"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheDBZmaster100]

I kind of wished this series would have started next year, or better yet, this series never existing.

[kizuki]

I guess it finally took it happening to Dragon Ball to get people fully aware of the modern "Toei Curse". Let's hope what happened here is they rushed scenes to get them to TV on time, and they'll fix them up later for the home release like they did Sailor Moon Crystal. This is actually a fairly common practice now, I remember it happening to Attack on Titan and Madoka Magica.

There's a chance Super episode 5's animation could be fixed for the home release? That would be perfect!

The damage has already been done, though. "What has been seen cannot be unseen". But seriously, most people are discussing this as this was the end of Dragonball. I guess there had to be already some build-up to these reactions, it can't just because the - granted - horrible animation of episode 5. But are people really thinking there's even a remote possibility they'll cancel Dragonball or that it will stop running in the short/medium-term because of this (and possibly a few other) horribly animated episodes? That's not all there is to it. There's storyline, there's character background. The visuals don't need to be incredibly fantastic all the time, but they certainly won't always be like they were most of the time in episode 5. If we were willing to put up with about one EXTREMELY badly animated episode in every 5 or 6 in the 80's and 90's during DB and DBZ's run, then we must be willing to "put up" with one badly animated episode in every 6 or 7 in DBSuper. No point in arguing and especially COMPLAINING about it anymore, it won't do any good and will only generate a wave of negativity over a series which has started running just a little over a month ago. The entire thing about official complaints and petitions is ridiculous, give it some time, calm down and look forward to what's coming. Have some belief in what they're doing. Is everybody's fandom really that weak that all it takes is one badly animated episode for people to start "threatening" to drop the series altogether? Utterly ridiculous.

In my point of view, when it comes to Dragon Ball, it is the story, the character background, the entire world that surrounds it. It's also about the Toriyama-style art that I enjoy seeing, being a huge fan of Toriyama-sama and all of his works (most noteably Dragon Quest and Dragon Ball). Granted, the art style has shifted and isn't the same that it was in the 90's, but it's still there. And my fandom can definitely not be measured via if I choose not to watch a poorly produced product that I expect to be of better quality. That's my opinion as a fan, that the way they went about episode 5 and will go about episode 6 is not okay, when it is being shown that TOEI is definitely using their resources for other projects.

Of course, Dragon Ball and Z has had some poor quality episodes. I don't think anyone is disputing that. But, with the technology today in regards to animation, if the quality is poor it is MEGA poor. Just like if the quality is great, it is absolutely untouchable. Unfortunately, DB Super being awful looking is a result of animation technology being more advanced than in the 80's and 90's, thus making it less tolerable / more noticeable than back then. At least to me.

Personally, I work for a company that puts out great quality products -- to the point where our name brand has become a staple in the market to which we cater to. But, make no mistake, if we produce poor quality product, people will not stick with us simply because they've been on board this whole time prior. The same with Dragon Ball, or any series -- anime or otherwise -- for that matter. This is a product. If they fix their issues, GREAT. I'll stay on board with the anime and we'll all painfully sit through episodes 5 and 6 in order to get to the better quality stuff later on down the road. But if the rest of the series, or even rest of the BoG arc is in the same quality? I'll be happier reading the summaries on the main site and watching BoG while, obsessively, going over the differences between the two in my head.

I can honestly say I'll never not be a fan of the series, regardless of if I continue to watch Super or not -- and the only reason I wouldn't watch Super is because the quality of the product we are getting -- the physical product, not the story itself -- and it not getting any better.

[Noah]

So... You guys think TOEI will give a f*ck about fans complaining worldwide on the animation of the previous episode?

[kizuki]

So... You guys think TOEI will give a f*ck about fans complaining worldwide on the animation of the previous episode?

If it finds some way to effect their pockets, I'm sure they will. I mean, I can't see how they'd let it go on, but who knows.

It's all about da monaaayyyy. *Vince McMahon voice*

[Baggie_Saiyan]

So... You guys think TOEI will give a f*ck about fans complaining worldwide on the animation of the previous episode?

