Older DBZ movies compared to BoG/FnF

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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:16 pm

The older movies were most a bunch of cheap fanservice(in terms of plot and characters) with great animation/art.


Let's take as example the Android 13 movie. All the new 3 androids are empty characters in personality and development. The plot is extremely empty too. The Androids 14 and 15 come to the city and destroy everything, so the Z warriors just start a big fight, and Android 13 comes, the others 2 are defeated, and without any consistant reason, he absorbs the broken parts of them(they WERE BROKEN), so Goku absorbs the Genki Dama and finish him. The end. And I didn't have said that this movie(as almost all the others, with exception of the 9 and the 13) cannot be fixed in any part of the manga's chronogical line.

The only aspects that the older movies are actually better than the new ones are the animation/art, and maybe...the voice acting(for japanese, when we compare with BOG at least, I didn't had saw Fukkatsu no F in japanese yet). But in plot and characters, almost all the older movies are just totally nonsense fanservice.
ekrolo2 wrote:BoG is the best one for sure. FnF is on the same tier as the shitty 90s Toei movies imo. If it was just a side story not really relevant to the big picture I'd probably call it the best of the "generic DBZ movies" but as a follow up to BoG it's a piece of crap. I'd easily put Dead Zone, Worlds Strongest, Cooler 1, Fusion Reborn and Wrath of the Dragon above it purely on an enjoyment & visual level.
BoG has even a better plot than RoF.
FoolsGil wrote:None of them compare. Tree of Might can be considered one of the best and it's nowhere near Resurrection of F in fight scenes or Battle of Gods in story.
Tree of Might, as the Android 13 and almost all the rest(maybe with exception of Bojack Unbound and that Hirudegarn Movie), is just a cheap fanservice story with very good animation. Battle of Gods has a 100X better plot.

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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:50 pm

I find Movie 9 to be overrated. The movie was nothing special and they did had something cool going for it with the whole intergalactic tenkachi budokai, but ditch the whole thing when Bojack shows up. Bojack and his gang suck. Bojack is just another generic bad guy with no personality and no motivation besides to take over the world. Bojack himself offers nothing new that we haven't seen before. He transforms into a bigger green version of himself. Garlic Jr and Freeza did the same thing.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:05 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I find Movie 9 to be overrated. The movie was nothing special and they did had something cool going for it with the whole intergalactic tenkachi budokai, but ditch the whole thing when Bojack shows up. Bojack and his gang suck. Bojack is just another generic bad guy with no personality and no motivation besides to take over the world. Bojack himself offers nothing new that we haven't seen before. He transforms into a bigger green version of himself. Garlic Jr and Freeza did the same thing.
I agree that Bojack and his crew are terrible. In fact, they may be the worst DBZ movie villains in terms of personality, backstory, and motive (?).

That said, Bojack Unbound is my third favorite DBZ movie. I guess you can call it a guilty pleasure. The setting is really great (both environment and time period); the art is exceptional; it has plenty of fan service; the concept at the beginning is awesome; and the return of SSJ2 Kid Gohan makes me fangasm. Honestly, the biggest downfall of the movie is, unfortunately, its set of villains, which is a shame because they possess really good designs.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:43 am

fadeddreams5 wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:I find Movie 9 to be overrated. The movie was nothing special and they did had something cool going for it with the whole intergalactic tenkachi budokai, but ditch the whole thing when Bojack shows up. Bojack and his gang suck. Bojack is just another generic bad guy with no personality and no motivation besides to take over the world. Bojack himself offers nothing new that we haven't seen before. He transforms into a bigger green version of himself. Garlic Jr and Freeza did the same thing.
I agree that Bojack and his crew are terrible. In fact, they may be the worst DBZ movie villains in terms of personality, backstory, and motive (?).

That said, Bojack Unbound is my third favorite DBZ movie. I guess you can call it a guilty pleasure. The setting is really great (both environment and time period); the art is exceptional; it has plenty of fan service; the concept at the beginning is awesome; and the return of SSJ2 Kid Gohan makes me fangasm. Honestly, the biggest downfall of the movie is, unfortunately, its set of villains, which is a shame because they possess really good designs.
Ehhh...


Comparing only the older movies, Bojack and his crew are probably...the best villains.

They are mediocre characters with awful backgrounds and developments. But they are not retcon of any villian of the series/manga(as most part part of the older villains). They are original, in oposition of Garlic Jr.(more serious and evil Pilaf), Androids 13/14/15(retcons of the Androids), or Cooler(retcon of Frieza), for examples . Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters. Well, maybe Bojack had that transformation thing inspired by Cell, but besides that, he is not a shitty copy of other villain.

