4 months.

Unrealistic?

Piccolo got 300x stronger in 3 years, yet you're complaining about Frieza? Lol

Frieza was born with a battle power of 120,000,000.

Name one canon character besides Uub who is born with a higher battle power.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I've long since come to the conclusion they aren't trying anymore. Dragon Ball is extremely inconsistent and poorly written, especially outside of the manga. But let's take a look at what we have anyway.

Form I
530,000
Form II
1,000,000+
Form III
1,000,000-3,000,000
Final
3,000,000
100%
120,000,000

So his first transformation pretty much doubles his battle power. His second transformation may as well do the same seeing that it's under 3 million. It's my understanding that these transformations aren't actually multiplying his power so much as they "unrestricting" it. So between 3,000,000 and 120,000,000 is his natural battle power. 100% Freeza looks as though he has to exert effort to maintain it. Veins are bulging, muscles are popping, it looks the furthest thing from natural. This is also supported by the fact whenever we typically see Freeza, it's not at 100%. In fact, it seems like a form seldom ever used, if ever. It would make sense that's the case, otherwise the entire restriction idea falls apart. With that said, if the transformations don't actually multiply anything, the 1.3 million statement is rather baseless.

Form I
1,300,000
Form II
2,600,000+
Form III
2,600,000-7,800,000
Final
7,800,000
100%
?

3,000,000 goes into 120,000,000 40 times, making it 2.5% of his total power. If we assume 7,800,000 is 2.5% of his maximum we get: 312,000,000; a 2.6x increase. At this point I'm sure Android 17 would still be able to manhandle him. So that leaves his ghetto trash bling bling form. SSj2 is x100 base. Unless we're going to assume Goku, Gohan and Cell never came close to 1,000,000,000, this final form has to bullshit increase Freeza's battle power, because anime.

Now, we don't know exactly how strong Freeza got in four months, but I'm calling bullshit regardless. Even if we gave Freeza a ton of zenkais, his gains are still incredibly unrealistic, especially considering nobody in the manga makes absurd leaps of power like that from training alone in such short periods of time. I'm sure we would've seen anything amazing he could do through Cell, but instead, the one thing that actually powers him up is a zenkai. In other words, this is entirely new and wasn't even a thought when Freeza was actually a decent villain. Let's assume, let's just assume Goku doubled his power from Freeza to Boo, which I understand is definitely selling him and everyone else short, but let's just do it.

SSJ
300,000,000
SSJ2
600,000,000
SSJ3
2,400,000,000

I find it absolutely ludicrous to believe Freeza made a 20x+ jump in 4 months.

Unrealistic?

Piccolo got 300x stronger in 3 years, yet you're complaining about Freeza? Lol

Freeza was born with a battle power of 120,000,000.

Name one canon character besides Uub who is born with a higher battle power.

Vegeto

[saunasolmu]

You shouldn't think about the numbers that much. Toriyama discarded them for a reason. It's much easier to let go of the power levels and just think that character X is 'a lot' stronger than character Y.

Besides Goku got, what, 500,000 times stronger in 13 months from the start of Saiyan saga till the end of Namek saga. Why is our protagonist allowed such a ridiculous growth but when a villain does it it's bullshit?

[Sayo-chan]

I've long since come to the conclusion they aren't trying anymore. Dragon Ball is extremely inconsistent and poorly written, especially outside of the manga. But let's take a look at what we have anyway.

Form I
530,000
Form II
1,000,000+
Form III
1,000,000-3,000,000
Final
3,000,000
100%
120,000,000

So his first transformation pretty much doubles his battle power. His second transformation may as well do the same seeing that it's under 3 million. It's my understanding that these transformations aren't actually multiplying his power so much as they "unrestricting" it. So between 3,000,000 and 120,000,000 is his natural battle power. 100% Freeza looks as though he has to exert effort to maintain it. Veins are bulging, muscles are popping, it looks the furthest thing from natural. This is also supported by the fact whenever we typically see Freeza, it's not at 100%. In fact, it seems like a form seldom ever used, if ever. It would make sense that's the case, otherwise the entire restriction idea falls apart. With that said, if the transformations don't actually multiply anything, the 1.3 million statement is rather baseless.

