Toriyama confirms Golden Frieza's power level...?

[Sayo-chan]

Which? That having a naturally massive BP makes one a prodigy, or that someone starting with a much higher BP than someone else could also have a higher limit?

The first, at least, is the definition of a prodigy, "a person, especially a young one, endowed with exceptional qualities or abilities.".

Also, we're arguing something subjective(whether or not Freeza's power gains "make sense" in a series with very loose internal logic), it's silly to start throwing around formal logic terms.

You implied that it doesn't make sense for Freeza to make such huge power gains. I said that that his higher natural BP could allow him a higher limit, which would be a perfectly reasonable in-universe explanation IMO. It also wouldn't break any of the Dragon Ball Universe's internal rules, AFAIK.

I didn't state "Freeza had a higher starting BP, therefore he must have a higher limit." That would be a non sequitur.

I disagree. We have no idea how Freeza develops. All we know is that by adulthood he has a ridiculously high battle power compared to the average of the universe. By that definition, every main character is a prodigy. It's just a sloppy excuse to make Freeza super strong so he can fight with everyone again, and die again. I really don't have an argument for or against his limitations, they don't really intrigue or bother me. A huge battle power because of whatever reason doesn't make him a prodigy. It's making a needless jump. It only works if you apply it to every single sapient being in the universe, which then makes the term lose all meaning because in the top percentiles, Freeza's nothing, and we only care about the top percentiles as they become available. This is also completely semantical.

[Kishido]

Frieza becoming that strong in just 4 month is just lol worthy and makes no sense... Even more if golden Frieza is actually stronger as SSGSS...

Give him 2 month more and he is stronger as Beerus

[Galan007]

Freeza becoming that strong in just 4 month is just lol worthy and makes no sense... Even more if golden Freeza is actually stronger as SSGSS...

Give him 2 month more and he is stronger as Beerus

Freeza's training was meant to draw out all of his latent potential--so in theory, he can't get any more powerful. All he can likely do at this point is better acclimate himself with his Golden Form so that it doesn't drain him as rapidly.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Freeza becoming that strong in just 4 month is just lol worthy and makes no sense... Even more if golden Freeza is actually stronger as SSGSS...

Give him 2 month more and he is stronger as Beerus

Freeza's training was meant to draw out all of his latent potential--so in theory, he can't get any more powerful. All he can likely do at this point is better acclimate himself with his Golden Form so that it doesn't drain him as rapidly.

How do you come to that conclusion? All Frieza states is that he never trained, and he could get *stronger* if he spent a little time.
And drawing out potential doesn't necessarily mean you reach a wall you can't go through. Gohan did this like 3 times, and he could still get stronger.

[Galan007]

How do you come to that conclusion? All Freeza states is that he never trained, and he could get *stronger* if he spent a little time.
And drawing out potential doesn't necessarily mean you reach a wall you can't go through. Gohan did this like 3 times, and he could still get stronger.

Freeza says in the English dub that his training is meant to unlock his latent potential(this was stated in the RoF manga as well, for what it's worth.) Hence my opinion.

[Kishido]

Even if Frieza can't get any stronger it doesn't make his power up in just 4 month any less ridiculous... It is a fact as well that he is stroner in 4 month than SSGSS... If not for his fast draining of power he would have beaten Goku.

Same goes for that henchmen who was able to give a big fight to Piccolo... Someone who has been stated being as strong as Zarbon. And later Gohan in SS just owned him.

You can twist is as much as you want... The movie itself makes no sense power level wise... Let us see how Super will handle it.

But hey next movie will probably will be Cell's return and him training the first time in his life and maybe even reaching SSGSS for reasons.

After it Evil Buu comes back...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How do you come to that conclusion? All Freeza states is that he never trained, and he could get *stronger* if he spent a little time.
And drawing out potential doesn't necessarily mean you reach a wall you can't go through. Gohan did this like 3 times, and he could still get stronger.

Freeza says in the English dub that his training is meant to unlock his latent potential(this was stated in the RoF manga as well, for what it's worth.) Hence my opinion.

He said that in the script as well. Toriyama also said that no matter what Freeza does he will never reach Beerus, so he definitely reached his limits.