The movie 8 is not a great thing in plot and history, but is better than most of the other older movies.

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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Theophrastus » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:35 am

SaintEvolution wrote:Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters. Well, maybe Bojack had that transformation thing inspired by Cell, but besides that, he is not a shitty copy of other villain.
Dr. Wheelo in Movie 2 was relatively original too, wasn't he?

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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Sayo-chan » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:47 am

I guess I'll take the contrarian position and state that most of the old movies are superior to the new ones in every way. BoGs has mediocre animation coupled with horrendous artwork and a really lame plot. Beerus and Whis are just continuing the broken chain of Gods > gods > gods because mysticism has no meaning anymore in the franchise. The design for God Goku is laughable, it's pretty much Kaio-ken reject Goku operating off a cringeworthy shonen plot device. RoF isn't much better. The art is slightly more consistent and the animation is a bit more cohesive, but the lackadaisical plot combined with the worst design Freeza's ever had, makes it just barely above BoGs in terms of quality. I'll take the first three Z movies over these two any day.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by VintageSaiyan » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:54 am

SaintEvolution wrote:
BoG has even a better plot than RoF.
No way. BoG was a slice of life, out of character, retconning piece of nonsense. RoF isn't much better, but it's premise is much better even though it was poorly excecuted.

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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:08 am

Theophrastus wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters. Well, maybe Bojack had that transformation thing inspired by Cell, but besides that, he is not a shitty copy of other villain.
Dr. Wheelo in Movie 2 was relatively original too, wasn't he?
He was. He had a original backstory which was good and interesting. He has a motivation that is pretty decent and is original too. Not to mention his design is pretty neat too. In a critical speaking level, Dr. Uiro is the probably the best written villain in the original 13 movies. You can't say that he is a copy from Dr. Gero since his character was created before Dr. Gero was made in the manga.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:30 am

Problem I had with BoG is that it had a few cringy moments. There was that awful, awful "ritual" that was just cliched and lame. It was not cool. Vegeta's "my Bulma!" line and subsequent assault was cringe inducing too.

My absolute favourite movie, one that had great characters, great lore, great backstory, and the best animation and art style in the whole franchise: Dead Zone. I love Dead Zone because it had the villain succeed in his plans, with interesting villains (who could actually be a threat to the protagonists). Kami (and Piccolo) had motive to be involved with Garlic Junior with an amazingly epic backstory about gods (the complete opposite to BoG). Dead Zone's ritual of becoming a god was way more enticing and interesting than the SSJ God CRAP!!! Plus, the backstory had a really cool looking art style with top of the line animation. The fight scenes were reminiscent to Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee films, but never gone further than a homage, and therefore, still remained very original and cool. The villains were really cool and intimidating and their deaths really packed a punch, becoming very memorable. Super powers weren't overdone and the Kamehameha was used only once and as a last resort to (successfully) kill the bad guys.

Dead Zone also had the best music placement, and in my opinion the best of any DBZ soundtrack. It used Makafushigi Adventure motifs in the music (which I still think should be used!!!). Kami's theme music is just so awesome and never used again. It had an excellent balance and use of music placement where silence was used to build ambiance and tension, whereas the music exploded onto the speakers during the fights or during moments of dread.

The art style is identical to the Cha La Head Cha La desings, which should be the style that represents DBZ! The locations are colourful like DBZ, but different enough to be instantly recognizable. BoG is just plain and shiny. I think the new movies of shininess is a great metaphor for modern DBZ: it's shiny but lacks real substance.

Dead Zone had a simple plot, but built up the characters and reminds the audience who they are without directly telling them. That's why it makes a great movie. You first see Goku's old house, harking back to Dragonball episode 1, where the first shots are of Goku's home and the surrounding areas. Next we see Gohan, and we are reminded without being told he is Goku's son because of the location he is living in. That's brilliant film work. We are told that Goku won the Strongest Under the Heavens Tournament, which is enough backstory for Goku we need to remind us who he is and how he is connected to Piccolo. So all the main characters in the film have a connection to each other in some ways. It's like a bad love triangle! Unlike later movies, Dead Zone gives this kind of character development in a 45 minute runtime. It's amazing how they did it, and I feel it was effective in doing so. Therefore, every main character has a reason to be there and interact with each other.

