"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Hellspawn28]

Toei does not make Dragon Ball for Amercians. It's like saying that Toei makes Super Sentai to be adapted into Power Rangers.

Of course, considering what the international licensing revenue is (hint: Dragon Ball is their #1 property), they absolutely should be taking the foreign audience into consideration when creating this stuff.

Even if they do, I don't think they would since they always put their home country first when it comes to business. Toei gets money from the Power Rangers licensing fee (Toei & Bandai counts Super Sentai and Power Rangers as one property when they release their financial reports of merchandise sold worldwide), but they don't put into consideration when they make new Sentai shows over in Japan for the western market for Power Rangers. I don't think Toei is like "We should not do this because the Toonami DBZ fanboys won't like it!" when it comes to animating the DB series. It always seems like "Japan first and the rest of the world later" for Japanese companies.

[MaGyunia]

Does anyone have any idea on how many credible petitions against DBSuper are currently in motion? Last time I checked, there are quite a few... Don't know quite to say about this stuff other than what I've already said. Getting tired of this. There's one petition in my country called "This is not Dragon Ball", and the supposed fans' outrage made it to the national f****** news (!), wrongly stating that the fans are angry not only at the animation of the entire series, but at its plot and overall quality in general.

I mean, let's all make the following exercise: let's get back to a few days before, when episode 5 and its subsequent horrible animation was shown. Was anybody really annoyed or disappointed at ANY aspect of DBSuper? On the contrary, pretty much everyone was hyped. Unless they throw us the same garbage of episode 5 in every single episode for the rest of the series, I'll always think this is being completely blown out of proportion.

[Chuquita]

It does feel blown out of proportion. I think we're just not enough episodes in where we can look at the staff and brace for a bad animation ep. When I watch Go!Pri I know when a Kawano episode is coming. We don't know who our good and bad teams are yet.

This ep caught off guard because we saw Tate's name and assumed everything would be fine. Who knew they weren't going to give him the time/resources he'd need.

[VegettoEX]

It's completely blown out of proportion by fans who have never actually dealt with seeing Dragon Ball on a week-to-week basis before, are doing so in an era where the social media echo-chamber has never been more effective in regurgitating and parroting their own opinions back at them, have never seen something new for the first time in HD on a monitor six inches from their face, have no understanding of the animation industry, and see no irony at all in complaining about a product they have no legal right to even be watching in the first place.

(And this is coming from someone who did indeed think the episode looked awful.)

[MaGyunia]

I mean, it feels like everyone - including the fans - was greedily waiting for the FIRST big mistake in the series to lash out at DBSuper's supposed flaws. That's partially the feeling I get. Up until now, everybody was just commenting on the first four episodes and debating a number of issues surrounding the plot, storyline, timing, character development, etc., everyone was hyped, the only instance of disappointment was at the fact that the first two arcs were going to be/are being dedicated to the retelling of the events of BoG and Fukkatsu no F in pretty much the exact same circumstances expect for a few minor changes and additions when compared to the movies, but even that was supposed to be at least accepted by the ones having a harder time overcoming their disappointment.

All of a sudden, it's like "This is not Dragon Ball", "DRAGONBALL IS OVER", "F*** TOEI", petitions all over the world lashing out at Toei. Just because of one awfully animated episode. We used to get one out of 5 or 6, or even more frequently than that, throughout DB and DBZ in the 80's and 90's. I'll repeat myself on the issue. If we were willing to put up with EXTREMELY badly animated/drawn episodes in DB and DBZ due to the rotating dynamics of the animation teams behind each episode, we should be willing to "put up" with one badly animated episode in DBSuper in every 6 or 7. This is not a movie, this is a series, with both its benefits (longer time to expand on the characters' stories and backgrounds, more fighting time, longer run, more content) and disadvantages (lesser budget, lower animation quality).

