Cell after Freeza's training regimen

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by soduh2 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:58 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:And that turned to out to be false, as Cell, much Piccolo, really did need his head to stay intact to regenerate.
Cell needed the nucleus thing to Regenerate (which was combined with the Zenkai). Also his head was blown off by the IT/Kamehameha combo and he still regenerated. I'd say that points to "better than Piccolo" evidence on that front.
I don't see how he can reach a level above SSJ3 through training alone. I mean, becoming a SSJ3 was already beyond pushing it for Goku.
Since we're talking about modern Dragon Ball feats, Vegeta technically temporarily surpassed a Super Saiyan 3 enough to draw blood from Beerus (not a big fan of this feat, but still.)

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:48 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: I don't see how he can reach a level above SSJ3 through training alone. I mean, becoming a SSJ3 was already beyond pushing it for Goku.
Naturally, his potential shown is attributed to the saiyan genes: he never trains! He reached a SSJ2 level thanks to zenkai alone. Zenkai + SSJ transformations don't really require any sort of training when your power level is already immense and your combat skills are top tier.

Obviously, this is all speculation, but it makes sense that a fighter billed as "perfect" would, at the very least, be above Frieza.
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by supercat » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:41 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:What I'm getting at is that Freeza's status was already cheapened once before, so it's not really much of an excuse for Cell not attaining a greater power. This prodigy nonsense wasn't a thing back then, but Freeza was still considered the most powerful being in the universe. In the end of the day, a Earthling created cyborgs stronger than the strongest beings in the known universe. By modern DBZ logic, no android would be able to reach the level of Freeza's potential. However, Cell very likely can. The entire purpose of his existence is to be the perfect fighter. His regeneration is far greater than any Namekian's, despite only having Piccolo's cells. He's able to rapidly attain SSJ levels without ever training, even if they are a tad weaker than the authentic deal. He possesses zenkai. He can breathe in space. With training, his potential is an endless abyss. Unfortunately, his arrogance is his biggest weakness, which would prevent him from exercising because he already considers himself perfect.

As for Broly, I might have jumped the gun there. I forget how ludicrous SSJG is, and how Golden Freeza was somehow able to attain an equal power just by training.
Whether the whole concept of Frieza being a prodigy existed or not, the point is, its introduction was a major turning point in a number of different ways. I personally feel enabling guys like Gero and Cell to casually toy around with such a concept in some lab is not only redundant, but also a great way to ruin the very thing that helped an iconic character reemerge.

Even if Cell did posses the cells of Frieza, Piccolo, and the Saiyans, doesn't mean he has the genuine traits that are exclusive to them encoded in his DNA. How do we even know it's Frieza's cells that fueled his ability to hit SSGSS tier in four months? It could have been something beyond his genetic makeup that he alone had the privilege of possessing for some unknown reason.

Having the Saiyan's Zenkais, Piccolo's regeneration, and Frieza's durability may be extraordinary assets, but I feel there's something deeper necessitated to earn the rightful spot as one of the top fighters in the series.

I'd prefer if Cell didn't make a return, unless it's a flashback or some sort of cameo where he gets trumped as badly as he did against Paikuhan and Kid Goku. The only past villain that I could envision reclaiming a spot of power is Majin Buu or someone else in Frieza's family.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:04 pm

supercat wrote:
Even if Cell did posses the cells of Freeza, Piccolo, and the Saiyans, doesn't mean he has the genuine traits that are exclusive to them encoded in his DNA. How do we even know it's Freeza's cells that fueled his ability to hit SSGSS tier in four months? It could have been something beyond his genetic makeup that he alone had the privilege of possessing for some unknown reason.