Garlic Junior knows about the Dragonballs, not from some lame cliche or unexplained reason, but because he has a relation to God himself. Garlic Junior getting his wish is ironic (because without Kami there are no Dragonballs, and Garlic WANTS Kami dead). I feel MistareFusion could do a better analysis of why Garlic is a great villain and explain this irony better than I can. But it makes for a great villain and yang to Dragonball's ying. Garlic is the darkness and Kami is the light. However, for darkness to exist, there needs to be light. Garlic's purposes and goals need Kami, and he wouldn't exist or have any reason to do what he does without Kami. Damn. That's brilliant character motivation. This is why I love Dead Zone.

Piccolo is forced into this plot because of Kami, and him being there is because he has no choice. He's the chemical reaction to the catalysts of the plot. And that's his evil character: he reacts wildly like fire but will eventually burn out at the end. And the end Piccolo just decides to leave things for another day much like the last Tenkaichi Budokai.


Goku is there not to save the world like later Toei Gokus. Goku is there for his son only, and kicks ass to get his son back. He doesn't care about Garlic using the Dragonballs for his own evil desires. Goku doesn't give any fucks to Garlic Junior or the Dragonballs. He's there to rescue his son only. That's it. He even tells Kami to get the hell away and tells Garlic that his problems with Kami doesn't involve him at all. He's not there to make Garlic a good guy, nor is he there to stop his evilness. He runs past Garlic Jr to get his son! Haha! That's really a Toriyama Goku move. Later movie Gokus would have had some speech of stopping Garlic and his evil deeds and stop him now before he kills anybody else. But that isn't present here. He doesn't even WANT TO FIGHT GARLIC!! The destruction that the Dead Zone itself causes means nothing to Goku. He doesn't make any remark that it will destroy the world.

Krillin is a great comic relief to the rest of the dark tone of the movie, and I feel that was necessary to have. Krillin is also there to give Goku a reason to fight Garlic without worrying about his son. Good enough.

Dead Zone is an absolutely underrated film. It wasn't a typical Toei film, and actually had character motivations and development. It had a great atmosphere and an interesting villain. Goku is just morally neutral and isn't "ally to good" like later Toei films. Piccolo is not a Goku underling, and acts to his own drum beat.

I have been thinking about doing a review on this film, and I'm kinda hoping to see MistareFusion's view on it. I hope he agrees.

Dead Zone is really much better film than BoG. Dead Zone does better mystical god lore than BoG does and doesn't need ridiculous over powered superman-esque plot devices and fights. Dead Zone has a less is more plot, with many fine details hidden in the easily understood plot. Plus, I find Dead Zone has much more replay value than BoG.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:36 am

Theophrastus wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters. Well, maybe Bojack had that transformation thing inspired by Cell, but besides that, he is not a shitty copy of other villain.
Dr. Wheelo in Movie 2 was relatively original too, wasn't he?
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Theophrastus wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:Only Broly(only in the 8th Movie) and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember) are original characters. Well, maybe Bojack had that transformation thing inspired by Cell, but besides that, he is not a shitty copy of other villain.
Dr. Wheelo in Movie 2 was relatively original too, wasn't he?
He was. He had a original backstory which was good and interesting. He has a motivation that is pretty decent and is original too. Not to mention his design is pretty neat too. In a critical speaking level, Dr. Uiro is the probably the best written villain in the original 13 movies. You can't say that he is a copy from Dr. Gero since his character was created before Dr. Gero was made in the manga.
Dr. Gero/Red Ribbon.

Also, the second movie was did in 1990 or 1991. The manga was not already in the Android Saga?

Anyway, the second movie is not much better than the others, since he has many chronological errors too.
Attitudefan wrote:Problem I had with BoG is that it had a few cringy moments. There was that awful, awful "ritual" that was just cliched and lame. It was not cool. Vegeta's "my Bulma!" line and subsequent assault was cringe inducing too. ....
A movie doesn't have to be "cool" to being good in plot and characters. And Dead Zone best movie?! Really?!

REALLY?!

I don't have to say much more. Dead Zone, excepting for the animation, is one of the shittiest Dragon Ball Movies ever. The backstory between Kami and Garlic was good, but the execution was lame and schizophrenic.
VintageSaiyan wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:
BoG has even a better plot than RoF.
No way. BoG was a slice of life, out of character, retconning piece of nonsense. RoF isn't much better, but it's premise is much better even though it was poorly excecuted.
No. You are confusing good plot with battles and action. BOG has a better and less mistaken plot than ROF(but the 2 are better than the old movies).