It's like a few days ago Dragonball was as healthy as it could be, and because of ONE episode the world is going to end. I mean, the episode WAS horrendously badly animated, the art was laughable, the fighting choreography was utterly atrocious, but this is ONE episode, we're 5 into a series that has just started airing less than a month ago. What the hell is all this about? I know it's 2015, but Dragonball's best quality, that which made it fantastic, was never its animation quality. Some of the animation teams were exceptional, most of them were average, some of them were miserable. It had to do with fighting choreography, violence, drama, seriousness, values, relationships, life lessons, desperate circumstances, storyline, plot, character development and background. I'm personally more than willing to put aside episode 5 and view it as a temporary and separate event, a forgettable screw-up among a virtually infinite and limitless number of fantastic possibilities for past, present and future events both within the Universe of Dragonball and for the real world surrounding it. Dragonball is "unkillable", its potential is virtually limitless, let's get our collective shit together, look forward to the next episode(s) and arcs and enjoy the f****** series just like we welcomed the revitalization of DBZ with open arms (Tarble Special, Episode of Bardock, Kai, BoG, Fukkatsu no F, Beerus, Whis, Super Saiya-jin God, Golden Freeza). Are general fans THAT weak or THAT insane that all it takes for them to threaten to drop the first series in 18 years (!) altogether is ONE episode?

Look at the animation teams behind DB and DBZ. DB had 153 episodes, DBZ had 291. Out of those, over half of them had average-to-subpar animation. Only about third of them had two or three fantastic animation teams behind them. I have the entire list of rotating animation teams, I even posted a large chunk of it a few days ago either in this thread or in another one.

I wish everyone was still sharing the hype towards each episode every Saturday/Sunday as I still am. If all goes well, it will be one of those events which are basically debated to death and insanely blown out of proportion throughout the internet and the media for a few days to the point of saturation, after which nobody will even discuss it anymore apart from a few mentions here and there. It will be forgotten. I'm confident they won't screw up (animation-wise) the episode in which Beerus has his interactions + fights with everyone on Earth, and the episode(s) both before Goku's arrival and after it, including the Beerus vs Super Saiya-jin God battle. The series just f****** began, for f***'s sake.

Before episode 5, we've had two smooth family-oriented episodes dedicated to (re)introducing the characters, along with a few chilling/mysterious appearances by the Beerus/Whis duo, we've had a third one which should have caused orgasms to any Beerus lover, which includes me, a weaker fourth episode overly dedicated to the Pilaf Gang. Everything was going well, and everything WILL return to normal. It just has to. I bet all I have that a month from now, or a few months from now, we'll be discussing the aftermath of the Beerus arc, the Freeza arc and every single aspect of the episodes and every issue surrounding the series in the light of Dragonball's history and Universe with the same degree of enthusiasm and hype as we were up until a few days ago.

It's completely blown out of proportion by fans who have never actually dealt with seeing Dragon Ball on a week-to-week basis before, are doing so in an era where the social media echo-chamber has never been more effective in regurgitating and parroting their own opinions back at them, have never seen something new for the first time in HD on a monitor six inches from their face, have no understanding of the animation industry, and see no irony at all in complaining about a product they have no legal right to even be watching in the first place.

(And this is coming from someone who did indeed think the episode looked awful.)

I second every single word. I happen to be one of the hardcore fans who started watching Dragonball and recording every single episode back in the early 90's. It was my childhood and early adolescence, I've followed every single step of the franchise since then and have watched every single episode hundreds of times almost on a daily basis for nearly two decades. I too think the episode looked awful, ANYONE with a pair of fully functional eyes just HAS to share that opinion. I've voiced my own anger at the incredibly awful animation/fighting choreography more than once, but goddamn it, it's been a few days and I'm not generating petitions against the series. I've said this before, I honestly don't give two sh**s about who the new audience they're trying to direct the "round 2" of the Dragonball franchise at, any decent hardcore DBZ fan who went through the 90's and is in their early 30's like me just has to realize all of this, put it into perspective and reach the same conclusions we're reaching. Some of my friends weren't even born when DBZ ended its run. There's a lot wrong with the way information is conveyed nowadays and while there is a number of advantages, it comes at a great price when something like this happens. There's no turning back, all they can do is keep up with the series and the franchise and "try not to" screw-up ANYTHING otherwise part of the world will keep generating memes, petitions and mocking jokes about something which they obviously don't comprehend, much less its significance. This has been happening in virtually all areas of entertainment, and by choosing to go further with a potentially partially flawed Dragonball series there was a decisive chance it could affect the franchise as well, but people in their teenage years or in their early 20's, who already grew up in a world of internet and technological commodity without knowing what it is to live without it have no f****** idea what they're talking about and they are the ones disrespecting Dragonball, in fact, just like they disregard and disrespect pretty much all the "untouchable" fictional stuff from the 70's, 80's and 90's.