Form I
1,300,000
Form II
2,600,000+
Form III
2,600,000-7,800,000
Final
7,800,000
100%
?

3,000,000 goes into 120,000,000 40 times, making it 2.5% of his total power. If we assume 7,800,000 is 2.5% of his maximum we get: 312,000,000; a 2.6x increase. At this point I'm sure Android 17 would still be able to manhandle him. So that leaves his ghetto trash bling bling form. SSj2 is x100 base. Unless we're going to assume Goku, Gohan and Cell never came close to 1,000,000,000, this final form has to bullshit increase Freeza's battle power, because anime.

Now, we don't know exactly how strong Freeza got in four months, but I'm calling bullshit regardless. Even if we gave Freeza a ton of zenkais, his gains are still incredibly unrealistic, especially considering nobody in the manga makes absurd leaps of power like that from training alone in such short periods of time. I'm sure we would've seen anything amazing he could do through Cell, but instead, the one thing that actually powers him up is a zenkai. In other words, this is entirely new and wasn't even a thought when Freeza was actually a decent villain. Let's assume, let's just assume Goku doubled his power from Freeza to Boo, which I understand is definitely selling him and everyone else short, but let's just do it.

SSJ
300,000,000
SSJ2
600,000,000
SSJ3
2,400,000,000

I find it absolutely ludicrous to believe Freeza made a 20x+ jump in 4 months.

Unrealistic?

Piccolo got 300x stronger in 3 years, yet you're complaining about Freeza? Lol

Freeza was born with a battle power of 120,000,000.

Name one canon character besides Uub who is born with a higher battle power.

You're ignoring statistical comparisons. If X goes from 10 to 100, it's not that impressive. Going from 100 million to one billion is completely different. They're both times 10, yet the latter is far more difficult to achieve and takes far longer without stupidly convenient plot devices. For example, why does Vegeta up the gravity? Why doesn't he just stay at x50? Because at a certain point it becomes inefficient, he has to find a more effective method to gain strength. Of course in this case it's rather simple, he just turns it up to x60 (not exactly a new method, but you get the idea). What possible training could Freeza have done? Nothing special. It's, from what's stated, genetic; that prodigy bullshit. It's the epitome of ultra convenient plot device because anime. Hypothetically, would you have made the argument Freeza's a prodigy and would therefore be on par with Boo if he trained for four months, had Revival of F never been a thing at all? Occam's razor tells me no. What's next? Humans can genetically alter themselves to be Saiyans with a Kaio-ken similar technique, so they can go SSJ?

Was he? All we know is that he didn't train, we don't know about his evolutionary tract or potential. We could easily say Gohan was born with a battle power of 5 billion, unless you're inferring the little shit came out of the womb with a battle power of 120,000,000, which is unsubstantiated.

[Hugo Boss]

I don't think Freeza was born with full 120,000,000 powerlevel, perhaps that power came to him naturally as he grew up. At least, he must have sparred a little with his dad to use that as complement to Goku in their first warm-up test.

A adult Saiyan like Goku or Raditz in another hand would born with a powerlevel like 10 and grow as much to have a powerlevel of 1,500. While a Super Saiyan would be in the realm of 150,000,000.

[Darkprince410]

I don't think Freeza was born with full 120,000,000 powerlevel, perhaps that power came to him naturally as he grew up. At least, he must have sparred a little with his dad to use that as complement to Goku in their first warm-up test.

Freeza's comment toward Goku could have been related to anything really, and not specific to some kind of sparring. For all we know, given the line, he got mouthy toward his father and his father struck him as punishment. All Freeza's line indicates is that Goku is the first person since his parent(s) to ever harm him in any real way.

[khalildh]

I've long since come to the conclusion they aren't trying anymore. Dragon Ball is extremely inconsistent and poorly written, especially outside of the manga. But let's take a look at what we have anyway.