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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:48 am

I think BoG should in the same category as the 4 DB films and not the DBZ films. It didn't carry the same vibes to me. Beerus disappointed me, actually, as not only a Dragon Ball movie villain, but a Dragon Ball villain. He didn't off as a being that should be feared or respected, but a caricature of he is SUPPOSED to be. Even Bio-Broly (yes, I went there) was more threatening than Beerus in BoG. He is near Pilaf-level in terms of a villain.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Sayo-chan » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:00 am

SaintEvolution wrote: A movie doesn't have to be "cool" to being good in plot and characters. And Dead Zone best movie?! Really?!
What does cool have to do with being cringey? I had to pause the movie when I first saw it a few times because of the cringe, specifically the "that's my Bulma" scene. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling.
SaintEvolution wrote:I don't have to say much more. Dead Zone, excepting for the animation, is one of the shittiest Dragon Ball Movies ever. The backstory between Kami and Garlic was good, but the execution was lame and schizophrenic.
Why was it lame? The choreographing in the fight scenes was very well articulated. There's actually martial arts going on, which can't be said about BoG.

How was the execution "schizophrenic"?
SaintEvolution wrote:No. You are confusing good plot with battles and action. BOG has a better and less mistaken plot than ROF(but the 2 are better than the old movies).
What exactly are you trying to say? How is anything being confused? There was hardly a plot in BoG and the fighting was mediocre.
SaintEvolution wrote: Dr. Gero/Red Ribbon.

Also, the second movie was did in 1990 or 1991. The manga was not already in the Android Saga?

Anyway, the second movie is not much better than the others, since he has many chronological errors too.
No. Zarbon was still alive in the manga when the 2nd movie was released in march of 1990. So Dr. Gero wasn't a thing yet and I hardly see the movie as a RRA arc rip off.

Since when do chronological errors mean a DBZ movie isn't any good? It takes place in a different continuity, there, fixed.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Attitudefan » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:12 am

A movie doesn't have to be "cool" to being good in plot and characters. And Dead Zone best movie?! Really?!

REALLY?!

I don't have to say much more. Dead Zone, excepting for the animation, is one of the shittiest Dragon Ball Movies ever. The backstory between Kami and Garlic was good, but the execution was lame and schizophrenic.
I feel you didn't read the rest of my post. I mean, I made some reasoning to why it's execution isn't bad at all. Your assertions are loaded but I would like evidence to why it is "lame and schizophrenic." Am I wrong in my belief in how they used imagery as a motif to explain plot within 45 minutes because there wasn't time to go into every little detail? Do you think the "love triangle" that brought all the protagonists together executed poorly? Is Goku actually portrayed more accurately in Dead Zone than most if not all other Toei movies?

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. But, I hoped for a more elaborate post. It feels like you had a bit of a knee jerk reaction to my thesis in why Dead Zone is better than BoG in moving its plot and character development.

The only problem I have is the Gohan scene. Even then, it's actually hilarious. He got drunk/high, and I feel the animators just wanted to show off their skills. It's fun all around and a good break from the seriousness of the movie. You can't have DBZ take itself too seriously. I find the Gohan scene in World's Strongest to be out of place, but not Dead Zone's scene.

The art, the fighting, and even the plot was all entertaining. To me, there's very little cons to the Dead Zone film compared to all other films. Dead Zone has cool and interesting villains, great choreography, well set-up tension, memorable music, a less is more plot, and its focus isn't just on Goku, it is on everybody. Everybody in the film has importance and reasoning to be where they are.

BoG's fight with Goku and Beerus even feels like its trying too hard to be "cool." Goku does this weird glance as he slowly looks up (the camera at a low angle, just to try to show that Goku has become more cool and powerful) and the insert song starts playing... it's so cliche and full of cringe. Compare that to when Dead Zone uses the Makafushigi Adventure melody in the last ditched effort to take Garlic down. That was cool, partly because of musical nostalgia. See, Dead Zone didn't have to directly tell the viewer (ala insert songs during a protagonists "badass moment"), but uses the power of memory to show how far Goku got (and even allying with his worst enemy too). In a sense, it is a ironic motif since the final, end all be all, villain of the original Dragon Ball was Piccolo! t's so clever how the Toei staff used that irony to highlight the "this is it" moment for the protagonists, who were both Goku and Piccolo by the time that scene in the film commenced!
Since when do chronological errors mean a DBZ movie isn't any good? It takes place in a different continuity, there, fixed.
Even as a side story or a spin-off, why isn't that acceptable? Why does everything have to fit in continuity? I find that notion strange. Why can't there be a story that has nothing to do with the main continuity? If people are that anal, pretend it happened in another universe. I find that a movie, or a special, doesn't have to be apart of anything and can be a standalone story with the main characters from the original continuity it comes from. The movies never claimed to be apart of the main continuity... so what's the big deal? :crazy:
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Re: Older DBZ movies compared to BoG/FnF