[Chuquita]

I'm also willing to bet this'll blow over by Saturday night. Everyone will have moved onto whatever happens in episode 6.

[Araki]

Even if they do, I don't think they would since they always put their home country first when it comes to business. Toei gets money from the Power Rangers licensing fee (Toei & Bandai counts Super Sentai and Power Rangers as one property when they release their financial reports of merchandise sold worldwide), but they don't put into consideration when they make new Sentai shows over in Japan for the western market for Power Rangers. I don't think Toei is like "We should not do this because the Toonami DBZ fanboys won't like it!" when it comes to animating the DB series. It always seems like "Japan first and the rest of the world later" for Japanese companies.

It's true that they think of Japan first, but not ignoring the rest of the world (if only Japan mattered, they would never touch anything Saint Seiya-related ever again).
About Sentai, of course they don't make it thinking about Power Rangers, Sentai is a huge cultural icon in Japan after all. It means a lot more to them than PR to the West. However, they do eventually shot scenes to be used exclusively in the American version. I think they treat their properties accordingly, if far from the ideal way.

It's completely blown out of proportion by fans who have never actually dealt with seeing Dragon Ball on a week-to-week basis before, are doing so in an era where the social media echo-chamber has never been more effective in regurgitating and parroting their own opinions back at them, have never seen something new for the first time in HD on a monitor six inches from their face, have no understanding of the animation industry, and see no irony at all in complaining about a product they have no legal right to even be watching in the first place.

That pretty much sums it up.
Up to episode 4, if the animation wasn't impressive, it wasn't bad either, and aside from a couple scenes, which is normal, the art was perfectly fine. The week before we just had episode 4, with the more detailed art yet. And still, i've seen people overreacting about a continuity error involving Videl's socks in episode 3 - that happens all the freaking time in anime/manga, DBZ was full of similar mistakes, but the way some people reacted was almost like a foreshadowing of things to come.

[MaGyunia]

I'm also willing to bet this'll blow over by Saturday night. Everyone will have moved onto whatever happens in episode 6.

Yeah, unless the animation ends up being even partially nearly as bad as the one in episode 5. Two episodes awfully animated in a row? Holy shit, everybody'll go insane. Or on the other hand, they could very well just reach the point of saturation and refrain from discussing the matter at all. Non-hardcore DBZ fans are simply taking this opportunity to basically mock whatever has a reason or potential to be mocked, they could very well just find the next best thing to joke about and episode 5's horrible animation won't even be mentioned once for a while. It's not DBSuper or episode 5 I'm disappointed at, it's a large chunk of the fandom, to be honest. If DBSuper does well in all aspects and doesn't screw up once, I bet you won't get 30 pages discussing a particular episode, they'll have nothing to grab onto to lash out their ill-restrained and ill-placed anger + ignorance combo.

[Chuquita]

I'm also willing to bet this'll blow over by Saturday night. Everyone will have moved onto whatever happens in episode 6.