Of course they care I am pretty sure they are unhappy like the rest of us but getting the episode ready to air was probably their biggest priority and there is always the chance to go back and correct it for the Blu-ray release. I feel people give Toei way too much grief sometimes.

[Dbzk1999]

I kind of wished this series would have started next year, or better yet, this series never existing.

There is a way for this series to not exist. It's called not watching it, seriously, you have the option to not watch it

[Basaku]

So... You guys think TOEI will give a f*ck about fans complaining worldwide on the animation of the previous episode?

Endless SM Crystal bitching actually resulted in improved animation quality/consistiency in second story arc, so ye. Especially when DB crap animation is already making the news lol

[VegettoEX]

Endless SM Crystal bitching actually resulted in improved animation quality/consistiency in second story arc, so ye. Especially when DB crap animation is already making the news lol

Sailormoon Crystal had a simultaneous airing in multiple countries around the world with multiple licensees in the mix, everything contributing to a trail of money (regardless of its size) making its way back to the original license holders.

Unless you live in Japan and are paying your cable bill there, you are stealing Dragon Ball Super, and therefore your opinion is 100% irrelevant to Toei. They made their own decision to not treat this new show as something worthy of a global rollout, and so there would be no reason for them to care at all right now anything other than what their presumably-gigantic license fee is and when it will be met by someone.

[Basaku]

Unless you live in Japan and are paying your cable bill there, you are stealing Dragon Ball Super, and therefore your opinion is 100% irrelevant to Toei. They made their own decision to not treat this new show as something worthy of a global rollout, and so there would be no reason for them to care at all right now anything other than what their presumably-gigantic license fee is and when it will be met by someone.

No reason to care at all other than memes of awful animation making rounds through the entire internet and creating negative buzz for any potential local release. Companies that actually realize it's 2015 would know how easily negative buzz crosses borders in 2015 and can affect revenue.

[Geraldix]

IMHO, people are really overbitching over this matter. Apart from a few seconds of fighting that looked like shit, the episode was just finely animated.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Sailormoon Crystal had a simultaneous airing in multiple countries around the world with multiple licensees in the mix, everything contributing to a trail of money (regardless of its size) making its way back to the original license holders.

Unless you live in Japan and are paying your cable bill there, you are stealing Dragon Ball Super, and therefore your opinion is 100% irrelevant to Toei. They made their own decision to not treat this new show as something worthy of a global rollout, and so there would be no reason for them to care at all right now anything other than what their presumably-gigantic license fee is and when it will be met by someone.

Yeah, but even though we are not officially their audience at the moment, we will be in the future. So, it wouldn't be 100% irrelevant, right?

[irreality]

They might remaster it for international licensing like they do for DVDs. Would also be a reason for people to watch the international release instead of pirating.

[alakazam^]

Oh Toei, you geniuses. You botched up episode 5 on purpose so that the fans would complain and you could know who was pirating to then sue them

[Puto]

It's actually quite likely the animation will be touched up for the home release, and international licensees will probably get the improved version.

[sangofe]

Interesting article about the production of DB Super here:
http://www.manganimation.net/news/2015/ ... -episode-5

It's in french, though, and I'm too tired to translate it.

[Lord Beerus]

Interesting article about the production of DB Super here:
http://www.manganimation.net/news/2015/ ... -episode-5

It's in french, though, and I'm too tired to translate it.