[Saiyan007]

How do you come to that conclusion? All Freeza states is that he never trained, and he could get *stronger* if he spent a little time.
And drawing out potential doesn't necessarily mean you reach a wall you can't go through. Gohan did this like 3 times, and he could still get stronger.

Freeza says in the English dub that his training is meant to unlock his latent potential(this was stated in the RoF manga as well, for what it's worth.) Hence my opinion.

He said that in the script as well. Toriyama also said that no matter what Freeza does he will never reach Beerus, so he definitely reached his limits.

That was never stated at all

[h0kuten]

I don't see why Shisami didn't train with Frieza.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That was never stated at all

Yes, it was.

Freeza: “I’m a natural prodigy, so I’ve never trained, not even once. I’ve simply never needed to.”
Sorbet: “Yes…”
Freeza: “So I wonder what will happen…if I draw out my full potential through training…”
Sorbet: “Y-You can…become even stronger?...”
Freeza: “Is that so surprising? In my estimation, if I train hard for 4 months then…I should acquire a battle power of 1.30 million…”

Even Freeza is no match for the God of Destruction Beerus, no matter what he does!

[Galan007]

He said that in the script as well. Toriyama also said that no matter what Freeza does he will never reach Beerus, so he definitely reached his limits.

Good points.

[Hitiro]

That was never stated at all

Yes, it was.

Freeza: “I’m a natural prodigy, so I’ve never trained, not even once. I’ve simply never needed to.”
Sorbet: “Yes…”
Freeza: “So I wonder what will happen…if I draw out my full potential through training…”
Sorbet: “Y-You can…become even stronger?...”
Freeza: “Is that so surprising? In my estimation, if I train hard for 4 months then…I should acquire a battle power of 1.30 million…”

Even Freeza is no match for the God of Destruction Beerus, no matter what he does!

I'd like to make a point about the script. Freeza wonders what will happen if he draws out his full potential through training. But that doesn't mean that the 4 months training is him drawing out his full potential. He doesn't specifically say that if he trains for 4 months that he could draw out his full potential. Only that after 4 months he should be that strong. Certainly it is a possibility that the 4 months of training is him drawing out his full potential. But there is no actual connection between him pondering about drawing out his full potential and his statement about training for 4 months.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'd like to make a point about the script. Freeza wonders what will happen if he draws out his full potential through training. But that doesn't mean that the 4 months training is him drawing out his full potential. He doesn't specifically say that if he trains for 4 months that he could draw out his full potential. Only that after 4 months he should be that strong. Certainly it is a possibility that the 4 months of training is him drawing out his full potential. But there is no actual connection between him pondering about drawing out his full potential and his statement about training for 4 months.

If he still had room for more improvement, I don't think Toriyama would have said that he would never reach Beerus no matter what he does.

[Hitiro]

I'd like to make a point about the script. Freeza wonders what will happen if he draws out his full potential through training. But that doesn't mean that the 4 months training is him drawing out his full potential. He doesn't specifically say that if he trains for 4 months that he could draw out his full potential. Only that after 4 months he should be that strong. Certainly it is a possibility that the 4 months of training is him drawing out his full potential. But there is no actual connection between him pondering about drawing out his full potential and his statement about training for 4 months.

If he still had room for more improvement, I don't think Toriyama would have said that he would never reach Beerus no matter what he does.

Just because he still has room for improvement doesn't mean he can surpass Beerus. It's like saying Freeza after 4 months is a 7 compared to Goku's 6 and that Freeza still could get an 8 or 9 with further training. But he will never get higher than a 9.

[Tsufuru]

akira toriyama's numbers only make sense when he talks about distances and such and thats cuz we cant know if they are true or not.

he was the one who made kid krillin casualy training with 40kg yet after 3 years of training for the budokai he struggled with 22kg boots.

we know toriyama so long now yet ppl still dont understand how he works.
explantions about this character and that thing he does good most of the time but when he steps into the numbers for his chars area he beginns to fuck up.

[Hitiro]

akira toriyama's numbers only make sense when he talks about distances and such and thats cuz we cant know if they are true or not.

he was the one who made kid krillin casualy training with 40kg yet after 3 years of training for the budokai he struggled with 22kg boots.

we know toriyama so long now yet ppl still dont understand how he works.
explantions about this character and that thing he does good most of the time but when he steps into the numbers for his chars area he beginns to fuck up.