Yeah, unless the animation ends up being even partially nearly as bad as the one in episode 5. Two episodes awfully animated in a row? Holy shit, everybody'll go insane. Or on the other hand, they could very well just reach the point of saturation and refrain from discussing the matter at all. Non-hardcore DBZ fans are simply taking this opportunity to basically mock whatever has a reason or potential to be mocked, they could very well just find the next best thing to joke about and episode 5's horrible animation won't even be mentioned once for a while. It's not DBSuper or episode 5 I'm disappointed at, it's a large chunk of the fandom, to be honest. If DBSuper does well in all aspects and doesn't screw up once, I bet you won't get 30 pages discussing a particular episode, they'll have nothing to grab onto to lash out their ill-restrained and ill-placed anger + ignorance combo.

Episode 6 is likely to be Vegeta Bingo Dance 2, I'm hoping that will be a good distraction.

Yeah, can you imagine if his Bingo Dance is animated better than Gokû vs Beerus?

[MaGyunia]

I'm also willing to bet this'll blow over by Saturday night. Everyone will have moved onto whatever happens in episode 6.

Yeah, unless the animation ends up being even partially nearly as bad as the one in episode 5. Two episodes awfully animated in a row? Holy shit, everybody'll go insane. Or on the other hand, they could very well just reach the point of saturation and refrain from discussing the matter at all. Non-hardcore DBZ fans are simply taking this opportunity to basically mock whatever has a reason or potential to be mocked, they could very well just find the next best thing to joke about and episode 5's horrible animation won't even be mentioned once for a while. It's not DBSuper or episode 5 I'm disappointed at, it's a large chunk of the fandom, to be honest. If DBSuper does well in all aspects and doesn't screw up once, I bet you won't get 30 pages discussing a particular episode, they'll have nothing to grab onto to lash out their ill-restrained and ill-placed anger + ignorance combo.

Episode 6 is likely to be Vegeta Bingo Dance 2, I'm hoping that will be a good distraction.

Yeah, can you imagine if his Bingo Dance is animated better than Gokû vs Beerus?

I honestly think that the quality of the animation/art doesn't have anything to do with the particular event which is being depicted. Throughout DB and DBZ, some of the best animation teams worked in filler-packed episodes with no real significance to them and some of the major fights - supposed to be the top of the top event for any male hardcore DBZ fan - had horribly-animated episodes. It's really a matter of sheer luck. Appointing different animation teams for each episode in a rotating basis worked that way in DB and DBZ. It's when you "happen(ed)" to combine fantastic animation with the most significant events or fights that you reach(ed) the best DB/DBZ moments, and there are quite a few.

If they stay with the animation quality of the first four episodes everyone will remain quiet about the subject and hopefully we'll be able to discuss the progress of the plot, the storyline, the characters, the events, the transformations, the fights, the way we're supposed to do it.

On another note, I'm not entirely sure they'll keep Vegeta's bingo dance. Keep in mind that they're depicting Vegeta's character in a much more serious light when compared to BoG, and although even the episode title seconds the fact that Vegeta will be extremely cautious and fearful of Beerus, he most likely won't be portrayed in so much a comical fashion when dealing with Beerus before the latter lost his shit when compared to the movie. I think there's a good chance they'll refrain from the bingo dance. We can still expect Vegeta to react out of character and display a degree of comic antics while dealing with Beerus, but not to the same degree we saw in BoG. The series is throwing us a slightly more serious/dramatic version of the events of the movie, and we saw that in the way Beerus dealt with the planets in the first two episodes and especially in the way he coldly threw that last line at Goku before rendering him unconscious. If one hadn't seen BoG, or if it had never existed, we'd by now be thinking Beerus is closer to a full-fledged villain than he actually is.

[Noah]

That Bingo Dance needs to be filler, please Toriyama

[godku23]

That Bingo Dance needs to be filler, please Toriyama

I don't think it will. I'm not very fond of it, but I think there's more people that like it than people that don't.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The "Super Bingo" dance should last half the episode, and Vegeta should do even more ridiculous poses...like the result of Ginyu fusing with Hatsune Miku.

[Noah]

I don't think it will. I'm not very fond of it, but I think there's more people that like it than people that don't.

Are you really sure about that statement?