Having the Saiyan's Zenkais, Piccolo's regeneration, and Freeza's durability may be extraordinary assets, but I feel there's something deeper necessitated to earn the rightful spot as one of the top fighters in the series.
If its not genetics or magic or god power then what else is there? If it's some unknown aspect of Ki then I think Cell would be much better suited to it. Freeza was so ignorant of Ki that he couldn't even sense it, while Cell was skilled enough to learn Instant Transmission immediately after regenerating.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:49 pm

supercat wrote: I personally feel enabling guys like Gero and Cell to casually toy around with such a concept in some lab is not only redundant, but also a great way to ruin the very thing that helped an iconic character reemerge.
To be fair, it was a terrible concept to begin with. =P

Anyways, even though I do see Cell having that potential, I wouldn't want him to return, train, and become Super Mega Ultra Cell either. That really is redundant. I'd personally want a different Cell (i.e. different character) with a distinctive yet familiar design to appear if they went down that route, such as present Cell, who may have managed to regenerate after being "killed" by Krillin and Trunks, and continue obtaining the "cells" of various other fighters. That, or be saved and preserved by someone else, such as Towa. I really like the idea of Cell-X, though I'd prefer to see all of this in a Time Patrol spin-off over Super.
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by supercat » Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:35 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
supercat wrote:
Even if Cell did posses the cells of Freeza, Piccolo, and the Saiyans, doesn't mean he has the genuine traits that are exclusive to them encoded in his DNA. How do we even know it's Freeza's cells that fueled his ability to hit SSGSS tier in four months? It could have been something beyond his genetic makeup that he alone had the privilege of possessing for some unknown reason.

Having the Saiyan's Zenkais, Piccolo's regeneration, and Freeza's durability may be extraordinary assets, but I feel there's something deeper necessitated to earn the rightful spot as one of the top fighters in the series.
If its not genetics or magic or god power then what else is there? If it's some unknown aspect of Ki then I think Cell would be much better suited to it. Freeza was so ignorant of Ki that he couldn't even sense it, while Cell was skilled enough to learn Instant Transmission immediately after regenerating.
The best out-of-universe answer: "Because he's Frieza."

As for in-universe, I don't know, I've always sort of compared it to how Ginyu inhabiting Goku's body didn't automatically grant him a power level of 180,000. Sounds a bit far-fetched, but much akin to how the former couldn't tap into the full extent of the latter's arsenal, despite possessing his DNA, I feel Cell wouldn't be able to indulge in all the luxuries of being Frieza, without actually being him.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
supercat wrote: I personally feel enabling guys like Gero and Cell to casually toy around with such a concept in some lab is not only redundant, but also a great way to ruin the very thing that helped an iconic character reemerge.
To be fair, it was a terrible concept to begin with. =P

Anyways, even though I do see Cell having that potential, I wouldn't want him to return, train, and become Super Mega Ultra Cell either. That really is redundant. I'd personally want a different Cell (i.e. different character) with a distinctive yet familiar design to appear if they went down that route, such as present Cell, who may have managed to regenerate after being "killed" by Krillin and Trunks, and continue obtaining the "cells" of various other fighters. That, or be saved and preserved by someone else, such as Towa. I really like the idea of Cell-X, though I'd prefer to see all of this in a Time Patrol spin-off over Super.
Yeah, that whole notion that present Cell still exists somewhere definitely holds some validity. If they could somehow manage to pull that off while dodging the nearly inevitable burdens of redundancy, I would be quite pleased. That said, I would expect a completely different design, powers, personality, etc. Basically an overhaul. Not sure if it would even be worth it at that point, as a makeover like that would only manage to sap the nostalgia (the main purpose of bringing back old characters) out of the concept itself.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:04 pm

I think it would be brilliant if somebody asked Toriyama this exact question. I'm against the idea of Cell inheriting whatever made Freeza a prodigy. There's good arguments for and against. I lean more against it, but who knows. :P

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Lord Frieza » Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:59 pm

While Cell may have the highest potential in cannon its not the highest in DB. That title should really go to Mira.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Sayo-chan » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:02 pm

Lord Frieza wrote:While Cell may have the highest potential in cannon its not the highest in DB. That title should really go to Mira.
Cell-X may or may not have a higher cap than Mira, given Towa's dedication to the project, but I'm unsure of where all that fits in the timline.
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by The Monkey King » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:38 pm

