The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ahill1]

I think Goten is stronger because: Dabra ~ Gohan SSJ(buu saga) > Perfect Cell(vs goku) > Goku SSJ(cell games). Goten is not that weaker than Gohan SSJ(buu saga)

Dabra 54
Gohan SSJ(buu saga) 54
Perfect Cell(vs goku) 49
Goten SSJ 46(85% of Gohan)
Goku SSJ cell games 44(89% of Cell)

[Blocky]

Golden Freeza, Golden King Cold, Golden Cooler, and Golden Meta-Cooler vs SSGSS Goku, SSGSS Vegeta, SSGSS Gohan, and SSGSS Kid Gotenks

Gold vs Blue. Who wins?

[Sayo-chan]

I think Goten is stronger because: Dabra ~ Gohan SSJ(buu saga) > Perfect Cell(vs goku) > Goku SSJ(cell games). Goten is not that weaker than Gohan SSJ(buu saga)

Dabra 54
Gohan SSJ(buu saga) 54
Perfect Cell(vs goku) 49
Goten SSJ 46(85% of Gohan)
Goku SSJ cell games 44(89% of Cell)

Uh... Gohan was weaker than his Cell arc counterpart. If you assume that Dabra = SSJ Gohan, it'd look more like this:

Cell arc:
SSJ Goku - 45
SSJ Gohan - 50
Perfect Cell - 55
SSJ2 Gohan - 100
Super Perfect Cell - 100

Boo arc:
SSJ Gohan - 40
Dabra - 40
SSJ Goten - 20

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Why would Goten by 50% of Gohan, though? Their sparring session didn't give me the impression Gohan could effortlessly one-shot Goten.

[Sayo-chan]

Why would Goten by 50% of Gohan, though? Their sparring session didn't give me the impression Gohan could effortlessly one-shot Goten.

Arbitrary numbers. I didn't even notice it was directly half; although, I'm fairly sure SSJ2 Gohan (Cell arc) could easily oneshot Goten.

It also may be due to the fact I really don't like Goten (or Trunks for that matter), so it could be a Freudian slip of sorts.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Well yes I agree Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would one-shot Goten, but their sparring session which was in equal forms look fairly even.

[ahill1]

Why would Goten by 50% of Gohan, though? Their sparring session didn't give me the impression Gohan could effortlessly one-shot Goten.

SSJ2FutureGohan do you agree with Goten SSJ > Goku SSJ(cell games)? Goku compared Dabra to Cell that he fought and then said Dabra was even stronger. Dabra ~ Gohan SSJ (buu saga) > Perfect Cell (vs goku) > Goku (cell games) - Goten can be so far away from Gohan?

[Sayo-chan]

Well yes I agree Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would one-shot Goten, but their sparring session which was in equal forms look fairly even.

If we look at the panels, we can see Gohan's having a rough time, but that doesn't really make it equal. They are just practicing after all.

Gohan's out of shape and really doesn't know what Goten's limits are. If he were to take him as serious as Dabra, he'd be dead. It's kinda how Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano sparred in 1969. Ali would beat Marciano purely because the former is in his prime, whereas the latter isn't. Yet, despite that, Ali struggled and was taken aback by Mariano's devastatingly powerful punches. I see it as the same situation here.

SSJ2FutureGohan do you agree with Goten SSJ > Goku SSJ(cell games)? Goku compared Dabra to Cell that he fought and then said Dabra was even stronger. Dabra ~ Gohan SSJ (buu saga) > Perfect Cell (vs goku) > Goku (cell games) ?

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo
Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”
Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”
Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”

Goku's been dead for 7 years, wasn't on Earth to actually feel Cell's ki, and doesn't know exactly how strong Gohan or Dabra are at that point.

[LonelyShadow]

GT SSJ2 Adult Goku vs Buuhan (for some reason he doesn't have any knowledge of Super Buu abilities.)

You should specify which arc.

If you mean Beginning of GT Goku he gets slaughtered, even at Super Saiyan 3.

Any Goku post-Space battles (M2 and beyond) beats Boo in base.