[Chuquita]

Double Leek spin. While in Ginyu pose. >_>

I think the dance is still happening because it was mentioned in the Super Start Guide. (I think it was mentioned there anyway.)

[MaGyunia]

I don't think it will. I'm not very fond of it, but I think there's more people that like it than people that don't.

Are you really sure about that statement?

I enjoy the display in BoG, but after a while, if you're a hardcore Vegeta fan, you eventually want to refrain from that stuff and go back to his degree of seriousness and rigidity. I personally would like if it didn't happen this time around. Being extremely cautious and fearful of Beerus and the potential reactions by the others towards him shouldn't make it necessary to turn Vegeta into a ridiculous comedian. My bet is that the bingo dance was a movie-thing only.

[kizuki]

I don't think the petitions are going to do much of anything, even if they made a headline or two out in the news.

This series isn't going anywhere, we'll all be okay. Even after Bejita makes it onto an episode with two left hands. It's all going to be alright.

Again, I'll speak up as someone who's been a fan of the series since 1999-2000, that's about 15 years, half of my entire life: I want to see better quality animation. It doesn't make me less a fan. It doesn't make my "fandom weak." I just want to see something better. I get it, I get it! The animation has never been perfect! Some episodes of DB and Z were God awful. I get it.

I'm a fan, though. Maybe having an opinion on a series I'm not even supposed to be watching is ludicrous, but the Dragon Ball franchise has enough of my money and time in other places where I'm allowed to want to see something better. Something better in 2015, when things are expected to be better. It doesn't make anyone's fandom weak. If someone is saying they're done with the franchise then let them be. Why would we want them? They're not enjoying it to the point where they want out. Okay. BYE BYE, then.

There's a thread discussing how bad the animation was for episode 5. I'm assuming people will do the right thing and post their thoughts on episode 6's animation in a thread other than the actual episode 6 discussion thread. After all, we know 6 is going to be pretty bad. It won't be a sucker punch to the face ala Geno Smith this time. I'll discuss episode 6's plot and story in the thread, and nothing else.

It still won't prevent me from wanting a better looking Dragon Ball.

And when I say better, I mean better. Not THE BEST.

And if I feel like I can't physically sit there through any more horrible looking episodes, then I won't. I'll still buy Dragon Ball merch, read the episode summaries on the main site (like I did through junior high and high school because I didn't have Cartoon Network), and still be a fan, listen to the awesome podcast the team puts out, etc etc. Just not a fan of the quality of animation they're putting out. I don't think that's too great of an offense to the rest of the fandom.

[MaGyunia]

I don't think the petitions are going to do much of anything, even if they made a headline or two out in the news.

This series isn't going anywhere, we'll all be okay. Even after Bejita makes it onto an episode with two left hands. It's all going to be alright.

Again, I'll speak up as someone who's been a fan of the series since 1999-2000, that's about 15 years, half of my entire life: I want to see better quality animation. It doesn't make me less a fan. It doesn't make my "fandom weak." I just want to see something better. I get it, I get it! The animation has never been perfect! Some episodes of DB and Z were God awful. I get it.

I'm a fan, though. Maybe having an opinion on a series I'm not even supposed to be watching is ludicrous, but the Dragon Ball franchise has enough of my money and time in other places where I'm allowed to want to see something better. Something better in 2015, when things are expected to be better. It doesn't make anyone's fandom weak. If someone is saying they're done with the franchise then let them be. Why would we want them? They're not enjoying it to the point where they want out. Okay. BYE BYE, then.

There's a thread discussing how bad the animation was for episode 5. I'm assuming people will do the right thing and post their thoughts on episode 6's animation in a thread other than the actual episode 6 discussion thread. After all, we know 6 is going to be pretty bad. It won't be a sucker punch to the face ala Geno Smith this time. I'll discuss episode 6's plot and story in the thread, and nothing else.

It still won't prevent me from wanting a better looking Dragon Ball.

And when I say better, I mean better. Not THE BEST.