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:15 am

Now thanks to BOG and ROF, I notice the lack of Toriyama involvement in the other 13.
But about those 13, I still love the same movies and hate the same ones. In that regard, nothing changed.

Its not like the awesome ones lost their appeal.
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:20 am

Sayo-chan wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote: A movie doesn't have to be "cool" to being good in plot and characters. And Dead Zone best movie?! Really?!
What does cool have to do with being cringey? I had to pause the movie when I first saw it a few times because of the cringe, specifically the "that's my Bulma" scene. Bad storytelling is bad storytelling.
SaintEvolution wrote:I don't have to say much more. Dead Zone, excepting for the animation, is one of the shittiest Dragon Ball Movies ever. The backstory between Kami and Garlic was good, but the execution was lame and schizophrenic.
Why was it lame? The choreographing in the fight scenes was very well articulated. There's actually martial arts going on, which can't be said about BoG.

How was the execution "schizophrenic"?
SaintEvolution wrote:No. You are confusing good plot with battles and action. BOG has a better and less mistaken plot than ROF(but the 2 are better than the old movies).
What exactly are you trying to say? How is anything being confused? There was hardly a plot in BoG and the fighting was mediocre.
SaintEvolution wrote: Dr. Gero/Red Ribbon.

Also, the second movie was did in 1990 or 1991. The manga was not already in the Android Saga?

Anyway, the second movie is not much better than the others, since he has many chronological errors too.
No. Zarbon was still alive in the manga when the 2nd movie was released in march of 1990. So Dr. Gero wasn't a thing yet and I hardly see the movie as a RRA arc rip off.

Since when do chronological errors mean a DBZ movie isn't any good? It takes place in a different continuity, there, fixed.
And why was cringey? You didn't have explaned that.

About the plot, BoG had originality, characters with a minimum of decent development(you can't say that Beerus is a less well developed character than the empty characters of most of the older movies, like Android 13 or Turles). And OK with the 2nd movie's year. But it certainly was not did to be an "alternative reality", but just to fanservice reasons. And about the coreography, we had some good fights, but the last one(between Gohan and Garlic Jr.) was just a bad non-explained plot armor. And about the execution, the narrative was totally out of order. For example, Goku and Piccolo started to fight BEFORE Garlic Jr. would be already defeated. In 32:20:

[Link to pirated content removed by moderator]

That was totally nonsense and one of the reasons because it's just a schizophrenic narrative. And yet about fight's coreographys, actually, the final fight between Goku and Beerus was well coreoghaphed, it was not just a cheap and only free show of lights.
ShadowBardock89 wrote:I think BoG should in the same category as the 4 DB films and not the DBZ films. It didn't carry the same vibes to me. Beerus disappointed me, actually, as not only a Dragon Ball movie villain, but a Dragon Ball villain. He didn't off as a being that should be feared or respected, but a caricature of he is SUPPOSED to be. Even Bio-Broly (yes, I went there) was more threatening than Beerus in BoG. He is near Pilaf-level in terms of a villain.
Actually, Beerus was not a real villain, but just an antagonist. And he did well in his proper role.
Attitudefan wrote:
A movie doesn't have to be "cool" to being good in plot and characters. And Dead Zone best movie?! Really?!

REALLY?!

I don't have to say much more. Dead Zone, excepting for the animation, is one of the shittiest Dragon Ball Movies ever. The backstory between Kami and Garlic was good, but the execution was lame and schizophrenic.
I feel you didn't read the rest of my post. I mean, I made some reasoning to why it's execution isn't bad at all. Your assertions are loaded but I would like evidence to why it is "lame and schizophrenic." Am I wrong in my belief in how they used imagery as a motif to explain plot within 45 minutes because there wasn't time to go into every little detail? Do you think the "love triangle" that brought all the protagonists together executed poorly? Is Goku actually portrayed more accurately in Dead Zone than most if not all other Toei movies?