I guess that there's a small difference in power between the Beginning and End of GT other than Goku having access to his SSJ4 transformation, ,hus, breaking the Ultimate Shenron wish temporarily, I say that because I think that the Zenkai didn't really affect Goku or any of the other characters that much during GT. Super Baby 2 told Kid Goku SSJ3 in his second match that he actually feels weaker than before, even knowing that and he actually received a pretty bad beat on his first match. After that it seems that the writers just forgot about the Zenkai or it just didn't make a great difference compared to the Frieza and Cell saga, with that being said, Goku didn't receive any serious damage during the Super 17 and Shadow Dragons sagas (excluding the battle against Syn and Omega.)

I'm honestly interested, what kind of training did Goku went trough where he manage to get more than 400 times stronger than before in only one year?

I mean, seriously, that's really fast and amazing. I know that GT power levels are laughable, but geez...

[ZombieVito]

SSJ Goten [Post RoSaT] vs SSJ Kid Gohan [CG].
SSJ Kid Trunks [Post RoSaT] vs SSJ Kid Gohan [CG].

[Sayo-chan]

Goten and Trunks are too stupid to win. I'm not sure if those braindead brats could emotionally trigger Gohan to snap into SSJ2, but I feel like if it were a deathmatch, Gohan could force them into a trap or something (kinda like how Piccolo did to 17, or Freeza did to Goku). What's more, I don't think they really improved that much in RoSaT. They probably ate and slept most of the time.

[ahill1]

Well yes I agree Super Saiyan 2 Gohan would one-shot Goten, but their sparring session which was in equal forms look fairly even.

If we look at the panels, we can see Gohan's having a rough time, but that doesn't really make it equal. They are just practicing after all.

Gohan's out of shape and really doesn't know what Goten's limits are. If he were to take him as serious as Dabra, he'd be dead. It's kinda how Muhammad Ali and Rocky Marciano sparred in 1969. Ali would beat Marciano purely because the former is in his prime, whereas the latter isn't. Yet, despite that, Ali struggled and was taken aback by Mariano's devastatingly powerful punches. I see it as the same situation here.

SSJ2FutureGohan do you agree with Goten SSJ > Goku SSJ(cell games)? Goku compared Dabra to Cell that he fought and then said Dabra was even stronger. Dabra ~ Gohan SSJ (buu saga) > Perfect Cell (vs goku) > Goku (cell games) ?

Chapter: 450 (DBZ 256), P2.5, P3.1-4
Context: after Kaioshin again warns against unleashing Boo
Vegeta: “Hmph…The way things are going, this ‘Majin Boo’ guy isn’t going to be anything special, is he? Just like that ‘Dabra’ jerk…[ ] I’m saying that this ‘Dabra’ guy doesn’t seem as bad as you two feared. Looking at his attacks and movement outside earlier, it seems that if we just watch out for his spit, then we should manage something. I can’t call Kibito anything but a bumbler for getting done-in like that…”
Kaioshin: “…Is-is that true, Son Goku?...”
Goku: “Yeah…Well, even if that wasn’t him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called ‘Cell’…[Dabra]’s probably about as strong as him…”

Goku's been dead for 7 years, wasn't on Earth to actually feel Cell's ki, and doesn't know exactly how strong Gohan or Dabra are at that point.

Agreed. Maybe Goku was comparing Dabra and Cell as a general

[Sayo-chan]

That's likely the case. Goku's clearly confident that both individually and as a group that Dabra was no real threat. This means that Goku is confident they could do the same if Cell was around. He's pretty much comparing levels of confidence he has.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gohan's out of shape and really doesn't know what Goten's limits are. If he were to take him as serious as Dabra, he'd be dead.

Can you back that claim up? What is there actually saying Gohan wasn't serious against Goten, especially here, where Gohan is shown flaring his aura, gritting his teeth, and sweating profusely? Yes Gohan was out of shape, but he's still clearly powerful since we see him keeping up with Dabra. We should also factor in that Goten has no real skill to begin with.

I guess that there's a small difference in power between the Beginning and End of GT other than Goku having access to his SSJ4 transformation.

I'm honestly interested, what kind of training did Goku went trough where he manage to get more than 400 times stronger than before in only one year?

Read here, start around 3 or so. Also, the Super Saiyan multipliers appear to be much smaller, Rild's comment on Goku's transformation for example implies Super Saiyan is like 2.5x base or so.