Here's the info I got from the article via google translate. I've interpreted a some of the information the article a bit differently only because the translation wasn't the best. The stuff in bold is info I consider very enlightening:
- There are 7 animation teams working on Dragon Ball Super. In comparison, Studio Pierrot has 11 animation teams working on Naruto.
- Naoki Tate's role in the episode 5 Super Dragon Ball was not to animate or draw scenes but to correct the drawings of other animators.
- Tôei Animation studio is known for having very few animators to work on an episode. In the 80s and 90s, they employed 4 or 5 more rarely. Usually these days, they do not exceed 10 animators unlike other studios.
- Episode 3 of Super Dragon Ball was animated by a single person, as was Episode 24 of Go! Princess Precure. In comparison, Episode 27 Go! Precure Princess had only three key animators. Which is still not a lot.
- Episode 5 of Super had over 18 key animators. With this many key animators, this means there was clearly a very tight schedule and the budget was a non factor. There was good animators in this episode, though. Examples include the Kamehameha that was launched by Goku Super Saiyan 3 which was drawn by Ken Ôtsuka.
- Because of lack of time and tight schedule, Naoki Tate had to make a choice of whether he should give priority to second half of the episode where there is more action, specifically where Goku was a Super Saiyan 3, and then abandon plans where Goku was in different scenes and not in action. The second half of the episode had almost no reproach unlike the first half. Naoki Tate had done just that 3/4 of his job for that episode, and he ultimate chose the easy way out, and provided more animators to scenes where there is less action to correct the most possible scenes.
- The animation in the strict sense, where the images were moving, was not so bad. What was ugly, however, was the lack of uniformity during the fighting scenes and in the background.
- It is also important to note, that the animation director must wait until the animators finish the drawing, as the animation director is the person who works last.
- The pace of production has changed since the day that Toei animation painted cels, as with the arrival of colorization using computers, delays in the process of animation were reduced.
- Many people like the anime producers, directors or designers and production assistants are paid during the manufacturing process, planning is very punctuated to limit the overall cost of production. However, the majority of employees in the animation are freelance, as he cost to internalize facilitators and animators would be too unbearable. The only studio that could afford to do such a thing is Studio Ghibli. But the problem is not the fact that the studios are stingy. Japanese animation studios are small companies which still struggling with the budget allocated by customers. They do not have rights. In general, they do not make big profits and are not in a position to invest their own profits in an original license.
- Japanese animation in budgets are extremely low. In the 60s, to be successful producing weekly episodes was seen a crazy idea but a necessary one. Osamu Tezuka asked the animators to make many sacrifices: work very hard to pay a pittance. The standard period is always the same 50 years later.
- On a series of television production, a animator is usually paid around ¥5,000 to animate a cut (from the layout to the animated key).
- The people responsible for in-between animation are paid around ¥250 per drawing. To live survive by this standard wage, the animation leaders must work fast and can not afford to work exclusively on a single animated cut. Many animators are therefore freelancers working for several studios simultaneously.
- The problem is still the same today, as Japan's animation industry produces too many projects at a rate of an indecent speed. There are not enough talented and experienced animators to oversee production and train new young animators. The studios have no alternative but to work with animators from a low level, sometimes even amateurs who do it as a hobby. They also have no choice but to outsource certain functions in other countries, not only to contain costs but also to deliver the episode in time. In this industry, everybody is all the time is extremely busy, but also especially talented. But even the most mediocre animators, however, are solicited to regular intervals.
- It is fairly common that nobody starts work on an episode until the very last moment because they are already struggling on their deadline on another production. In this situation, it is quite common to hear about "miracle" when an episode airing in time. Sometimes the animation for an episode can begin only two weeks before the broadcast and the episode is finalized a mere few hours before before it has to air TV. The quality may be rotten, but what counts most is to have something on the screen.

[shinmaru]

To be positive the confrontation between Goku and Beerus in Super was a lot more interesting than BOG version. you really felt that Goku was powerless against Beerus in Super. and I really liked the part where Goku felt when Beerus was going to attack and how Beerus defeated Goku.

[Hellspawn28]

Yeah, but even though we are not officially their audience at the moment, we will be in the future. So, it wouldn't be 100% irrelevant, right?

The Japanese market is the main market for the series. They come first before the rest of the world does.

[Analytical Delusion]

So skipping ahead a little bit to the RoF arc...does anyone think there's a real chance Freeza's empire returns to prominence for some non-trivial amount of time? Or is it pretty much going to stay the course as it did in the movie, remaining in shambles prior to Freeza's revival, with Freeza training for several months (and presumably not getting involved in its operations), followed by its destruction with the elimination of the rest of the army (as stated in the film)?

Entirely idle speculation of course, but I think it'd be pretty neat for the empire to be an entity again (for world-building and such, maybe Jaco and the Galactic Police Force can tie in somehow?).

[Chuquita]

I think it'd be fun if they world build like that, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It'd be nice though.