He'd make Whis his bitch :lol:

Imagine if he gave birth to a group of cell Jr's to perform the SSJG ritual of him (Jr's hearts are pure evil) on top of attaining a 'golden Cell' form and his equivalent to SSJ3

There it is, Cell strongest in the universe

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Doctor. » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:44 pm

The Monkey King wrote:He'd make Whis his bitch :lol:

Imagine if he gave birth to a group of cell Jr's to perform the SSJG ritual of him (Jr's hearts are pure evil) on top of attaining a 'golden Cell' form and his equivalent to SSJ3

There it is, Cell strongest in the universe
Who's to say the ritual would work? We don't know if the ritual works with "pure evil" people (the gang pondering about Vegeta being pure, in the good sense, implies it doen't) and we don't know if the Cell Jrs count as different people, separate from each-other or Cell.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Sayo-chan » Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:55 pm

Doctor. wrote:
The Monkey King wrote:He'd make Whis his bitch :lol:

Imagine if he gave birth to a group of cell Jr's to perform the SSJG ritual of him (Jr's hearts are pure evil) on top of attaining a 'golden Cell' form and his equivalent to SSJ3

There it is, Cell strongest in the universe
Who's to say the ritual would work? We don't know if the ritual works with "pure evil" people (the gang pondering about Vegeta being pure, in the good sense, implies it doen't) and we don't know if the Cell Jrs count as different people, separate from each-other or Cell.
To be fair, it may simply be that it all has to be one or the other. I also don't know how his kids wouldn't be counted as a separate from him.
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Doctor. » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:04 pm

Sayo-chan wrote:To be fair, it may simply be that it all has to be one or the other. I also don't know how his kids wouldn't be counted as a separate from him.
Supposedly Babidi and Bibidi are the same being, so I'm kinda suspicious about this.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Sayo-chan » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:10 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Sayo-chan wrote:To be fair, it may simply be that it all has to be one or the other. I also don't know how his kids wouldn't be counted as a separate from him.
Supposedly Babidi and Bibidi are the same being, so I'm kinda suspicious about this.
...Are they? Where's that from?
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:17 pm

Sayo-chan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Sayo-chan wrote:To be fair, it may simply be that it all has to be one or the other. I also don't know how his kids wouldn't be counted as a separate from him.
Supposedly Babidi and Bibidi are the same being, so I'm kinda suspicious about this.
...Are they? Where's that from?
A Toriyama tidbit(think it was the Twelve Buu questions he did in Sakyo Jump).

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:18 pm

Babidi was like a clone or something, according to Toriyama in an interview.
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Doctor. » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:30 pm

Sayo-chan wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Sayo-chan wrote:To be fair, it may simply be that it all has to be one or the other. I also don't know how his kids wouldn't be counted as a separate from him.
Supposedly Babidi and Bibidi are the same being, so I'm kinda suspicious about this.
...Are they? Where's that from?
Q6: How was Babidi born?
Toriyama: Bibidi split in two!
Rather than a child, he’s more like Bibidi’s doppelganger. He’d split up whenever there was anything difficult for just a single person to do. He could increase the number of doppelgangers even more, but his magical powers would weaken in proportion. Now that Bibidi is dead and Babidi has become the only one, he’s regained all the original magical power.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... uu-arc-05/

And seeing as how Babidi treats Bibidi as "father", you can see how I'm suspicious of whether or not the Cell Jrs are different beings or just weaker clones of Cell.

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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by Sayo-chan » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:34 pm

That's... odd. He refers to him as his father in the manga too, which doesn't make sense to me. The big difference here though, is that Cell's not splitting himself up, at least I don't see any indication of it. I do believe he's referred to as "giving birth" to the juniors, but I'm not sure where.
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Re: Cell after Freeza's training regimen

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:58 pm

Daizenshu #7's Technique Dictionary says "Birthing Cell Juniors" is Cell's version of the Namekian egg laying.
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