[Sayo-chan]

Can you back that claim up?

He is out of shape. Vegeta states he's weaker than before:

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.1-4
Goku: “Gohan, it’s your turn next, but have you trained properly?”
Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”

Chapter: 455 (DBZ 261), P6.1-2
Context: as Dabra fights Gohan
Goku: “Magic, huh? [Dabra]’s way stronger than I thought, ain’t he?”
Vegeta: “Hmph…Even so, he’s not an opponent [he? we?] can’t win against. [Gohan]’s so pathetic…So much so that he was stronger as a brat…”
Goku: “He really did slack off!”

Chapter: 459 (DBZ 265), P2.2-3
Badidi: “How about it, Dabra? Just to be sure, do you have confidence that you can defeat that Earthling [Gohan]?”
Dabra: “Naturally. I fought him a little bit before, after all. There’s no doubt that I can take care of trash like that.”

All evidence suggests he's weaker and not a real threat to the enemy. Is Gohan trying to kill Goten? What is there to suggest it's anything beyond the Marciano/Ali scenario I gave? Gohan's obviously not going to attempt to kill his brother.

What is there actually saying Gohan wasn't serious against Goten, especially here, where Gohan is shown flaring his aura, gritting his teeth, and sweating profusely?

There's a difference between a spar you're using to get back into shape and fighting for your life. If Goten was Dabra, it wouldn't be the same at all.

Yes Gohan was out of shape, but he's still clearly powerful since we see him keeping up with Dabra. We should also factor in that Goten has no real skill to begin with.

Keeping up? Dabra later states Gohan's trash, implying he wasn't giving it his all. Goten's a glass cannon. If you hit him too hard he'll probably cry.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

He is out of shape. Vegeta states he's weaker than before:

I never denied Gohan being weaker.

All evidence suggests he's weaker and not a real threat to the enemy. Is Gohan trying to kill Goten? What is there to suggest it's anything beyond the Marciano/Ali scenario I gave? Gohan's obviously not going to attempt to kill his brother.

How is sparring going to be effective for Gohan if he has to hold back a lot of power? The point of sparring was to get back into shape and get back some of his old strength. Holding back a shit ton of power won't help at all, Goku even said Gohan would slow him down until Gohan became a Super Saiyan.

There's a difference between a spar you're using to get back into shape and fighting for your life.

Wha-? So sparring now means you struggle with someone much weaker than you? That doesn't explain these two panels.

If Goten was Dabra, it wouldn't be the same at all.

Prove it?

Keeping up? Dabra later states Gohan's trash, implying he wasn't giving it his all. Goten's a glass cannon. If you hit him too hard he'll probably cry.

Villain arrogance.

Why would Dabra not being giving it his all? His whole objective was to damage Gohan, what possible reason would Dabra have to not be going all out?

[Sayo-chan]

I never denied Gohan being weaker.

Then you shouldn't have included it in the quote.

How is sparring going to be effective for Gohan if he has to hold back a lot of power?

Gohan has absolutely no idea how strong Goten is and severely underestimates him. If he's underestimating him, he's already planning to hold back.

The point of sparring was to get back into shape and get back some of his old strength.

Which doesn't require him to use his maximum power.

Holding back a shit ton of power won't help at all,

Back up your claim.

Goku even said Gohan would slow him down until Gohan became a Super Saiyan.

You mean Goten? If so, please provide a quote so I know what you're talking about.

Wha-? So sparring now means you struggle with someone much weaker than you?

Straw-man. How is that remotely implied? The sparing doesn't last long enough for anything significant to happen, namely due to Goten's inability to fly. Whether you struggle with someone stronger or weaker is completely irrelevant to the concept.

That doesn't explain these two panels.

Page 1: Neither Goku nor Gohan were out of shape. Goku obviously wasn't giving it his all and knew what Gohan was going to put out, and if Gohan were a villain like Dabra in that panel, he'd be dead.
Page 2: Gohan was clearly on the top of his one-armed game. He knew what Trunks was capable of just like Goku did above.

Prove it?

Gohan was taken aback in the same way that Ali was with Marciano.

He's clearly pissed off at Dabra, who shows no signs of wearing down. Was Gohan angry in the slightest at Goten? Surprised and rusty, that's it.