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. But, I hoped for a more elaborate post. It feels like you had a bit of a knee jerk reaction to my thesis in why Dead Zone is better than BoG in moving its plot and character development.

The only problem I have is the Gohan scene. Even then, it's actually hilarious. He got drunk/high, and I feel the animators just wanted to show off their skills. It's fun all around and a good break from the seriousness of the movie. You can't have DBZ take itself too seriously. I find the Gohan scene in World's Strongest to be out of place, but not Dead Zone's scene.
: ...
I've had read the entire commentary.

Having some little errors is not a big deal. The regular series have some errors, BoG and RoF had some too. But GT, and most of the older movies are not in this level. They were almost complete mistakes(with exceptions of the animation/soundtrack/some fights), and Dead Zone was just one of the worses of them. I had showed some points about it in this commentary before. Dead Zone is an interestant film if you care about fights and animation, but if you just pay attention to narrative and plot questions, you just see how lame and bad is this aspect. If you had talked about Bojack Unbound or Wrath of the Dragon(that are the best of the older movies), I would had a not jerk reaction, cause they are not so bad as Dead Zone, or as Return of Cooler, or Super Android 13, or the 2nd and 3rd Broly's movies, or some others.

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ShadowBardock89
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:01 am

SaintEvolution wrote:
ShadowBardock89 wrote:I think BoG should in the same category as the 4 DB films and not the DBZ films. It didn't carry the same vibes to me. Beerus disappointed me, actually, as not only a Dragon Ball movie villain, but a Dragon Ball villain. He didn't off as a being that should be feared or respected, but a caricature of he is SUPPOSED to be. Even Bio-Broly (yes, I went there) was more threatening than Beerus in BoG. He is near Pilaf-level in terms of a villain.
Actually, Beerus was not a real villain, but just an antagonist. And he did well in his proper role.
The bolded is your opinion and mine is that he does not deserve the respect or fear other characters have for him.
Lord Slug (though a Demon King Piccolo clone) commands more respect than Beerus does.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:13 am

SaintEvolution wrote: and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember)
Doesn't he remind you of, I don't know, Babidi? lol. Some old, small, wizard-like thing trying to release a powerful monster that was sealed long ago.

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ShadowBardock89
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:15 am

Doctor. wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote: and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember)
Doesn't he remind you of, I don't know, Babidi? lol. Some old, small, wizard-like thing trying to release a powerful monster that was sealed long ago.
Yeah, Hoi = Babidi in that regard.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=40715&start=20#p1439892
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Re: old dbz movies compared to bog or fukkatsu no f?

Post by SaintEvolution » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:24 am

ShadowBardock89 wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote:
ShadowBardock89 wrote:I think BoG should in the same category as the 4 DB films and not the DBZ films. It didn't carry the same vibes to me. Beerus disappointed me, actually, as not only a Dragon Ball movie villain, but a Dragon Ball villain. He didn't off as a being that should be feared or respected, but a caricature of he is SUPPOSED to be. Even Bio-Broly (yes, I went there) was more threatening than Beerus in BoG. He is near Pilaf-level in terms of a villain.
Actually, Beerus was not a real villain, but just an antagonist. And he did well in his proper role.
The bolded is your opinion and mine is that he does not deserve the respect or fear other characters have for him.
Lord Slug (though a Demon King Piccolo clone) commands more respect than Beerus does.
He deserved respect for his power and role as a Destruction God, but he is not an evil guy. That is the point. And that is the why he had a pacific interaction with the earth people(except for the time that Majin Buu didn't gave him the pudin).
Doctor. wrote:
SaintEvolution wrote: and Hirudegarn(and the old guy that invokes him that name I don't remember)
Doesn't he remind you of, I don't know, Babidi? lol. Some old, small, wizard-like thing trying to release a powerful monster that was sealed long ago.
Hmm...actually, I didn't had thought about him. But makes sense. But fortunally, Hirudegarn doesn't remember Majin Buu(his copy was Janemba). Also, Tapion has a similar design to Kaioshin, but his personality and fighting skills have some differences.

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Re: Older DBZ movies compared to BoG/FnF

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:32 am

I won't call Broli original since he is just another surviving saiyan like Radditz, Nappa, Vegeta and Turles expect for that he can go SSj. Dr. Uiro is probably one of the most original 13 movie villains. I have to agree that Movie 2 didn't felt like a rip off of the RR Army saga at all. It's cool that Toei did their own evil powerful mad scientist before Toriyama created Dr. Gero in the manga.
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