New "Remastered Box Set" Information

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:00 am

Kendamu wrote:They'll be adding to the sides which means there won't be that much cropping from the top and bottom.

The issue is they are providing a screen shot that shows the potential benefit from the widescreen. Its tough to say if THAT much exists on every frame to add a lot to the sides without cropping too much. If they want to to completely convince us, they should show the screen shots where we are questioning the most. Not THAT screenshot (and if you notice, its a random one in a very fast motion sequence. It was tough for me to pick that screenshot out they are providing us).

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:19 pm

I gotta laugh. I really hope that if FUNi does go through with this that they don't recoup the cost of the remastering process. And from the comments I've seen on the various anime news sites, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case.

-Corey

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:16 pm

I just hope that nobody gets hurt.

But, fifty-dollars for the whole "Vegeta" saga.. there has to be a catch, no?
-also-(About Kyle's Herbert's interview) But wouldn't you be expecting more "umph" when he was talking about them? I mean, he is the tournament announcer.

-Rick

ect5150 · Post by **ect5150** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:18 pm

Mr.Piccolo wrote:I just hope that nobody gets hurt. But, fifty-dollars for the whole "Vegeta" saga.. there has to be a catch, no?
-Rick

The best they have done is the price point. Even if you hate the widescreen, you have to admit some of the discounts out there place it at $19.00 or so. Even if you have the Dragon Box, $20 for the Veg Saga with proper subtitles and english with the Jap music is hard to pass up.

Soluzar · Post by **Soluzar** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:22 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:I gotta laugh. I really hope that if FUNi does go through with this that they don't recoup the cost of the remastering process. And from the comments I've seen on the various anime news sites, I wouldn't be too surprised if that was the case.

I think that it's probably the case that there will be enough fans who just don't care to make this set a success. Not everyone really cares about the best possible quality. Some just want as much anime as possible, as cheap as possible.

The price is astoundingly cheap. So it will probably be a success.

jwimz · Post by **jwimz** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:35 pm

As we mentioned last week, our announcement about the Dragon Ball Z Season Sets really perked up the discussions on Dragon Ball Z. Throughout the discussions we came across a lot of questions, so we developed an FAQ to address the main questions and provide some additional information.

Happy Holidays!

Dragon Ball Z Season Sets FAQ

Q. Are the Dragon Ball Z Season Sets going to be available in HD format, or will they play on a regular DVD player.

A. The entire Dragon Ball Z series has been digitally remastered in high definition (1080p) for the highest quality video available. The Dragon Ball Z Season Sets will be released on standard definition DVDs.

Q. What changes were made to the voice and audio track on the Season Sets?

A.This is a multi-part answer:
a. For the first time, all 291 episodes of Dragon Ball Z will be presented consistently, meaning, we have brought back the FUNimation voice actors to the studio to record new lines throughout the Dragon Ball Z series.
b. There are multiple options as to the type of play back

English Voice track with Original Japanese Music - 5.1 Surround
English Voice Track with TV Broadcast Music
Japanese Voice Track with Original Music
Q. How many episodes are on Season One?

A. Season One is 39 episodes. It includes the entire Vegeta Saga.

Q. Will there be compression and video quality issues caused by including 39 episodes in the Dragon Ball Z Season One release?

A. The original plan for the Dragon Ball Z Season One release was to have all 39 episodes on five DVDs, and this is what was stated in our initial announcement. Right after the announcement, the team involved in the digital remastering and restoring of the Dragon Ball Z series noticed that there was potential for video quality issues. This would negate all of our efforts, so the Dragon Ball Z Season One release will now be six DVDs.

Since this is an important topic, here is a little more information on the release. The Dragon Ball Z Season One release will consist of six DVDs. These DVDs are encoded as 480p progressive discs from a 24fps master. This eliminates 6 frames per second of redundant data which translates to 20% less data that needs to be encoded compared to a master recorded at 30fps. With less data to encode, the resulting files will actually require less space on each disc. We havent lowered the bit rate to fit the 7 episodes onto the disc; we simply have less video to worry about.

Q. If the show was animated and shot at a full screen ratio (4:3), how are we getting more viewable content when its cropped and altered to a widescreen (16:9) format?

A. Its important to note, we DID NOT letter box the transfer from previous Dragon Ball Z DVD releases. The new Season Sets were transferred from the original film prints. We sat down with the guys who do this for a living to get their take on many of the comments and questions being raised. This is a bit of a lengthy answer. Lets start with a little information on what happens to images from a DVD when played back on a television and the process of transferring images from film.