Villain arrogance.

Nope. I'm rejecting your claim outright. Dabra only got bested once in the entire fight, to which it only resulted in a broken sword. He sustained no injuries whatsoever. Vegeta and Goku both state he's a slacker, which results in both of their confidences in him diminishing. There's nothing to suggest Dabra wouldn't win if Gohan didn't have some sort of deus ex rage boost like he did against Cell.

Why would Dabra not being giving it his all? His whole objective was to damage Gohan, what possible reason would Dabra have to not be going all out?

Because he implies he could easily beat Gohan, which is supported by the fact he didn't have a rough time with him. More over, look at the fight. Dabra looks like he's making sport of him. He distracts him with a flamethrower, then smashes him deep underwater with a heavy ki attack. As Gohan emerges from the water, he's smirking at his disdain. Gohan rages at him to no avail. This is also around the time Dabra takes an interest in Vegeta. Up until this point the battles been completely one-sided. Then he makes the sword that gets broken and they completely focus on Vegeta. That doesn't sound like Dabra's going 100% "I'm going to slaughter you". Compare it to 100% Freeza going all out against SSJ Goku. Dabra's not even breaking a sweat.

In short, he didn't need to. Gohan wasn't putting up much of a fight. He surprised him once, and by that time he was already focusing on Vegeta. You might make an argument that Dabra was initially, but even then, it still supports his claim that Gohan's trash.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Gohan has absolutely no idea how strong Goten is and severely underestimates him. If he's underestimating him, he's already planning to hold back.

The scan I posted was after their first sparring session, Gohan had already known Goten's power.

Which doesn't require him to use his maximum power.

It's ineffective if he does.

Can you actually prove he wasn't using his full power? Because if you can just say he is without evidence, what's stopping me from saying Goten is holding back?

Back up your claim.

You mean Goten? If so, please provide a quote so I know what you're talking about.

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P8.3-5
Context: as Goku and Gohan start training in the Room of Spirit and Time
Gohan: "Dad, am I going to get in the way of your training?"
Goku: "At first, yeah. But once you’re able to become a Super Saiyan, you’ll really come in handy as a training partner, Gohan. That’s my ideal, anyway. Obviously I intend to obtain power surpassing Super Saiyan. I want to be stronger than anyone, after all. But Gohan, I intend for you to even further surpass me.”

Weak partner = ineffective training

Straw-man. How is that remotely implied? The sparing doesn't last long enough for anything significant to happen, namely due to Goten's inability to fly. Whether you struggle with someone stronger or weaker is completely irrelevant to the concept.

I am talking about their second session, not the first one.

What "concept"? When in Dragon Ball has sparring ever been about holding back?

Secondly, how is showing Goten being on par with Gohan and having Gohan express concern about being surpassed a good way for Toriyama to show Goten is nowhere Gohan? That's not even logical.

Page 1: Neither Goku nor Gohan were out of shape. Goku obviously wasn't giving it his all and knew what Gohan was going to put out, and if Gohan were a villain like Dabra in that panel, he'd be dead.
Page 2: Gohan was clearly on the top of his one-armed game. He knew what Trunks was capable of just like Goku did above.

Gohan knew what Goten was capable of in the scan I posted, yet does not have an easy-going expression like Goku or Future Gohan in the scans I posted. If Goten was much weaker, you'd think their sparring session would replicate those one-sided ones posted above.

Gohan was taken aback in the same way that Ali was with Marciano.

He's clearly pissed off at Dabra, who shows no signs of wearing down. Was Gohan angry in the slightest at Goten? Surprised and rusty, that's it.

He's angry because he can't overwhelm Dabra in an important fight that potentially affects the Earth's fate and a new possible villain showing up. He has a reason to be frustrated.

Why would he be angry at Goten? For being a good sparring partner who can give him a good exercise?

Nope. I'm rejecting your claim outright. Dabra only got bested once in the entire fight, to which it only resulted in a broken sword. He sustained no injuries whatsoever. Vegeta and Goku both state he's a slacker, which results in both of their confidences in him diminishing. There's nothing to suggest Dabra wouldn't win if Gohan didn't have some sort of dues ex rage boost like he did against Cell.