You're forgetting that each limb has to support the weight individually rather than his whole body supporting the weight. You wouldn't necessarily see someone curling a 75 lbs weight when they can benchpress 250 lbs. There are some weight training sites that suggest that your curling should be 30% of your deadlift. So if you manage 721 lbs in a deadlift you're only going to be able to curl 216 lbs. That's assuming you have the correct muscles for the lift also, it's going to vary. Not all muscles are trained equally when you're using certain lifting techniques.

[LowRyder2005]

About Golden Frieza the main point is that it may sound silly, but there are plenty of reasonable explanations for such an obscene increase in power. Note, I didn't like the whole concept behind RoF one bit and I still do, sounded and still sounds like awful fanfiction.

However...

* Frieza didn't have any reason to train before as long as he was the strongest in the universe at that point.
* Frieza's physiology, according to Toriyama's point-of-view, makes him a freak of nature.
* Frieza couldn't tap fully into his hidden potential in a cybernetic body or just overestimated his abilities.

Let's just be happy that everything about the training wasn't directly shown to the viewers/readers.
I personally like to think that Frieza resorted to something peculiar to boost his power and not just him doing squats for four months. There could have been something akin to a ROSAT somewhere in the universe, or some other deus ex machina Frieza could've known about.

Moreover, I like the fact that all three DBZ main baddies are, most likely, equally frightful by now:

Frieza: alien-freak with insane gains.
Cell: has Frieza's and Saiyan's genes. Could probably get as strong as Frieza if he wanted.
Buu: can absorb anyone to get stronger and his absorptions are almost unescapable.

Interestingly, all three are are still more interesting than Beerus himself, who just happens to be like "oh, gee, I'm uber-powerful because I happen to be".

[Tsufuru]

akira toriyama's numbers only make sense when he talks about distances and such and thats cuz we cant know if they are true or not.

he was the one who made kid krillin casualy training with 40kg yet after 3 years of training for the budokai he struggled with 22kg boots.

we know toriyama so long now yet ppl still dont understand how he works.
explantions about this character and that thing he does good most of the time but when he steps into the numbers for his chars area he beginns to fuck up.

You're forgetting that each limb has to support the weight individually rather than his whole body supporting the weight. You wouldn't necessarily see someone curling a 75 lbs weight when they can benchpress 250 lbs. There are some weight training sites that suggest that your curling should be 30% of your deadlift. So if you manage 721 lbs in a deadlift you're only going to be able to curl 216 lbs. That's assuming you have the correct muscles for the lift also, it's going to vary. Not all muscles are trained equally when you're using certain lifting techniques.

i understand but,
krillin could barely walk with them.
he literly acted like a normal human would act with 22kg shoes.

[Hitiro]

[i understand but,
krillin could barely walk with them.
he literly acted like a normal human would act with 22kg shoes.

Maybe in the anime, I honestly don't remember. But in the manga all he does is wear them. We don't see him try to walk in them. And to be fair I doubt a regular human could walk with them on anyway.

[Pantalones]

Moreover, I like the fact that all three DBZ main baddies are, most likely, equally frightful by now:

Freeza: alien-freak with insane gains.
Cell: has Freeza's and Saiyan's genes. Could probably get as strong as Freeza if he wanted.
Buu: can absorb anyone to get stronger and his absorptions are almost unescapable.

Interestingly, all three are are still more interesting than Beerus himself, who just happens to be like "oh, gee, I'm uber-powerful because I happen to be".

It's more like "I'm uber-powerful because I've been training with the greatest master in the universe for at least 75 million years," considering that Beerus was apparently the one who sealed the old Kaioshin in the Z-Sword and the old Kaioshin described him as "not as bad as Buu" at the time, in a way that could be implying that he wasn't as powerful or as much of a threat or could just be a "well, at least he wasn't pure evil like Buu is" kind of thing.
Beerus is basically what you'd get if someone like Goku, who cares most about fighting and eating, got the chance to train and grow stronger pretty much forever rather than getting old and dying after living a relatively ordinary near-human-like lifespan.

So pretty much the exact opposite of "I'm uber-powerful because I happen to be," which is closer to Freeza's thing -- Beerus presumably had to train (for a loooooong time) to get as freakishly strong as he is now, rather than having hundred-millions or even billions handed to him on a platter like Freeza, Cell, and Buu all had.