1. Overscan

Most of the forum posts with screen captures, and even the ones we initially provided, do not take into account a 4:3 televisions overscan. Ripping a screen capture from a computer software DVD player will not provide a true representation/comparison of the television viewing experience. When this same DVD is played back on a set top DVD player, connected to a 4:3 television, there will be a certain amount, up to 10% from each side (top, bottom and sides) of the image that will not be viewable. This is known as overscan. Every 4:3 television has some amount of overscan; however, the amount of image that is not visible due to overscan will vary from TV to TV.

Viewing a 16:9 image that is played back as letter boxed on a 4:3 television, there is no image lost to the overscanning for the TV. The full 720x480 anamorphic image is viewable. The television still will not display the same amount of video due to the overscan; however, its not as noticeable because the missing video is black. The amount of image from the film that is lost from the top and bottom of the 16:9 transfer will be very similar to the amount of image lost from the top and bottom of a 4:30 transfer due to the televisions overscanning.

2. Cropping

When transferring film to video, there will always be some amount of cropping that occurs. To avoid areas of the original film that are damaged, the lens can be zoomed closer into the film. Once the film has been framed to avoid this damaged area, it could be considered cropped from its original form. This happens on every film transfer. Less damage to the film provides a greater image area to work with, while more damage to the film results in less area in which to work.

The images here show two consecutive frames from the film used in the Dragon Ball Z Season One transfer. The Original Frame is a shot of the actual film with out any processing applied. Damage at the top of the frame can be seen as well as the rounded corners of the exposed area of the film. The 4x3 Full Frame shows the area of the film when it is transferred from the film as 4:3. The 4x3 Overscan shows the image as it is viewable on a 4:3 television, taking in 10% of each side due to overscan. And finally, the 16x9 widescreen illustrates the same image as it is presented on Dragon Ball Z Season One. Notice that after cropping for the film damage as a 4x3 image and allowing for a televisions overscan, there is little difference between the top and bottom of the 4x3 overscan and the 16x9 widescreen images. At the same time, there is clearly more of the film visible on the left and right sides in the 16x9 transfer.

For those of you who would like more information on some of the topics discussed here are a few links. Internet search terms used overscan and dvd players and television overscan.

http://karmaburn.com/dvd_overscan.php
This website compares different DVD players using composite, s-video, and component cables.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overscan
This is a very good explanation of overscan. It even compares PC monitors and TVs, and explains the differences.

http://www.mastersofcinema.org/reviews/ ... beyond.htm
A very good example of how much image is lost in a 4:3 image due to overscan.

FunHack (on Funimation forums) posted this.

b_boult · Post by **b_boult** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:40 pm

At least the bitrate issue has been resolved. Also it appears they're giving the best treatment to the English Voice track with Japanese music option. Unless I'm mistaken (and it is ambiguous), it's the only option with 5.1, almost making the original music THE OFFICIAL DUB SCORE now. Although I can't see how you can achieve a decent surround sound mix with the original music at all, I guess it'll just be for SFX and the voice acting. (Tell me if I don't know what I'm on about).

Soluzar · Post by **Soluzar** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:53 pm

I get a 404 error when trying to view the new comparison images. However, it sounds like it's still cropped, from what is said in this FAQ. Even if it's only cropped a little, that's more cropping than is acceptable.

Unless the new comparison images prove me wrong, I'm definitely still not buying this set.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:58 pm

Wow. I feel more insulted than before.

I'm gonna check a few things, but I'll compose my full reply later. I'm at work at the moment.

-Corey

Soluzar · Post by **Soluzar** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:02 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Wow. I feel more insulted than before.

I feel quite certain that if I were able to see the comparison images, that would be my response too. Is there any chance at all you'd be able to upload them to ImageShack, or some similar site? My internet connection has never liked FUNimation's site, and I just can't get to these new images.

b_boult · Post by **b_boult** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:05 pm

Soluzar wrote:
MajinVejitaXV wrote:Wow. I feel more insulted than before.
I feel quite certain that if I were able to see the comparison images, that would be my response too. Is there any chance at all you'd be able to upload them to ImageShack, or some similar site? My internet connection has never liked FUNimation's site, and I just can't get to these new images.

It's not you, it's the site, because I can't see them either. Also on a side note I like how Funimation assume we all watch our DVD's on TV, because we will certainly notice the cropping issue on our monitors. That being said however, at least the video bitrate issue has been resolved like I said. It's not all gloom and doom.

EDIT: http://www.funimation.com/seasonset/index2.html# this works now

fps_anth · Post by **fps_anth** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:45 pm

At least there will be six discs. That's a good thing. However, that page that shows the four image comparison made me LOL.

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:08 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:http://community.funimation.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=15411

Hm, per FUNi's new FAQ (not the DVD FAQ that we've been told is coming), the reaction to the widescreen announcement has been "anything but positive."

Oh crap, I know I'm going to get in trouble for this...