And if I feel like I can't physically sit there through any more horrible looking episodes, then I won't. I'll still buy Dragon Ball merch, read the episode summaries on the main site (like I did through junior high and high school because I didn't have Cartoon Network), and still be a fan, listen to the awesome podcast the team puts out, etc etc. Just not a fan of the quality of animation they're putting out. I don't think that's too great of an offense to the rest of the fandom.

Don't take it personally. When I referred to weak DBZ fans, or not-so-hardcore DBZ fans, I was obviously referring to the ones who basically took the opportunity the awful animation/art/fighting choreography shown in episode 5 presented them to postulate the end of the series and the franchise altogether, generate memes, mock the series and act in a way similar to those who are generating those petitions which went as far as to reach national news. I seriously did want to put a definite end to the discussion on the animation of episode 5 a few posts ago, but I'm replying to you on the matter because I don't want you to think I was devaluing every single fan who was displeased with the animation in the last episode, was angry at it, displayed their anger and wanted better, as that would include me. My views on the matter have now reached their absolute conclusion with the last posts in this page, hopefully I won't be addressing the matter again at least for a few days. We've got a new episode in just a little over 48 hours, let's focus on that, discuss that and look forward to that.

[Lord Beerus]

That Bingo Dance needs to be filler, please Toriyama

I love the Bingo Dance. I want it to become even more over the top in Super.

[kizuki]

I don't think the petitions are going to do much of anything, even if they made a headline or two out in the news.

This series isn't going anywhere, we'll all be okay. Even after Bejita makes it onto an episode with two left hands. It's all going to be alright.

Again, I'll speak up as someone who's been a fan of the series since 1999-2000, that's about 15 years, half of my entire life: I want to see better quality animation. It doesn't make me less a fan. It doesn't make my "fandom weak." I just want to see something better. I get it, I get it! The animation has never been perfect! Some episodes of DB and Z were God awful. I get it.

I'm a fan, though. Maybe having an opinion on a series I'm not even supposed to be watching is ludicrous, but the Dragon Ball franchise has enough of my money and time in other places where I'm allowed to want to see something better. Something better in 2015, when things are expected to be better. It doesn't make anyone's fandom weak. If someone is saying they're done with the franchise then let them be. Why would we want them? They're not enjoying it to the point where they want out. Okay. BYE BYE, then.

There's a thread discussing how bad the animation was for episode 5. I'm assuming people will do the right thing and post their thoughts on episode 6's animation in a thread other than the actual episode 6 discussion thread. After all, we know 6 is going to be pretty bad. It won't be a sucker punch to the face ala Geno Smith this time. I'll discuss episode 6's plot and story in the thread, and nothing else.

It still won't prevent me from wanting a better looking Dragon Ball.

And when I say better, I mean better. Not THE BEST.

And if I feel like I can't physically sit there through any more horrible looking episodes, then I won't. I'll still buy Dragon Ball merch, read the episode summaries on the main site (like I did through junior high and high school because I didn't have Cartoon Network), and still be a fan, listen to the awesome podcast the team puts out, etc etc. Just not a fan of the quality of animation they're putting out. I don't think that's too great of an offense to the rest of the fandom.

Don't take it personally. When I referred to weak DBZ fans, or not-so-hardcore DBZ fans, I was obviously referring to the ones who basically took the opportunity the awful animation/art/fighting choreography shown in episode 5 presented them to postulate the end of the series and the franchise altogether, generate memes, mock the series and act in a way similar to those who are generating those petitions which went as far as to reach national news. I seriously did want to put a definite end to the discussion on the animation of episode 5 a few posts ago, but I'm replying to you on the matter because I don't want you to think I was devaluing every single fan who was displeased with the animation in the last episode, was angry at it, displayed their anger and wanted better, as that would include me. My views on the matter have now reached their absolute conclusion with the last posts in this page, hopefully I won't be addressing the matter again at least for a few days. We've got a new episode in just a little over 48 hours, let's focus on that, discuss that and look forward to that.

Agreed, brother. Agreed.