If anyone looked advantaged it was Gohan. Dabra was resorting to magic trickery and couldn't even damage / overwhelm a rusty Gohan.

Because he implies he could easily beat Gohan, which is supported by the fact he didn't have a rough time with him. More over, look at the fight. Dabra looks like he's making sport of him. He distracts him with a flamethrower, then smashes him deep underwater with a heavy ki attack. As Gohan emerges from the water, he's smirking at his disdain. Gohan rages at him to no avail. This is also around the time Dabra takes an interest in Vegeta. Up until this point the battles been completely one-sided. Then he makes the sword that gets broken and they completely focus on Vegeta. That doesn't sound like Dabra's going 100% "I'm going to slaughter you". Compare it to 100% Freeza going all out against SSJ Goku. Dabra's not even breaking a sweat.

There is not a single reason for him not to be going all out. This isn't an exhibition match, this is an important match to help revive Boo, Bobbidi is even getting frustrated at Dabra not gathering any energy. Is Dabra letting down his master just for the lulz of it?

[Sayo-chan]

The scan I posted was after their first sparring session, Gohan had already known Goten's power.

I didn't notice that. However, that still applies to their first spar. The second image serves as a "they trained for the tournament" time skip. We don't know what happened before or after. Just that they're both going at it pretty good.

It's ineffective if he does.

Can you actually prove he wasn't using his full power? Because if you can just say he is without evidence, what's stopping me from saying Goten is holding back?

I fail to see it as being ineffective. It's like going to the gym. You don't max every day. That'd be incredibly stupid and inefficient of someone to do, especially after a 7 year hiatus.

In the first sparing session he underestimated him. He has no battle aura. He isn't pissed off. There's no reason to assume he is.

Goten could be holding back, and maybe he is, simply due to his inexperience.

Chapter: 377 (DBZ 183), P8.3-5
Context: as Goku and Gohan start training in the Room of Spirit and Time
Gohan: "Dad, am I going to get in the way of your training?"
Goku: "At first, yeah. But once you’re able to become a Super Saiyan, you’ll really come in handy as a training partner, Gohan. That’s my ideal, anyway. Obviously I intend to obtain power surpassing Super Saiyan. I want to be stronger than anyone, after all. But Gohan, I intend for you to even further surpass me.”
Okay, now that the context is here I understand what you were getting at. Yes that's true when the gap is so monumental. Goku could kill Gohan with one super charged Kamehameha before he was SSJ, so of course he'd get in the way.

Weak partner = ineffective training

You have to prove that too, because that's not evidence; it's just another claim. Goten is weaker than Gohan regardless of this debate sheerly because he has SSJ2 under his obi. So no matter how you slice it, your claim makes his training ineffective. In the grand scheme of it all, I agree, however, as far as getting back into the habit of things, I find it to be quite useful. Just because he's weaker doesn't mean he isn't a valuable asset to Gohan, especially because he's literally the only one he has to train with that he wouldn't accidentally kill. So Goten's weaker, and that there's some use to his training; that contradicts your claim. We have no idea what the story is behind the panel you posted, so what we really have to go by is the clear as day Gohan's surprised and rusty sequence.

I am talking about their second session, not the first one.

The session that has virtually no context.

What "concept"? When in Dragon Ball has sparring ever been about holding back?

The concept of sparing. You don't always go all out, especially if your partner isn't as strong as you. I'd also wager sparing to be ineffective by the Cell arc for the adults. What exactly does it do? They already have decades of battle experience, combined with the facts martial arts are essentially useless, I'd say it's no wonder the times we see Vegeta and Goku training are mostly alone.

Secondly, how is showing Goten being on par with Gohan and having Gohan express concern about being surpassed a good way for Toriyama to show Goten is nowhere Gohan? That's not even logical.

He is nowhere near him by sheer fact he has SSJ2. Goten's merely progressing at a faster rate. He's stronger than Gohan was at that age. If he keeps progressing at the same rate, he'll be far stronger. I also wouldn't use "Why would Toriyama do this" as an excuse for anything, especially when it's subjective to interpretation.

Gohan knew what Goten was capable of in the scan I posted, yet does not have an easy-going expression like Goku or Future Gohan in the scans I posted. If Goten was much weaker, you'd think their sparring session would replicate those one-sided ones posted above.