That particluar FAQ that you read was one that I personally created for the members of the FUNimation Forums that made, like, 10 different threads asking the same questions about the season sets. I wanted to keep them from making duplicate threads, so I made that FAQ, not FUNimation. That thread was written from a fan's perspective (mine); it is not something that FUNi made and they had nothing to do with its production. When I made it, I just though it would educate the FUNi Forum members a little bit. I didn't expect that other people from other sites would read it and think of it as an official message from the company.

The FAQ that FunHack posted on the FUNi Forums is the real one. I just wanted to clear that up. Sorry if I confused anybody with my fan-made FAQ.

Kula · Post by **Kula** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:20 pm

Edit: Ignore my previous ramblings.

The image of Gregory is at a ratio of 4:2.7
Shouldn't it be 4:3 if it's an original unaltered image?

So DBZ wasn't animated 16:9, but cell damage and over scan is what's allowing Funi to get the 16:9 image?

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:22 pm

MagicBox wrote:The FAQ that FunHack posted on the FUNi Forums is the real one. I just wanted to clear that up. Sorry if I confused anybody with my fan-made FAQ.

Ah, I apologize. I thought your FAQ, since it was possibly the most intelligent gathering of information on that forum, had to be an official notice from the company. Hopefully I didn't get you in trouble >_>;;

At least your thread was educational and genuine (and now it's gone?), whereas FunHack's is seemingly just poorly spinning things to look positive. I plan on doing some research because I don't wanna shoot off my mouth without being 100%, but I'm pretty sure I can factually destroy this flimsy argument that FUNi has presented as the 'official word'. Give me a couple of days.

-Corey

P.S. - Can someone tell me where that picture of Kaiosama is from (what episode)? I need it to do my research...

Kula · Post by **Kula** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:44 pm

If you look at the second picture of Gregory on his own, the 16:9 image has more on the top and bottom overall than the 4:3 over-scan.

http://www.funimation.com/seasonset/index2.html#

However, the picture of Gohan that Funi originally posted loses picture on the 16:9 version

This does sound promising, but I'm still not completely convinced.

b_boult · Post by **b_boult** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:58 pm

Kula they actually say that the official FUNimation picture they released initially wasn't a true representation either, however these new ones apparently are.

To be honest, now the bit-rate issue has been resolved, and the fact we ARE apparently getting more image on the sides than we are losing on top of the bottom, the widescreen issue is not as bad a sacrifice. I KNOW the animation was originally framed in 4x3, so I am certain there will be occasions where things look a little cut at the top and bottom, and that the image we gain on the sides is largely irrelevant, but I don't think it'll be a huge deal, and ruin the overall viewing experience. And I think sometimes we have to face facts, as much as I would prefer full screen, virtually all displays rolling out in the future will be 16x9, so it's probably a case of "get used to it" unless you enjoy black bars on the sides, which I personally hate. Also, even if MajinVegetaXV destroys FUNimations argument, which is very possible, let's face facts here as well, it's just a bit of image from a cartoon being lost, it's not the end of the world. The fan in me would prefer full screen like I said already, but when you stop being a nerd for a second you realise it doesn't really matter all things considered.

I was gonna get this set anyway for the price it was, and I am standing by that, because it's not a bad investment.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:06 pm

I'd like to apologize beforehand to anyone who will see the following as me "not being a true fan". So read at your own risk:

I saw their new comparison images. I like what I see. Marketing spin or otherwise I want 39 episodes for $50 or less (depending on where I buy it) and, in my own personal outlook of things, I'm gaining a Hell of a lot more than I'm losing. I never bought the series on DVD all these years (not counting the first three movies put out by Pioneer) because of crap quality and because the price sucked. I even held out on the Ultimate Uncuts. I'm tired of waiting and if I want anything better than this I'll lok to the Dragonbox DVDs in the future when I can afford them and when I'm a bit more fluent in Japanese (which I'm working on right now).

So, FUNi's got my money in this case.

[edit]Maybe years ago when I was 14 or 15 I would've sat and complained until the end of time. Howver, 23-year-old Kendamu is a bit more forgiving.[/edit]

b_boult · Post by **b_boult** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:08 pm

Kendamu wrote:I'd like to apologize beforehand to anyone who will see the following as me "not being a true fan".

If anyone thinks that of you over this they should shoot themselves for being such a nerd, seriously.

Kula · Post by **Kula** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:09 pm

b_boult, I can see where you're coming from in terms of us being nerds. It's just that we're not neccessarily against widescreen, we're against trimming a 4:3 image to make it widescreen. From these new shots it looks as though we'll be losing either a tiny amount or even gaining a little. It's hard to tell from the 2 new comparisons.

If we are indeed getting footage added to the sides with no compromise on the top and and bottom (like Funi originally said) then I will buy these sets. I just think that Funi could have explained things a little better and much earlier than they have done to prevent confusion among the more knowledgable fans who were aware of DBZ being 4:3.