Form I
530,000
Form II
1,000,000+
Form III
1,000,000-3,000,000
Final
3,000,000
100%
120,000,000

So his first transformation pretty much doubles his battle power. His second transformation may as well do the same seeing that it's under 3 million. It's my understanding that these transformations aren't actually multiplying his power so much as they "unrestricting" it. So between 3,000,000 and 120,000,000 is his natural battle power. 100% Freeza looks as though he has to exert effort to maintain it. Veins are bulging, muscles are popping, it looks the furthest thing from natural. This is also supported by the fact whenever we typically see Freeza, it's not at 100%. In fact, it seems like a form seldom ever used, if ever. It would make sense that's the case, otherwise the entire restriction idea falls apart. With that said, if the transformations don't actually multiply anything, the 1.3 million statement is rather baseless.

Form I
1,300,000
Form II
2,600,000+
Form III
2,600,000-7,800,000
Final
7,800,000
100%
?

3,000,000 goes into 120,000,000 40 times, making it 2.5% of his total power. If we assume 7,800,000 is 2.5% of his maximum we get: 312,000,000; a 2.6x increase. At this point I'm sure Android 17 would still be able to manhandle him. So that leaves his ghetto trash bling bling form. SSj2 is x100 base. Unless we're going to assume Goku, Gohan and Cell never came close to 1,000,000,000, this final form has to bullshit increase Freeza's battle power, because anime.

Now, we don't know exactly how strong Freeza got in four months, but I'm calling bullshit regardless. Even if we gave Freeza a ton of zenkais, his gains are still incredibly unrealistic, especially considering nobody in the manga makes absurd leaps of power like that from training alone in such short periods of time. I'm sure we would've seen anything amazing he could do through Cell, but instead, the one thing that actually powers him up is a zenkai. In other words, this is entirely new and wasn't even a thought when Freeza was actually a decent villain. Let's assume, let's just assume Goku doubled his power from Freeza to Boo, which I understand is definitely selling him and everyone else short, but let's just do it.

SSJ
300,000,000
SSJ2
600,000,000
SSJ3
2,400,000,000

I find it absolutely ludicrous to believe Freeza made a 20x+ jump in 4 months.

Unrealistic?

Piccolo got 300x stronger in 3 years, yet you're complaining about Freeza? Lol

Freeza was born with a battle power of 120,000,000.

Name one canon character besides Uub who is born with a higher battle power.

You're ignoring statistical comparisons. If X goes from 10 to 100, it's not that impressive. Going from 100 million to one billion is completely different. They're both times 10, yet the latter is far more difficult to achieve and takes far longer without stupidly convenient plot devices. For example, why does Vegeta up the gravity? Why doesn't he just stay at x50? Because at a certain point it becomes inefficient, he has to find a more effective method to gain strength. Of course in this case it's rather simple, he just turns it up to x60 (not exactly a new method, but you get the idea). What possible training could Freeza have done? Nothing special. It's, from what's stated, genetic; that prodigy bullshit. It's the epitome of ultra convenient plot device because anime. Hypothetically, would you have made the argument Freeza's a prodigy and would therefore be on par with Boo if he trained for four months, had Revival of F never been a thing at all? Occam's razor tells me no. What's next? Humans can genetically alter themselves to be Saiyans with a Kaio-ken similar technique, so they can go SSJ?

Was he? All we know is that he didn't train, we don't know about his evolutionary tract or potential. We could easily say Gohan was born with a battle power of 5 billion, unless you're inferring the little shit came out of the womb with a battle power of 120,000,000, which is unsubstantiated.

I for one did predict Freeza would be able to make incredible gains before this movie. The line of reasoning that I had used went something like.

Freeza is basically known as the strongest being in the universe. Literally in the manga there is nothing in the the galactic empire that even comes close to his final form in strength. His first form at 530,000 is also stronger than every other known and hinted character in the show, the only thing that realistically comes close are Captain Ginyu and an Oozaru King Vegeta. Freeza has never trained, he is lazy, is capable of blowing up planets, and easily killing billions

Freeza getting to be as strong as he gets in the movie makes way more sense than anything Goku, or Gohan has ever done. There is at least logical consistency with Freeza. Freeza is shown to basically be force of nature, something that according to power levels doesn't even make sense. Power levels are invented to show you how absurdly strong Freeza is. Freeza is the very definition of reductio ad absurdum. Goku has to have magical power unlocks and legendary power ups, but Freeza just is.