There's no context for us to go on beyond, "wow they're really going at it." Easy going? Gohan's sweating in the one with Trunks. The time they've been training is a variable you're not accounting for, alongside the power gaps between the 6 fighters.

He's angry because he can't overwhelm Dabra in an important fight that potentially affects the Earth's fate and a new possible villain showing up. He has a reason to be frustrated.

...And? You're expecting me to believe Gohan's less of a threat when he's not angry?

Why would he be angry at Goten? For being a good sparring partner who can give him a good exercise?

Uh... I didn't say he would be. I'm not even sure why you're asking this. I stated there's a clear difference in Gohan's demeanor which affects his battle power output and fighting style.

If anyone looked advantaged it was Gohan. Dabra was resorting to magic trickery and couldn't even damage / overwhelm a rusty Gohan.

Please back up your claim that he had to "resort" to magic, as opposed to the fact he was just using it because he had it. By your logic, anyone that uses any special powers they have are merely resorting to them. Dabra did damage Gohan, and it pissed him off. That isn't debatable. There's not a single shred of evidence to support Gohan as having an advantage.

There is not a single reason for him not to be going all out.

He didn't need to. Gohan wasn't putting up much of a fight. He surprised him once, and by that time he was already focusing on Vegeta. You might make an argument that Dabra was initially, but even then, it still supports his claim that Gohan's trash.

This isn't an exhibition match, this is an important match to help revive Boo, Bobbidi is even getting frustrated at Dabra not gathering any energy.

To which Dabra expresses not a care in the world.

Is Dabra letting down his master just for the lulz of it?

Considering Dabra didn't let him down, no. Being a headstrong opponent like Gohan won't get Dabra anywhere. I already explained the battle sequence. You haven't provided any counters to what I've stated. He bested him, let a few opportunities slip by, which makes me infer he's not going all out, and then focused on Vegeta.

[LonelyShadow]

I guess that there's a small difference in power between the Beginning and End of GT other than Goku having access to his SSJ4 transformation.

I'm honestly interested, what kind of training did Goku went trough where he manage to get more than 400 times stronger than before in only one year?

Read here, start around 3 or so. Also, the Super Saiyan multipliers appear to be much smaller, Rild's comment on Goku's transformation for example implies Super Saiyan is like 2.5x base or so.

I believe you're taking every character words a little bit too literal, just like Spanish Bloodborne translators, I'm not trying to offend you, but I don't take fans conclusions as anything official.

I honestly don't know why many people believe that Goku in EoZ is really that strong. Uub didn't know how to control his own power, every character was impressed because he was just a kid and he was fighting at the same level as Base Goku.

7 years of intense training in the Other World, where he is able to have any sort equipment that helps him in improving his abilities, thanks to the Kai's abilities and probably sparing with Paikuhan and he unlocked the SSJ2 and SSJ3, the current result is shown by Majin Vegeta's implying that he was much stronger than Gohan during the Cell Games (7 years ago), we can conclude that he is stronger, but not vastly. 10 years passed since the Kid Buu's defeat, Goku doesn't have anything that helps him like in the Other World, the best thing he could have was having a little spar with Goten and if you take the Tarble's OVA canon to GT he wasn't shown training 100% of the time.

During Namek, Goku used a Super Kamehameha combined with the Kaio-ken x20 against 50% Frieza. He hurt his hand.

He turned Super Saiyan and he dominated him in every way. I don't think that GT changed space and reality in order to make the SSJ transformation much weaker, thus, making Base GT Goku-sama look much stronger in comparison.

At the End of Z, Base Goku could be, at best, between the Androids and Imperfect Cell, which is an amazing improvement considering that after many years of training (Namek, the Androids and the Other World), Goku in his base form didn't even manage to get on the exact level as 100% Frieza.

Also, your post didn't explain how Base Goku (Shadow Dragons saga) >>> SSJ3 Goku (Beginning of GT) >.<

At one moment Goku is a little stronger than Kid Buu, at another he is leagues above Ultimate Gohan, Buuhan and Chocolate Vegetto. I believe GT is more consistent than that (but just a tiny little bit.)