[Sayo-chan]

I for one did predict Freeza would be able to make incredible gains before this movie. The line of reasoning that I had used went something like.

Freeza is basically known as the strongest being in the universe. Literally in the manga there is nothing in the the galactic empire that even comes close to his final form in strength. His first form at 530,000 is also stronger than every other known and hinted character in the show, the only thing that realistically comes close are Captain Ginyu and an Oozaru King Vegeta. Freeza has never trained, he is lazy, is capable of blowing up planets, and easily killing billions

Freeza getting to be as strong as he gets in the movie makes way more sense than anything Goku, or Gohan has ever done. There is at least logical consistency with Freeza. Freeza is shown to basically be force of nature, something that according to power levels doesn't even make sense. Power levels are invented to show you how absurdly strong Freeza is. Freeza is the very definition of reductio ad absurdum. Goku has to have magical power unlocks and legendary power ups, but Freeza just is.

Uh.... battle powers weren't invented because of Freeza. They were a thing before his invention. Also, Oozaru King Vegeta? When is his battle power ever stated...? I always placed him below Bardock, but I could clearly be wrong.

I agree Freeza does have an amazing build up, but by Cell it's completely negligible because of the slightly sloppy narrative of "X is scary because X is stronger than Y" formula. He's consistently downplayed from the strongest to a blimp, as stated by the Eastern Kaioshin. In fact, it's pushed from the entire universe to a quadrant of it, and it turns out not even that is true; which is why the statistic difference I brought up is so important. When did you predict he would make bullshit gains in an extremely short amount of time, in relevance to fighters such as Cell or Boo+?

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

I took it as simply a line that came out badly, and that he may have meant "1300000 times".
Like, he is assuming that in four months, he will achieve a power level of 120 million X 1300000. So thats what i would estimate his Golden Form at.

But how could anyone even possibly estimate such a thing? Considering Frieza has never trained before and doesn't know what he's capable of, this doesn't make sense to say that.

I see it as his 1st form reaching 1,370,000 from 530,000. This will potentially make his other shelled forms net higher multiplications if he's trained in them long enough. Then when he finds his first ever real transformation (gold form) the multiplier is even higher than 3M to 120M. <<< This at least has logic.

[iop890]

it doesn't make sense for Freeza to be a prodigy

He had a 9-figure battle power without training.

Also, Goku started out with a 3 digit BP, it would make sense for him to start getting diminishing returns far sooner than Freeza.

[Sayo-chan]

it doesn't make sense for Freeza to be a prodigy

He had a 9-figure battle power without training.

Also, Goku started out with a 3 digit BP, it would make sense for him to start getting diminishing returns far sooner than Freeza.

Everyone that makes that argument is making one huge non sequitur. The two don't imply one another.

[iop890]

it doesn't make sense for Freeza to be a prodigy

He had a 9-figure battle power without training.

Also, Goku started out with a 3 digit BP, it would make sense for him to start getting diminishing returns far sooner than Freeza.

Everyone that makes that argument is making one huge non sequitur. The two don't imply one another.

Which? That having a naturally massive BP makes one a prodigy, or that someone starting with a much higher BP than someone else could also have a higher limit?

The first, at least, is the definition of a prodigy, "a person, especially a young one, endowed with exceptional qualities or abilities.".

Also, we're arguing something subjective(whether or not Freeza's power gains "make sense" in a series with very loose internal logic), it's silly to start throwing around formal logic terms.

You implied that it doesn't make sense for Freeza to make such huge power gains. I said that that his higher natural BP could allow him a higher limit, which would be a perfectly reasonable in-universe explanation IMO. It also wouldn't break any of the Dragon Ball Universe's internal rules, AFAIK.

I didn't state "Freeza had a higher starting BP, therefore he must have a higher limit." That would be a non sequitur.